What’s a little extra 5 or 10 mph on the clock?
I don’t, and even before I was on a ghost probation.
Long-Short: got a ticket, did a defensive driving course to have it not affect my driving record, I’m now on a ghost probation. There’s no checkups or anything, but if I get another traffic ticket within 3 months of completing that course it’s like a default “throw the book at them” stop.
I didn’t speed then, I don’t speed now, I just don’t want to be close to a cop let alone a legally permitted situation where not showing the utmost care, respect, and caution can trigger a qualified immunity action for something minor
In my US state of Texas, speed studies set the speed limit based on a 85th percentile rule. They assume that people will basically ignore the speed limit and drive the speed they feel is safe. That’s why we have highways with 85 mph speed limits.
https://www.txdot.gov/safety/driving-laws/speed-limits/speed-zone-studies.html
That’s not a bad strategy. Driving slowly on slow roads or in adverse conditions and fast on highways seems rational to me. What is the point of making a road that is specifically designed for high speed and then putting a limit on it? The speed limit is an incredibly blunt instrument for deterring bad driving, as if driving below the limit is always going to be the safest option. It also motivates law enforcement abuse. The vehicle-environment-driver complex is much more nuanced than a single variable threshold.
That’s always been my thoughts on the matter. Don’t enforce speed. Enforce proper lane usage and following distance.
That and modify the road, don’t expect all the drivers to change their subconscious behaviors
It can be as simple as paint - people will go the speed they feel is appropriate, threat of punishment won’t effectively change their behavior. If the road looks smaller than it is or seems to narrow around intersections, people just drive slower
Cheap, easy, science based.
What is the point of making a road that is specifically designed for high speed and then putting a limit on it?
Because once you get within an hour and a half of a major city, you’ve got hundreds of suburbs feeding into it with everyday commuters trying to drive along side people out there driving like it’s GTA.
The only places where it’s actually 85 are places where the air lift won’t make it to the hospital in time.
I’ve got my problems with Texas’ infrastructure but removing speed limits wouldn’t help.
I don’t think I’m autistic. But it tickles my brain that the speed limit is one USian law that is designed to NOT be followed literally.
If it were, it would be trivial to use automatic toll reader cameras to give everyone who speeds a ticket. They have a time stamp when you enter the toll road. They have a time stamp when you exit. They can calculate mathematically that if your average speed is higher than the limit, you broke the speed limit.
But they don’t do this, because society does NOT believe in following this specific law (speed limits)… because why exactly?
There is an unwritten rule in society that the speed limit law is not meant to be followed literally?
I hate it.
The other aspect is that we typically are against automated enforcement regardless of the law.
We typically want people to be in the loop. If there were more visible traffic cops, people tend to slow down to the limit.
Well if the limit was actually meant as a limit, they could at least send an automatic warning.
This seems to send the message that the speed limit isn’t a limit at all, it is just informational, and also an excuse for police to pull anyone over for any subjective reason.
Automated enforcement just invites cities to do extremely vile things like kill people by lowering yellow light durations.
Autonomous weapons go brrr
Another factor that hasn’t been mentioned yet is it gives cops pretty unilateral right to pull you over if they feel like it. IANAL, but in many places it’s illegal for a cop to pull you over just for “being suspicious”, but because of speeding and various other traffic laws on the books that are almost universally ignored, they can pull you over for speeding, then decide you seem suspicious and search your car, breathalyze you, etc.
Keep in mind police in the United States don’t have to prove someone was speeding. There is no photographic evidence or logged speed reading. If a cop says you were speeding, according to their “justice” system, you were speeding. End of story.
"You were going fifty-five in a fifty-fo’ "
They don’t do it because the U.S. has good standards for what is a crime.
For example cops can’t tailgate you then give you a ticket for speeding.
Additionally, doing this only on freeways would probably make the roads less safe as drivers would go faster on surface streets. Thr 65mph speed limit was set in the 1950s by 1950s white men for 1950s cars. Freeways are safer than surface streets by multiple factors of 10.
