‘Why is the US bombing Iran?’ has got to be one of the most searched prompts on google these past few days. And the closest thing to a current answer you will find is “We attacked them because they were going to have nukes and then use them on us, it’s self-defense.” - There is a lack of evidence for this claim btw.
That is like as if you invade someone’s home, shoot and kill them and your defense in court for it is, “Your honour, I had to do it because I had suspicions they were going to adopt a guard dog and then use that guard dog to attack me while I was walking down the street!”
Blatant, mask-off imperialism. How anyone can continue to view America and Israel on the right side of history baffles me.
I mean they’ve painted Iran as evil for decades. The average person doesn’t put much thought into politics, let alone geopolitics, and just assume that yes Iran is evil and it’s ok to bomb them.
I don’t think the average person is that dumb
Dude. My goddamed brother. He proudly gets all his thoughts from the NY Times, and his main focus is on how evil the Iranian regime is, and how happy the people of Iran are to have their “oppressors” killed.
I’m sorry that your brother is so dumb then? This doesn’t do anything to make me change my mind lol.
The average person is extremely vulnerable to propaganda, and the US has mastered propaganda to such an extent, it’s impossible to avoid it, even as a communist.
It’s not that they’re dumb, there is a myriad of reasons as to why the average person is ignorant about Iran.
*We attacked them because they were going to have nukes and then use them on us, it’s self-defense." - There is a lack of evidence for this claim btw.
That is like as if you invade someone’s home, shoot and kill them and your defense in court for it is, “Your honour, I had to do it because I had suspicions they were going to adopt a guard dog and then use that guard dog to attack me while I was walking down the street!”*
This reminds me of when Varg Vikernes was convicted of killing Euronymous. He literally turned up at Euronymous’ flat, chased him with a knife and stabbed him 23 times. His defence was “Someone told me he was going to kidnap me, and torture me to death, so it was self defence!”
Well, never heard of this and that just sent me down a bit of a wikipedia rabbit hole lol. It’s an even more fitting simile to what is going in with US-Israel and Iran considering that this Varg guy is a far-right lunatic with weird religious beliefs.
If you’re interested, you should read the book Lords of Chaos.
Don’t forget the half-assed “Iran killed 80 million protestors and suddenly we care deeply about people protesting the government…in a country where we kill and maim protestors”
in a country where we kill and maim protestors
the US always did that, but also we made the extra effort to constantly remind everyone we kill and maim protestors in the last year.
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Absurd misreading. She is just pointing out the violence of ICE as evidence of US hypocrisy about killing and maiming protestors, and she said “in the last year,” which extends way beyond Renee Good’s killing.
how are you getting that from what Tabitha said? it seems like you are trying to pick a fight
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???
i suggest you read through the em/poc mega for some understanding
that has not been my experience
EDIT: apparently there is an ongoing argument I was totally unaware of, trying to catch up
EDIT2: okay apparently what I found was not about ICE even tangentially though, so I’m still kind of confused
“and that’s why we made sure to kill 150 school girls in our opening salvo”
Marco Rubio literally explained why the US attacked Iran. He said that Israel was gonna attack Iran, and Iran was gonna retaliate against Israel and US military bases. So the US had to attack Iran first. Because Israel was gonna attack them. And it was gonna make Iran mad. So the US had to attack it…. And ……. Yeah
Yeah bad luck we just happened to have that fleet over there
why did Iran build their country so close to all those US military bases?
What military bases? I don’t see any military bases
they’ve been refurbished recently
Logically, the real option would be to stop Israel then, so even that doesn’t hold up.
Israel found one of the lost scriptures and actually Iran was promised to them 3000 years ago. How convenient that it was actually in Netanyahu’s house the whole time!
They actually found it in Netanyahu’s restroom, reports say he actually pulled it out of his ass
I’m only surprised they aren’t using the Iran killing protesters line
Right? What was even the point of manufacturing that??
For bots/propagandists to use later.
Just like the excuse of well have you asked an Iranian if they want usa intervention before protesting???
How anyone can continue to view America and Israel on the right side of history baffles me.
by being white supremacist
American exceptionalism also does wonders.
well, aside from that lol
the other justifications are just euphemistic reformulations of white supremacy, like Rubio talking about “western civilization” or any of the “greatest country on Earth” shit
They used to say the enemy has WMDs, now they just say the enemy might get WMDs someday
If wanting nukes warrants an attack then, shucks, president xi I have been very very naughty.
Kidnapping maduro made the US-Israel coalition think they are invincible and can just do whatever.
They got high on “OPERATION EPIC FURRY” .
I believe you mean “Operation: Epstein’s Fury”
What was Epstein’s fursona, anyway?
Something from FNAF, apparently
nah, they have a very well oiled justification: iran is evil. that’s it. that’s ultimately what it all boils down to.
Can’t even claim to bring democracy to Iran, their most likely candidate is the fucking Shah
Ironically my friend misspoke the other day and told me that Israel just killed the Shah of Iran. The times have been so nuts that I didn’t even assume they were mistaken and mentally spun out trying to come up with a reason why Israel and America would kill both the ayetullah and the shah on the same day.
yeah, cuck schumer said some shit earlier about iran being america’s oldest enemy. scolding trump for not having a public debate about doing the baby killing but implicitly agreeing with the principle of the thing. classic democrat shit.
iran being america’s oldest enemy
and that’s not even true, Korea and Cuba have longer been thorns in the side of the empire.
I think history is vibes based now. I’ve been noticing a lot of libs getting their order of events conveniently confused in screenshots when they’re arguing with posters who go teaching marxism to the rest of lemmy.
