Rocinante! Can’t believe I remembered that. That book is a hoot.
horsey mchorseyton
Rocinante and the only reason I know is because of The Expanse.
Shame! (bling)
I love that the guys say something like “it means war horse”. Rocinante is a word play with “Rocin antes”. Rocin being an old weak horse unfit for serious work and. ‘antes’ is the spanish word for ‘before’.
So it translates to “Prenag”? I love it.
americans wrote it. it has to be ‘bad ass’.
americans can’t understand irony. too dumb.
From the book:
Holden punched the comm system on the wall. “Well, crew, welcome aboard the gas freighter Rocinante.”
“What does that name even mean?” Naomi said after he let go of the comm button.
“It means we need to go find some windmills,” Holden said over his shoulder as he headed to the lift.
James Holden is a very Don Quixote-like character. Try harder.
they are talking about the TV show.
try harder.
the book sucked balls anyway. I read it. TV show cut out all the whiny young adult self-reflect bullshit that filled like 40% of the pages and was far superior. sci-fi doesn’t need anymore whiny protagonists, save that for anime.
You seem really mad at the world
Edit: You know it’s a 9 book series, right? And Holden is supposed to be a joke?
Yeah, i read 2 of the books and had the 3rd purchases before I gave up, because it was so stupid and dumb. felt like I was reading teenage fan fiction of the tv show.
I’m mad at stupid bullshit, and the world consists of a lot of stupid bullshit and stupid bullshit people and their celebrations of how stupid and bullshitty they are.
Don Quixote however, is fantastic. But people who like the expanse are almost never going to read a legit serious novel like that, because it would be too hard for them. Like remembering the name of the horse was for Anon.
I hope one day you’re able to find out what’s making you so angry. I went through a phase of taking myself too seriously, and only reading “serious” literature, only listening to music that was “pure” enough, etc… Then I figured out that sometimes you mix a little comfort food into your diet of fine dining, and life gets a little brighter. It’s not about stopping being critical, but looking at the why and what that criticism covers.
Corporate bullshit sucks, and always will. But a series of books written by a couple of (previously) nobodies just seems like a strange target for this much ire. Totally fine if its not your jam, though.
I never made this connection but now I imagine this as Holden being self-aware / self-critical.
I only know it because it’s the name of my best friends horse. He played the violin at our wedding
What a talented horse
Smart horse
One of my favorite fan theories is that the authors did not name the ship after the horse from don quixote directly. There is a Rush song called Cygnus X-1 that’s basically a space opera and the ship in that song is called the Rocinate, and one of the authors of The Expanse is a huge rush fan. So in my mind that is where the ships name comes from.
Wasn’t the expanse loosely based on a play by post RPG game the author was running? Maybe the name came from that? Isn’t that also why Shed was killed off, the player couldn’t play anymore.
For me it’s because of One Piece
For me it’s “An Animated Description of Mr. Maps” by The Books.
I only know it because of Limbus Company XD
What about John Steinbeck? Travels with Charley.
Feel this in my bones. I enjoy reading books, but they go down the memory hole fast for me, especially names.
if you are like Anon it’s because you read too fast. slow the fuck down and maybe you’d remember relevant details.
I have a strong case of the "My eyes were moving correctly but i was thinking about lunch for the last 3 paragraphs"es
finally, an honest bloke appears.
That’s a shitty question though. Totally irrelevant to the meat of the story, and definitely not a proof someone read the whole thing and thought about it.
Welcome to the school system
Questions like that are good to know if somebody read the thing. You don’t get details in resumes.
No, it isn’t.
Most people will not retain the name of an animal that doesn’t speak. The horse has zero impact on the story, and only serves as a piece of Quixote’ personality signifiers
I would say Rocinante helps early in the story, with understanding the depth of Quixote’s delusion.
Whilst in reality Rocinante is an old workhorse; in the delusion of Don Quixote, Rocinante is a grand charger fit for a knight of the highest order.
Helping to illustrate the core of the story; Don Quixote is applying a veneer of importance and significance over the top of reality. Rocinante is a reflection of the Don himself.
I agree with the role Rocinante plays for sure.