There’s lots and lots of laws like that
Like perjury. It’s almost never pursued, the judge will just order your testimony ignored
Or paying your taxes. You’re basically expected to do your best to cheat, especially if you’re a corporation
Yeah I’m trying to accept that there are laws like this :/
When I was 4, I asked to see the book of laws. You know, the thing that determines whether you live free or in prison, the things that lays out all the things you actually have to do. The absolute list of things that must be followed to exist within our society
I’m still more baffled than my parents were then that there is no such book, and that it is not a book all adults must obviously have simple and continued access to
A federal effort to just fucking count the number of federal laws in effect stopped well in the six digits before the effort was essentially declared impossible
You’re not coming to terms with anything yet. Your eyes have cracked open ever so slightly and you’re desperately trying to close them again
I speak this all without judgement in the nature of compassion and desire for understanding. I can put it more plainly but you’re approaching the truth on your own, and you will gain deeper understanding arriving to the obvious conclusions yourself
I had a political science professor who used to say that while all societies had a system of justice, that was the topic of the 200 level class, it was so difficult, and so we wouldn’t be talking about it in his 100 level international politics class.
I never took his 200 level class, and to this day I wonder…
If that happened people would avoid toll roads which means there won’t be enough toll income.
Or they could make the speed limit law an appropriate limit, rather than something everyone exceeds
There are plenty of stories in our folklore of times people sped 100+ just to get to the emergency room on time.
Should be a valid excuse for breaking the law!
Prima fascie.
No body is driving perfect, speedometers aren’t perfect, and such automatic devices aren’t perfect nor can they identify the driver yet. I believe they use these elsewhere like UK… But most likely have a bit of wiggle room
It may be necessary to speed up to avoid or pass something reasonably and ultimately the speed limit is so for most conditions. In a 70 it may be reasonable to do 80 on a clear, sunny day with minimal traffic. After all it’s still 70 at dark when your visibility is cut way back. Plus it can’t be a hard rule given weather conditions, traffic speed differentials, etc… 70 may be too fast or otherwise.
It’s not that big of a deal unless you’re the one driving too fast or slow relative the everyone else.
Not surprising. After living for ten years in the US, I would say that Americans are among the worst drivers in any developed country. Really awful behaviour all around.
Depends on where. I’m going the speed limit through town or less where there are people. It saves lives.
But highways are built for fast driving and cars continue to get safer and more performant. Fuck the speed limit set for 1970’s death traps and hasn’t changed.
The real problem as always is local roads designed like highways. Stroads seem to be one of the underrated evils of modern society
Cars might have gotten better, but a lot of highways haven’t been improved enough for those higher speeds. For example, there’s a lot of on ramps in older cities with very short merge zones, and you need to hammer the throttle and pray that there’s a spot for you by the time you hit the end.
This is especially true if the person in front of you refuses to accelerate to highway speeds to merge safely, simply hoping that people will be nice enough to let them in.
There’s one near me where I’ve almost been in accidents just about every time I use it.
Yep, lots of these where I live. My civic was a problem, but my Subaru had enough acceleration to make it easer. Now I have an EV and a habit of hanging back on the ramp since my EV will make the guy in front of me appear to be standing still
The speed limit has raised since those death machines… Specifically because it was lowered due to that oil crisis.
It quite literally is.
If you don’t keep up with traffic, people pass you, and that is much more dangerous than an extra 10mph
I’ve had people blow past me at like 20-30 over. Swerving all over through traffic. Only for me to pull up beside them at the stop light at the top of the exit ramp. Worth it. Not saying it’s always the case. But it’s funny af when it does.
That’s not relevant to this article.
Then people should stop passing, and realise an ekstra 5 mph isn’t going to get you to your destination any faster?
Good luck telling that to your average moron on the road
We don’t live in fantasy land where common sense exists and we have to work around that
Sure, but just because they are morons, doesn’t mean I have to drive faster than what I deem is safe.
The safest speed is nearly always the average speed of traffic, this is well studied…
Can’t argue with facts with someone that goes off feelings
That is true, but that doesn’t mean I feel safe driving as fast as other drivers. It doesn’t mean I feel confident in my ability to react in time, if something was to happen a few cars ahead. Is it statistically safest? Absolutely, but that doesn’t mean everyone is equally safe going that speed.