That might work on some of the smooth-brain, diehard MAGA cultists but it is not even close enough to convince the general public in the US and internationally.
eh, the rest of the west will both sides a bit and then fall in line. like this: “yes, this was poorly thought out and congress didnt approve it, but i’m glad we’re bombing iran, they’re evil”
and then years later they’ll say it was stupid and wrong while they do nothing about the current atrocity.
and say “yes the war was bad, but the Ayatollah was evil!”
case in point: https://hexbear.net/post/7828803
second time as a farce because it’s wild how they don’t see it coming.
I really don’t think the majority of the working class are THIS gullible, surely, right? Right??
this guy looks scary!
“Well-oiled” 😏
Manicheanism alive and well in the 21st century :augustine-shining:
Iran was promised to Israel 3,000 years ago
Akshually, Iran was already several millennia old when that promise was made to the kingdom of Israel.
Thankfully, Iran will be around long after Israel has been dissolved. 3000 years later, people will be talking about how Iran made a promise 3000 years ago that they called “the True Promise” and started the collapse of the Israeli apartheid settler colonial state
They keep repeating shit about being at war with them for 47 years or whatever. They’re so halfassing it.
The shorthand I always use is that they attacked Iran because they’re bored. I haven’t tried it because I’ve really disengaged from arguing. But I think, if someone engages with the idea and tries to explain a justification, you could get a lot of frustration and onlooker approval by doubling down on “it’s only happening now because Epstein died and they have nothing to do.”
I think boredom is part of it, before invading Venezuela, Trump was all bark, no bite, sat in charge of a dying empire and looked miserable. Now he can at least say that he is doing something I guess. But he is still in charge of a dying empire and miserable lol.
The dying empire is alternating years between imperialism and imperial boomerang. 2027 will be back to boomerang.
I don’t think they did it to honor Trump’s good friend Epstein, it’s probably just a reminder that they’re running out of time (because Trump is getting old, not because the democrats will do anything about it).
the democrats will run in the midterms on how they can bomb schoolchildren better and more efficiently than trump did
It’ll be “Iran is bad and evil, and obviously we could not allow them to acquire a nuke, but we care about human life and blowing up 165 little girls is an atrocity, which is why under my administration we will only be killing their parents”
Iran is bad and evil, and obviously we could not allow them to acquire a nuke
If anyone tries this on me, my response will be “If Iran had nukes, those schoolgirls would still be alive”
(Based on arguments I’ve had with supposed ‘bleeding heart lefty’ Zionists)
A large number of people would then counter with ‘those girls would be alive but then Israel would be a smoking radioactive crater’. They simply don’t ‘value’ (or consider, for that matter) non-white people. The calculus here is 1 Israeli > any number of non-Israelis.
You can’t argue or counter argue a liberal into the correct position, it just throws their white supremacy into stark relief.
That being said, I think it could be a useful counter to some people, but yeah not a silver bullet retort, if that makes sense.
‘those girls would be alive but then Israel would be a smoking radioactive crater’
those girls would be alive but then Israel would be a smoking radioactive crater
Blatant, mask-off imperialism.
Honestly I don’t even know what the imperialist reason for this war is.
iran’s the last major country standing in the way of total western domination of the middle east. it’s also the one that got away.
Because of oil, other crucial resources and the mere fact that Iran exists too close to Israel while being anti-imperialist & pro-Palestine is my understanding.
War is good for american arms manufacturers, so it’s always a good idea, capital-wise. Also, when oil prices go up oil companies can squeeze in more profits. There are also other strategic anti-China reasons for wanted to destabilize Iran, but it doesn’t seem like anything other than short term thinking is driving this decision making
After witnessing what Iran is doing to Israel and US, I don’t think anyone in the US administration would be stupid enough to pick a fight with China.
I don’t think even the US at its absolute military prime can win a war of attrition against current China. China’s production base is literally just leagues ahead of anything thr world has ever seen. They’re not even in a war time production mode and still out producing the fuck out of NATO combined. Imagine what they can do if they are in a war.
Their current line seems to be that “Iran has been at war with us for 47 years” and also that somehow they were going to reach a critical mass of missiles and become too powerful (Rubio said this, I think)
Might doesn’t need to make right. Might makes right irrelevant
The clearest statement of a justification I saw was (paraphrased, but logic intact) “Iran was going to resume moving towards the brink of developing nukes” which is so limp and passively worded that it doesn’t even pretend there was any immediate urgency. I forget which politician made that particular statement but it was so fucking flaccid I laughed.
Yeah, this is exactly my point hahaha, they have next to nothing to convince people they were in the right to do this. Of course us leftists know they had no right by default but the general public in the imperial core are not going to be able to support this by this ‘but but they were almost going to kind of possibly have nukes in the near future maybe!’ argument alone.
Yeah. Combined with how flatfooted they were caught by the retaliation things sure seem to be absolutely peak circus right now.
Given how easy it is to whip the public into a blood frenzy its a wonder that they haven’t even tried.
Amateurs.
I’ll grant them that it does make it hard to predict what unhinged decision they’ll make next though.
Given how easy it is to whip the public into a blood frenzy its a wonder that they haven’t even tried.
it’s interesting to have the comparison between now and 2001-2003. somebody better at sociology than me could probably draw some conclusions
Yeah I was musing on that.
It also occurred to me that the old heads who had experience with that kind of thing and with running major operations in general have probably either retired, been moved out as “deep state bureaucrats” or otherwise left because they were liberal true believers with something like a conscience. Its been a pretty long war of attrition when you add the first trump term etc.
There’s also been a pattern where overseas ops haven’t been announced in advance and the message has been that it would remove the element of surprise. Also that the media is in cahoots with the enemy. So, maybe, they’re trying to be unusually tight with their opsec, best they know how. Especially after earlier embarrassments. (edit: I hate to say it but, if they really are playing for keeps, I think this is the most likely explanation.)