I just don’t think that makes the name of the horse a good question. It’s like asking the name of John Wick’s dog. The whole movie hinges on the dog, but what name it has is irrelevant.
The point of reading something like Don Quixote isn’t the names. Even Pancho’s name is barely important. Hell, I’d even argue that the fact we’re talking about Don Quixote rather than Alonso Quixano even illustrates that names aren’t exactly the prime bit of information that matters.
Now, it is hard to discuss the story without factoring in name changes. Aldonza/Dulcinea in specific is maybe the biggest symbol of what the Don is experiencing, and the underlying theme of the story. But the specific names? It’s just a bad question for a high school English teacher to ask a student.
My reasoning is that, no matter what else is retained, names only serve as a point of reference in damn near all literature. When an early exposure to old school, classical literature is happening, the student is going to already be learning three or four things at once, and memorizing the name of a non dialogue character doesn’t serve do achieve that learning, or even test how much that student retained.
You’ve got them trying to learn how to read critically, how to read archaic styles, how to retain important factors, and how to express what they’ve picked up. The name of an animal that’s essentially stage dressing akin to the sword or armor? That’s entirely the wrong question.
What would be a good one is, “what does Quixote’s horse symbolize?” Or even, “what do you think about his horse?”. Both would get the student thinking rather than trying to just pull up a word that’s arbitrary.
you entirely pissed the point of the post.
anon is an idiot. he reads this book in two days, and knows nothing about it. he was not reading critically, he was blasting through each page and only ‘reading’ to say he read the novel to impress the teacher, and then he’s so dumb he can’t even remember the name of the horse.
you call it ‘abitrary’ I call it ‘how can you do algebra if you can’t do arithmetic’.
What’s so wrong with our school system, is that we no longer teach fundamentals, and we wonder why kids can’t do advanced work. knowing what the horse symbolizes requires know it’s fucking name.
if anything, you, to me, sound like a result of our f’ed up education system in that you worry about high-minded bullshit and think that somehow it’s more important than BASIC FACTS. then you probably bemoan how nobody knows facts anymore and just argues their feelings… yeah because if you don’t know facts of the novel all you have to argue about is your feelings.
have you ever taught? what if a student wrote an answer about chinese mythology in reply to a spanish novel? would that be a relevant answer? in today’s school system, sadly, it would, because we can’t ‘punish children’ or something.
Is everyone from .world an asshole today, or is it just you?
don’t worry. i blocked posts from sh.itjust.works, because your instance is full of insane people. too bad i .world doesn’t allow me to automatically block all the users from there.
i lived in Canada for 3 years. never ceased to amaze me how many assholes I met over there were from quebec/ontario. almost as if… a instance hosted there would be full of the very same type of ‘i know better than you’ type of folks.
the albertans were insane, but they were at least not full of themselves. they were very chill when they were talking about their craziness.
What would be a good one is, “what does Quixote’s horse symbolize?” Or even, “what do you think about his horse?”. Both would get the student thinking rather than trying to just pull up a word that’s arbitrary.
That is a great point.
Significantly better questions; than a name.
For me, the problem with “Rocinante” is I don’t know how to pronounce it. So, while reading, I’d skip past it, recognizing that it’s the horse, but not parsing it as a word.
If asked that question, I’d need to explain that, but I’d stumble over the word.
If a book has too many oddly (to me) spelled names, I’ll skip it for this reason. Apostrophes in the middle and no vowels, and I’m not going to read your book.
For me, the problem with “Rocinante” is I don’t know how to pronounce it.
If you’re using a European language, you’re pronouncing it correctly, or close enough.
If your only contact with English is the written word, I guess it depends on what languages you’re familiar with. If you’re using AI / translation software, just ask it to read it to you. Maybe it’ll get it right. Or not. Who can tell with those things.
Spanish is incredibly easy to pronounce though? There are only a couple things different than English and none of those differences are relevant for Rocinante. It’s also consistent in pronunciation, unlike English.
what’s it like being a stubborn dumbass?
Ro Cin An Te
Roh sin ahn the
Rocinante
Why would you make it a ‘th’ at the end??