If you don’t feel confident driving the usual flow of traffic you shouldn’t be driving
So many times I’ve had to slam on brakes to let an idiot get back in their side after a pass because some slowpoke idiot is doing 60kmph on a 100kmph road and a whole column is passing them
If you don’t speed tf up you will get yourself or someone else killed
When you’re alone on the road drive whatever speed you like
We’re generally talking about people driving over the speedlimit on this post. Someone doing 60km/h in a 100 km/h zone isn’t the point of discussion. Someone driving 120 km/h in a 100 km/h zone is the problem. You can’t blame the people simply following the laws for the actions of people breaking the laws.
Yeah but if you’re the odd one out, you’re the problem.
If everyone is going too fast for you, you should use a slower road and not be a danger/impediment.
I think that’s a very backwards way of thinking about it. If you’re being safe, but a bunch of people are being unsafe, and bring your life in danger, that’s not you being a problem, that’s you being a victim.
If people start waving knives around at random, and telling you they’ll get closer to you, if you don’t also wave a knife around, then that’s a hostage situation, not people wanting you to be safe.
You’re not being safer by driving slower, your base premise is wrong
My base premise is faster drivers being the source of slower drivers being unsafe, not the other way around. Thus the slower drivers are the victims of this, and shouldn’t be blamed for driving slower, and definately shouldn’t be encouraged to driver faster, just because a bunch of assholes think they’re more important than everyone else.
They should be encouraged and enabled to not drive at all.
Slow drivers are a big reason why I want free and abundant public transportation.
“You made me do it!”
the real answer to question “why people speed” is someplace closer to “why was this neighbourhood road designed like a freeway”. Another is “why is it safe to have virtually no speed limits on Autobahns?”. I mean people act on environmental queues - from the size of lanes to what speed fellow motorists are observing. Just pinning it on individuals is incorrect. HOWEVER there are entitled arseholes out there who will totally ride jour read bumper at high speed because they need to pass you only to turn off at nearest exit.
“why was this neighbourhood road designed like a freeway”
The stroad by my house is five lanes wide with a 45mph speed limit but still has crosswalks that nobody can use because it’s a five lane road with people doing 45mph and many people have already been killed crossing. So many that children are bussed from the school across the road because it’s too dangerous to even have a crossing guard.
You read that right: Kids who live less than 200 feet from the school can’t walk there because the road is too dangerous.
And we can’t get the speed limit lowered because it’s a state highway and the state says it has to be 45 and the local community has no say in it.
And people wonder why I hate authority.
from the size of lanes
The American mindset seems to be drive as fast as possible without being pulled over. Therefore the default speed tends to be driving 5mph over the speed limit. So, the government should just set the speed limit to 5mph under what they actually want and then it’ll be fine.
They basically do just that. If you ever see a pair of tubes across the roadway, they’re measuring speeds. They set the speed limit at a percentile. Plus or minus and politics dependent…
If the fuckcars community wanted to lower speed limits they could just drive across those reeeallly slowly
The models used actually take speed reductions due to things like unseen conditions, uncertainty about driving over mystery hoses and excessive speed in an attempt to manipulate the data to get a higher speed limit into account.
If they put half as much effort into building the roads better as they did for normalizing data we’d be in good shape.
What a weird thing to say.
Beyond that doing one does not in any way prevent the other from also being worked on at the same time, this is how roads are made better. After trivial assumptions like site/soil surveys, traffic studies are the most influential aspect transport engineers consider when working on a project.
I’m a weird person.
That’s not a good justification. Totally ignoring your impact on your community, at the very least you owe it to yourself to try and improve your understanding of the world - ignorance is only shameful when it’s embraced.
Driving school and being pulled over has taught me that the silly numbers are not the maximum speed, theyre the minimum speed, and the actual maximum is 5-10 higher depending on what other people are doing. “Going with the speed of traffic and going fast enough to prevent lane changes” is the real answer.
Ive begun going the exact speed limit in the right lane and ive been pulled over 3 times now and experienced more roadrage than i thought possible. I never got pulled over going 90 in a 70, or 30 in a 25, or 45 in a 35.
People are in such a hurry to save 0-30 seconds on their 15 minute drive
Can you tell these stories? I didn’t think cops would pull you over for going the speed limit in the right lane.
Since i got my EV ive been going the speed limit because range issues. Everyone around me is going 75 in a 55 (goes from 65 to 55 during my commute but no one cares) while i actually slow down to 55. Had a police officer pull me over for driving suspiciously, i asked him if he knew how fast i was going, when he said no i let him know i was going the speed limit unlike literally every other car. He gave me a ticket for impeeding traffic and it got thrown out after the court wasted 3 hours of my time.
