purpleworm [none/use name]

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Cake day: June 16th, 2025

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  • I think, while we can obviously extract a political significance from anything, part of the issue here is that Stoicism isn’t a political philosophy in the normal sense of the term, and even in what I read of Seneca he’s mostly doing self-help epistolaries like how Aurelius is doing self-help notes. I think, as an ethical philosophy, it’s a matter of interpretation rather than explicit doctrine what the politics of Stoicism is, and I don’t see there being any issue with a progressive interpretation of its values. We’ve seen many times people say that it directs people to merely cope with their class position, but is that true? Epictetus, who would have been regarded by Seneca and Aurelius as the Greek father of Roman Stoicism, was still born a slave and did not by any means suggest that people should remain where they are, and indeed discusses quite a lot about improving oneself and at least attempting to become something great, along with what we’ve discussed about being in cooperation with others, and Seneca for example is very clear that becoming a good person is at odds with politicking and chasing riches and status (despite he himself doing this).



  • First of all, yes it absolutely does matter, because there are fundamental failures on the part of western economists to understand elements of their field with serious social consequences (see the second quote for an example), and if these are the only real voice, what the hell can you do?

    But second, and I probably should have emphasized this more, as much as I don’t like that Marxism is gone from Chinese economic study, a worse element is that those politicians you mention are also plainly not Marxists and are debating, again, mainly in terms of western economics. The National People’s Congress is a bunch of liberals (not all created equal, mind you) who are debating policy on western economic, nationalist terms rather than Marxist[, nationalist] ones. That’s part of why I suggested looking at Qiushi more, because the government really does not hide this, it just also uses the terms “socialism” and sometimes “Marxism” here and there. Probably the most effort that I’ve seen them put into red-washing was when I was reading a debate from ~2006 where someone suggests that “risk-labor” must be added to the LTV, with their meaning being identical to how the western bourgeoisie justify their wealth by citing “risk.” I don’t think that’s really representative of the contemporary discourse, but that’s mainly because it acknowledges substance from Marx to make its liberal point instead of just making its liberal point directly.


  • Christianity and Stoicism eventually formed a significant connection, “Christian Stoicism” is a thing and the most famous example is probably Boethius, but I am not sure that it’s really that important to Christianity on a fundamental level and, furthermore, Stoicism does not ascribe much power at all to individuals but does identify common interest as being a major priority, and this also appears repeatedly in Aurelius’s Meditations, where he continuously coaches himself to not squabble with people because they (inclusive) must all work together.