Autocorrect is a motherfucker
Barthelona.
The weird ‘th’ handling of ‘c’ isn’t just a Catalan thing? Is that all of Spain? I know I’m biased as a North American, but preference for Mexican Spanish.
that is why the Barthelona thing is so pedantic. In Catalan is pronounced more like “barsalona”
The th pronunciation is Spanish.
In Catalan c before e or i is pronounced like a hard s.
Oh, thanks for the clarification!
I have no idea about ‘c’ becoming ‘th’. I was referring to the ‘t’ at the end that the above comment made ‘the’ when breaking it down, which they have mentioned in a reply was an auto-correct error.
The Spanish I know is not generally NA influenced.
Ah, I guess they had fixed the autocorrect by the time I saw it.
Apparently it is most, but not quite all, of of Spain that does the ‘th’ business… Which makes me wonder if the horse’s name should use the ‘th’ sound: https://youtube.com/shorts/dxBoVaOuw4Q?is=uFdY_uC6q6AjdcDF
It’s the Spaniard pronunciation. Virtually everyone else would pronounce it as “see”.
it’s not hard, they are just american.
I mean, me too…
Thin, not sin.
Ro as in rod. Thin as in, well, thin. An as in ant. Te as in tent.
Latin American Spanish might disagree so both sin and thin pass. Book came out before the languages split after all.
So you are saying it’s
raa - thin - an - teh??That’s wild… I’m convinced you are not pronouncing ‘ant’ or ‘tent’ “correctly” for those to be your suggestions…
They’re right, afaik. An as in land, te as in test.
Hm… Ro as in Ross…? The rest is the correct pronunciation, yes.
Maybe, I don’t know… an as in anvil and te as in tenant…? English, being several unrelated languages in a trenchcoat, can be a bit weird, and pronunciation varies excessively with dialects…
The vowels in Castilian (aka Spanish outside of Spain and other Castilian speaking countries) are very simple, five vowels, five sounds, pronounced more or less as they would have been in Latin.
C is pronounced like a k or a hard z, never as an s (except in some dialects).
Rocinante. From rocín and antes, for he was a rocín (old horse) before being Quijote’s steed (also during, but the old man wasn’t all there).
Rocinante
That’s one badass horse right there
It’s pronounced legitimate salvage
I only know this because of The Expanse.
Beltalowda!
Hhnnggg the cultural depiction of belters is the greatest in any scifi everAAAAAAHHHH
I only know the name of the ship from Moby Dick from MGS V.
The guy from One Piece?
Well duh, it’s a book about Doflamingo after all.
I never read the book, and I knew this somehow
On pizza?
only remember the name because of The Expanse
But if you pronounce it like the show, every Spanish speaker has the right to whoop your ass just once
when i moved to austin and everyone was pronouncing guadalupe “guadaloop” and looking at me funny for pronouncing it guadalupe, i got murder eyes for like a month.
I’m going to need reports on how you say Koenig and Mueller too. As you are quite aware, moving to Austin requires multi-factor identification. /s
Kernig and Myooler. Isn’t that how everyone pronounces those?
the german way unless it’s an american name, in which case i gotta get damn verification
I’m sorry sir, but you’re going to have to move. /s
Kay-nig
Muh-ler
Guada-loopThey’re old codes, but they still check out.
i did move, i’ve been back in california for over a decade
i lived in a since-gentrified apartment complex on may-ner down from the amy’s
like fuck texas, that one was English
and i refuse to pronounce it Kaynig. Kenig is the furthest i’ll go
you have a favorite out in Lockhart?
Thank you for visiting Austin, the live music capital of the world. We apologize if the rest of Texas disturbed you during your stay, and we thank you for your patience with this matter as we are still researching dimensional translocation possibilities. As you are a valued Californian, we would like to ask you to please take 5 minutes out of your day to go online and recall all the robotaxi’s y’all sent us. Keep it weird, and come back soon.