Basically the same story again two more times.
Worth noting im a white male presenting person with a clean record, so your milage may vary
My mother-in-law has been pulled over for doing the speed limit three times in her life. Each time given a warning and told by the cops she’s making everyone else less safe.
You get pulled over for impeeding traffic, it’s pretty rare to get a ticket and would fail in court. Usually it’s a warning. A waste of tax dollars.
I mean the police probably figured anyone actually going the speed limit has got to be up to something pretty bad if they’re going the speed limit.
That’s because it is.
Try driving through I-5 in Los Angeles following the speed limit. I dare you.
I mean most daylight hours you’ll be well below it 😂😂
People will always drive at the speed that feels safe, it’s not just Americans. Gradually here this is being recognized, and roads narrowed, speed bumps added, etc. in places where we need to go slowly. At my work complex the stated limit is 10 mph and even on my bike I am speeding, and cars are passing me, but it doesn’t feel unsafe at all.
Behavioral engineering is way more effective than posted speed limits that often didn’t seem to correlate with reality.
If you give me a five lane stroad with wide lanes and lights only every 1/4-1/2 mile, I don’t care what the speed limit is, I’m doing 60+ because it feels right, and if someone does the speed limit in front of me I’ll probably be annoyed.
But if I was going down the same street, doing the same thing, with the same amount of time available, but the lanes were narrowed to add protected bike lanes, the center lane was replaced with a median with trees and occasional left turn/u-turn spots, and crosswalks were added between the lights, I’m going to do around 35 because that feels right, and I won’t even be mad about it. I’ll just cruise down the street chilling.
Give people a street where it seems like you should be going fast and people will go fast, and get aggressive/angry when they can’t. Give people a nice street to roll down and chill and that’s what they’ll do. It looks nicer and is more walkable/rideable too.
Right, this is one of those things where I seemed to have a very different experience than many Americans …. But we have older roads that are narrow and winding. The towns were all built out before cars and never really got to the “stroad” stage of dystopia. All those “design elements” come for free
This. My city keeps putting in more and more traffic cameras, but it doesn’t slow cars down; it just generates revenue. If they actually wanted people to slow down, they’d reconsider having the main road look like a pin-straight four-lane highway.
I mean, if you’re on a bike or power walking or something I’m certain nobody’s going to get too disagreeable about your speed.
Lol how wrong can you be, if you are fraction slower than the person behind you (type of vehicle doesn’t matter) you get cussed out in America. I literally was going 20 mph up a hill with an ebike and some gobsmacked asshole has the nerve to tell me to yield to cars behind me because according to him I don’t have a “real” ebike 😤🥱. This happens everywhere in my city, jokes on them I don’t need to go 60 mph to get to my job in less than 10 min, sounds like poor planning on drivers end to live so far away and have the audacity to tell locals not to use our roads.
Oof that’s rough. I do pull over to the side & let cars pass when I ride in the 35mph road on the way to work (there is a sidewalk I can use, it’s allowed but sometimes there are pedestrians using it or work trucks parked over the entire sidewalk -fuck those guys in particular, then I use the road) but once on a different 35 with no good sidewalk I had a Prius follow slowly and at a safe distance for so so far even though there was plenty of room to pass. Honestly I can get to 35 on the electric bike but don’t want the cops to know, and it wouldn’t help because as the whole point of this thread is - on the road to work it’s smooth and easy so people do 45.
Yeah, technically I have the same right to be in the car road, there is no bike lane or path, but it’s not something I’m willing to die for, I am slower traffic and keep right. There are lights so if I walk it across an intersection and wait I can get a very light traffic situation for a couple of blocks.
Wrote the city to complain about the road though, to ask them to convert it like they did some of the other similar sized ones, bike lanes, middle turn lane.
If someone’s willing to stay behind you that long, they’re not the car to worry about. They have patience and caution.
This might be me. We have a lot of narrow and winding roads where it’s really not safe for me to give the clearance you deserve. But waiting another 30 seconds really doesn’t impact me. Most drivers are more aggressive about passing cyclists
Just to troll …… when I used to cycle regularly, they did care. All the cars were too damn slow and wouldn’t get out of the way. I hated some sections of towns where I had to slow down
My closest call was an elderly woman who misjudged my speed. She passed me but then immediately slowed for a turn without realizing I was there and couldn’t brake as sharply. Worked out though: I was able to brake enough to turn inside her and avoid the accident, and my brakes shrieked like a banshee so she knew what she did
it’s more like, “if I don’t, the psycho behind me will gut me like a fish and then fashion my skin into an extremely ineffective shower curtain”
yeah i know that he shouldn’t do that because it’s illegal, but the world is full of highly principled corpses and there are people who are depending on me to be alive.
at least i get to cruise slow and steady when there happens to be no one else behind me… and what’s wild is, ever since i grew the fuck up and stopped being a speeder piece of shit, i hardly ever encounter traffic jams anymore, and i don’t seem to get where i’m going any later than i would have otherwise.
There are roads where speeding is so common you will in fact be dangerously tailgated if you drive the speed limit
There are roads…
Lmao. These roads are everywhere then. I have in my life not seen a single place where driving speed limit doesn’t earn you someone glued to your back, even though a minute ago there was no one behind you.
This is experience from driving all over Europe and the US.
German standard.
And don’t dare to drive lower, although of course you’d be legally allowed to.
i have gotten tailgated by a semi truck in a highway construction zone, one of the scariest things i have experienced while driving. i couldnt even see his lights in my back window he was so close
I got tailgated on a rural highway by a semitruck once. I was going 70 mph. When I slowed down to stop at a red light, they changed lanes and blew through it.
You should have brake check him /joking
My entire commute
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When you do this, they become a reasonable person and stop doing what they’re doing
That’s how you get followed home by a road rager, possibly possessing a firearm.
The best method is to spray your windshield.
Some of it gets swept with the wind into their windshield, and they have to wipe/clean theirs.I don’t think that’s ever failed to get someone to back off.
Why would someone care about this? I’ve had this happen to me a handful of times, almost always a jeep because they have crazy over spray, I was never tail gating but I was totally unphased by it, its wiper fluid not acid
That’s why I fill my windshield wiper fluid reservoir with hexafluorosilicic acid.
I don’t think people care about it, but it seems to trigger some subconscious “I’m too close” and they drop back a bit.
I guess if someone is actually being an asshole aggressive tailgater then they won’t care
In my experience, American roads are built to support much higher speeds than the speed limit is set. Going 10-20mph over the limit doesn’t feel particularly unsafe on the wide, straight roads.
On the other side, it felt crazy to drive the speed limit on (for example) the narrow, windy roads in Ireland. The limit there felt like a literal maximum, whereas in the US it feels like the minimum.
You are right about American freeways. City roads tend to have a lower speed limit that is probably appropriate and it would be unsafe to go faster.
Rural America will have little roads with deer and intersections at blind curves and say 55 mph seems about right.
I have noticed the opposite, having driven in multiple countries. American urban speeds are dangerously higher while the highway speeds are set lower.
Rural America will have little roads with deer and intersections at blind curves and say 55 mph seems about right.
And the residents will do 65 on them and complain about the tourists who do 45. I know, I’ve been both.
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod @jj4211 And US insurance companies will consider it not your fault if you wreck your car by hitting one of the deer, as if it’s not possible to slow down and take precautions when and where deer are likely to be present.
this is often not thought about when talking about this but even the spacing in the lines drawn on the road influences your perception of speed.
the solution isn’t trying to enforce lower limits, it’s having roads enforce them.
As noted car enthusiast NotJustBikes has said, driving is not a conscious activity. We drive to what feels right, to a degree. A road built to support 100kph will always have speeder problems until layers of traffic calming are put in place.
UK B road limits are in fact limits (as opposed to North American suggested minimums), often being little more than millennia old cart paths with asphalt applied
I think we just need to pull people over for speeding until they get it that speeding is not OK. Like the signs are right there, and driving SHOULD be a conscious activity. If people are not driving consciously they should lose their car and license.
Driving consciously is bound to be less safe. Any activity you’ve done a thousand times, if you start overthinking what you’re doing, you make more mistakes.
Just design the roads for the speed you want people to go and 99.9% of drivers will slow down without giving it a second thought. You design a road for 130 km/h, people will go around 130 km/h not the 90 km/h limit you’ve posted. Etc.