~Come back soon is an invitation for a vacation not to exceed two weeks. Buying real estate to move your podcast offices to is strictly prohibited. Fans of Joe Rogan’s comedy are discouraged to apply.~
laughs in Baaathelona
If that principle applied throughout history, anglophones would have evolved either an armored ass or no ass at all. I believe they are pathologically incapable of grasping the phonology of foreign languages. Just ask any native English speaker the name of the Soviet Union’s general secretary that succeeded Stalin and preceded Brezhnev… realistically, nine out of ten will have no idea, and the remaining one will say he was some “cruise chef”.
i’m an anglophone that has studied 6 languages.
we’re arrogant idiots who think foreign languages don’t exist, and shouldn’t exist if they are hard to pronounce. we’d rather make fun of them for being ‘weird’ than actually… learn and appreciate them.
but i at the same time most every country phonetized foreign names to make them pronounceable in the native language. Russians change the pronunciation/spelling of many foreign words to russify them.
As a linguaphile, I’ve always tried to pronounce words from other languages as correctly as possible. People tend to think that makes me weird.
Xenophobes think I’m being a snob, and “inclusive” people think I’m mocking the language or making some offensive joke or something. Literally the only people who don’t get upset about it are the ones who speak whatever language it is.
Literally the only people who don’t get upset about it are the ones who speak whatever language it is.
It depends on the exact word and context, like if you go to Japan and say Hay mmmburrrgurrrr をいただきたいです, it sounds so bad.
I’m trying to figure out what that’s even supposed to say. “Mmmburrrgurrrr” doesn’t sound like any japanese words I know.
“Hay” I’m guessing is supposed to be “Hai,” although if you pronounce it like “hay” then you’re going to stand out as an ignorant foreigner.
As for 「おいただきたいです」、well that’s just phrased awkwardly. It sounds too formal and almost mocking. The issue isn’t pronouncing it correctly. It’s like saying 「申しわけありません」 when 「ごめんなさい」 would do.
My point wasn’t about phrasing things weird or being too formal, it was about pronunciation. Like saying 「ありがとうございます」 instead of “uhragado guhzaimasoo”
It’s over-emphasizing the non-japanese sounds in “hamburger”; the point is that there are rules for loan words in any language and it sounds awkward if you break them.
Oh, I thought we were talking about anglophones pronouncing non-english words, not the other way around.
Japanese gets a pass on its loanwords because the language doesn’t have the letters to pronounce a lot of words from other languages. It does the best it can. I don’t know many English speakers who pronounce Llewellyn the Welsh way…
But if you’re ordering a hamburger in Japan, there’s probably already something wrong with you anyway. Unless it’s at Gasto. In that case, enjoy your ハンバーグ.
Step 1: Seek to prove that anglophones can’t pronounce foreign words.
Step 2: Ask a history question that has less to do with pronunciation than it does with an awareness of political events that happened on the other side of the globe, likely before the respondent was born.
Step 3: Ignore that even the people who were alive in that time were likely only getting their pronunciation from whoever was anchoring the news and may be blameless for only hearing an incorrect pronunciation.
Step 4: Feel smug, I guess.
if you read don quixote in two days you’re a definitely a retard.
like going to France and ordering McDonalds.
fucking Americans.
The very first thing I’d do after stepping in a foreign country is try the fast food there. It’s fun to see different countries’ takes on American junk food. There will be plenty of time to try the local cuisine, but first, I want to see what it’s like to eat a McSpaghetti, or a Whopper with five patties and a bun made out of mozzarella sticks!
Did that in S China. McD’s servers a “Cup of Corn” (nibblets) as a side like french fries. Its wildly popular. Also they had Pineapple snack pies but they called them “Pine Pies”
My wife and I went to India with a mission to try as much different food as possible.
For the most part, India delivered but one day we decided to try a place that “Lonely Planet” recommended as the hot dining option for young people in the area. It turned out to be a Tex-Mex diner.
You know how people complain about American’s screwing up foreign (including Indian) food? India can give as good as it gets. We asked to get their most popular items and they were all huge misses. The quesadilla tasted like the chef had once seen a picture of a quesadilla and rolled with it.
yeah but the locals wouldn’t know the difference.
Most of them. I assume they also have some well-traveled food snobs that make fun of it when their friends suggest it.
"Man that Texmex joint sucks. You can only get authentic tortillas in Tijuana. "
sounds like a hobby.
Classy, I figure you can read the whole of Ulysses in total of 17 minutes?
Douche!
No dickwattles. 17 days. Reading should take time.
Idiots all over here being ‘hrr i cannon rememburrs the bookz i readz’ yeah, because you don’t actaully read, you just skim.
reading takes effort, and i understand most of you are unwilling to make an effort in anything other than calling shit fake and gay.
Anon feels like a dumbass because anon is a dumbass, and like every dumbass is butthurt someone pointed out how dumb they were. Rather than being like ‘hey maybe I should ahve paid attention to this book I read instead of being a retard’.
Sounds like a skill issue.
Technically, if you do that you’ll be doing the same as a lot of locals. People love their “Mac Do” (for some reason).
Immerse yourself in the local culture (and have a beer at the local Mc D, assuming that’s still a thing, I’m not really sure).
Again, american. French people eat there sometimes, doens’t mean they eat there all the time.
The point is americans go to another country to ‘expereince the culture’ and then systematically avoid doing so at all costs.
Just like anon tries to ‘read’ a 800 page novel by not actually reading it, and then gets called out by their teacher who knows anon is a tryhard who didn’t even know what the horse is called. sort of like saying you ran a marathon by running mile 1 and mile 25 and you road a car from mile 2 to mile 24. it’s totally the same thing as running 26 miles! right!
at least the lit teacher didn’t ask anon to blow him. if i’d been his teacher i would have, seen that anon is a useless idiot and that’s all he’d be good for in my class and i suppose the lit teacher only likes him because he’s pretty. maybe has a whole Death in Venice thing going for him.
fake: anon’s lit teacher liked him because he was a smarty
gay: anon’s teacher liked him because he was submissive dumb 'lil bitch
americans go to another country to ‘expereince the culture’
Eeeehhhh… More or less.
Anyway you can’t experience that much in the few days most US people have available. Remember that they have to go to London, Paris and possibly the Riviera, Rome, some place in Germany, and maybe two or three other places, all in the one or two weeks that they can spend in Europe before their boss requires their presence back behind their keyboard. It’s a vacation of sorts, but it’s also a game of tag.Faced with so many changing vistas, they are bound to give up and enter a Mc D at some point. You would do the same, except that when you go abroad, you can just stay somewhere for a month and actually see a country if you like (assuming you can afford to, but then, visiting Belgium is fine too). So anyway, what I mean is that you have to account for the culture shock, which exists for them, although I’m not sure visiting a foreign Mc D will attenuate that. Because they are probably way more foreign than they’ll likely expect.
No they don’t? What are you talking about?
That’s right, they don’t.
Same experience with a really old German book. He wanted to know the color of the hat one of the side characters was wearing. I had no clue, after investing so much time into trying to understand it. That kinda made me give up - why try to participate when the outcome is the same as if I didn’t?
this entire thread is full of dumb takes but this is one of the dumbest
Someone gets cynical and disillusioned of the school system, after their efforts amount to nothing, because of a bad teacher. How is that a dumb take?
because if one bad teacher ruined your entire education, you’re the idiot. likely a vastly emotionally immature one at that.
everyone has bad teachers dude. we also have good ones, and mediocre ones. smart and mature human beings… let it go. miserable stupid ones sit there and stew and are still angry 20 years later about that one embarrass moment… and also blame all their current ‘failures’ on it. ‘oh if only mr handface had not asked me that question in 10th grade English 20 years ago, i’d be a successful music producer!’ yeah… right.
but this is peak american entitlement. ‘one teacher was mean to me once and i hate school forever and ever’ like… i mean that’s who the american president is… so yeah peak american. we’re a culture of entitled whiny cunts who appreciate nothing an whine about everything and are so egotistical we can’t admit that maybe we were a bad student.
ironically… the teachers i liked best were the ones everyone else HATED. why… because they actaully wanted students to learn. The popular teachers people liked were the ‘fun’ ones who gave everyone As and never actually taught you anything… almost like children want their education to be junk food because it tastes better than broccoli.
if one bad teacher ruined your entire education, you’re the idiot
I sort of agree with this (with the exception of a teacher bullying someone), but I would not call a kid idiot, for that. Even a lot of adults cannot do that sort of self-reflection, it is unreasonable to expect it from an immature child. That is one reason, why teachers bear such huge responsibility, as to a kid even a minor thing can be world-shattering. They do not yet have the life experience, to know or understand better, and that is not them being idiots, but being children.
Also, that was not really what the original comment even said. It sounds very reasonable, to feel like giving up, after a bad experience like that. But they make no claims, that it had ruined their whole education.(About the USA’s school system or cultural things around that, I cannot comment, since as someone from the other side of the ocean, I have no fucking clue how it really is.)
the reason our education system is so awful is our expectations of children are so low. Americans have bought into this narrative that children are ultra fragile and well that’s what we have made them. it’s not the teacher’s job to raise children, it’s the parents. the teachers job is to teach them.
other countries don’t treat their children this way, and shocker, their children are far more resilient and self-reliant. we teach our children to be helpless, and we end up with helpless adults who never mature. maturity is learning from your mistakes, not feeling forever defined by them.
the original comment was a dumbass being a dumbass and being butt-hurt over his own stupidity. it’s all bullshit anyway, nobody who actually reads don Quixote reads it in two days. it’s a 1000 page dense novel. maybe you OP read Harry Potter 5, which is also 1000 pages, but it is so shallow you can read the whole thing in like 3-5 hours.
Wasn’t it a donkey? I think it was named Rocinante? Idk, I read it like 16 years ago.
Edit post-Wikipedia: it was a workhorse, not a donkey, but I nailed the name. I’ve wondered in the past if Geralt’s horse Roach in The Witcher was a nod to Rocinante
I for some reason thought Don Quixote rode a donkey too… Where’d that come from?
I think his “squire” had one, so maybe they get conflated XD
Sancho Panza rode the donkey, Dapple. Though Don Quixote does “ride” the donkey a few times. Rocinante is his usual mount.
Kind of, maybe? But probably not.
In the original, Geralt’s horse’s name is “Płotka” - has technically the same meaning as Roach (a small, cheap kind of fish), but the term is also sometimes used for easy, inconsequential and irrelevant things.
Good to know! It’d be a cool reference, but I guess it wouldn’t really fit with Geralt’s character. He’s pretty far off from Don Quixote XD
The names of the 3 musketeers regularly come up in crosswords and no matter how many times I see it I can’t remember one of the 4. There’s Porthos, Athos, and I believe D’Artagnan was the one who joined later. Doesn’t help that their names sound vaguely like the 3 fates: Atropos, Clotho, and Lachesis.
Aramis is the one you’re missing, and he’s also the one I always forget. I can remember porthos and athos because they sound similar, and d’artagnan was the name of the company my old job used for some supplies, but Aramis is too easy a name to forget.
Maybe both of you guys issue is that you think of Porthos first, Athos, Porthos, Aramis is burned in to my mind, never read any book about musketeers either and I am terrible with names
Anon should be disappointed in their teacher, honestly.
I read the book about a year ago and I recently I was trying to remember the name of the horse for some reason. I also completely blanked on it, and it took me a few minutes.
I’m pretty terrible at remembering details like that. My brain just stores things relatively, like ‘the main character’s brother’, even after reading his name a hundred times.
Anon should have just told his teacher that the horse (rocinante) is nothing compared to Sancho’s she-ass.
I never remember the author’s name. I have consistently gotten it wrong in nearly every quiz. Lol
Everyone knows him as Cervantes, even though his full name is Miguel de Cervantes. I live in Castilla-La Mancha and everywhere is Quijote… I even know a lady called Dulcinea… not a common name btw.
Edit. Just read this and sorry might have come across overly pedantic. I just got up and my brain is still toast.
Well there’s probably not a lot of other well-know people with the last name “(de) Cervantes”. Same in Germany, no one ever uses “Johann Wolfgang von Goethe”, it’s always just “Goethe”.
i remember it because of soulcalibur
Are we supposed to say “ask me a harder question” in this situation?