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Driving consciously is bound to be less safe. Any activity you’ve done a thousand times, if you start overthinking what you’re doing, you make more mistakes.
That’s complete nonsense, i didn’t say overthinking but absolutely you should be paying attention. You’re actually arguing that not consciously doing things is safer? Pay attention, when you a speed limit sign, follow it. That’s all I’m asking for, that’s not overthinking. In fact speeding is overthinking, “sign says 40 but im good to go 45 or even 47”. THAT is overthinking.
Just pulling more people over for speeding is how you turn it into a revenue generating exercise. Law enforcement’s goal should be improving safety, not maximizing revenue.
Designing roads to encourage people to drive an appropriate speed is more effective, even when the road blocks aren’t staffed.
Note: but I’ll fight against destructive speed bumps, maybe all speed bumps. They’re usually just annoying and damaging without really helping. It should also not be a goal to damage my car if I drive at the speed the rest of the road is designed for. Heck, a speed bump warning may be more effective. Either way: fix the road the right way
and you’re here in the US? I ask because yeah i constantly see people taking turns way too fast and drifting into the next lane or even the shoulder, people disregarding cones, people going 20mph over land bridges for no reason than other than in the US we just assume you go 10mph faster over a land bridge just because. People speeding up in front of yellow lights and then just getting there late and running the red anyway. Like daily, like at each intersection this happens.
yes, i’m all in favor of best practices when it comes to designing roads, but people here drive like crazy assholes and they rather risk the occasional crash than drive sensibly for the road conditions like you say. Tons of people on their phones swerving in and out of traffic. Yes, let’s improve the infrastructure 100%, but there really is a problem here of people disregarding basic driving safety on top of that.
you’re here in the US?
I’ve seen people here describe it as the most European part of the US, but yeah.
I do see it - straight and wide roads have more distracted drivers, more speeders, more dangers, especially for pedestrians and cyclists. But we also have a lot of narrow, winding roads with utility poles right on the edges, deer warnings, etc. you have to pay attention
If you look at the design documents for the roads in your area, usually available in plain old PDF files at your State DOT website… it usually states both the designed speed, and what the posted speed will be.
If it’s a modern road, it is almost certainly designed for 5-10mph over what the posted limit will be. Because they know most traffic will speed, and that is accounted for in the road design, regardless of the posted limit sign.
It’s wild to me that someone heard this logic and said “makes sense”.
Like, I get it from an engineering perspective. You find out the maximum capacity of a bridge, account for extremes like multiple heavy loads, find the point of failure, and then engineer in a safety factor. Making sure your bridge can handle your theoretical maximum several times over.
But, we aren’t dealing with people seeing a strong bridge and thinking “nice, I can carry more stuff in my car” and encourage a larger capacity. The capacity they carry is already limited by their vehicle. They aren’t even thinking about the bridges capacity.
With road design. The road controls the capacity (speed) directly to the user of the road. There is a physical speed that if their car reaches they will crash. They interact with it directly.
Designing a road that increases that speed at which a guaranteed crash will happen is primarily just increasing the lethality of said crash. That’s the primary part of “safety” that the design guideline is controlling.
It’s saying. “Hey, if you go too fast for the road conditions, don’t worry. We made sure that the road was designed so that when you reach that speed you’ll have less time to react and more chance of dying”.
Also, “everyone speeds” is bull shit. Every speeds down a zero intersection straight road with a posted speed limit 15 MPH under what the road was designed for. It’s a fucking self fulfilling prophecy.
It’s saying. “Hey, if you go too fast for the road conditions, don’t worry. We made sure that the road was designed so that when you reach that speed you’ll have less time to react and more chance of dying”.
That’s not at all what’s being said. Knowing the speed people will want to drive with a specific design, doesn’t make it inherently “too fast”, its the exact opposite. The road designers are literally designing what the road condition will feel like to drivers, then taking the human factor into account to set a sensible limit instead of an arbitrary one.
If they know the road design will make people drive 50mph, and that most people drive 5mph over the posted limit, they post a 45mph limit. Driving at 50mph down that road is not “too fast”, that’s literally what was designed to feel correct.
There have been several studies over the years about posted versus real world speeds. Including studies of the same road with the posted speed being changed and monitoring driver behavior. They found that regardless of what the posted sign says, people usually drove about the same speed on that road. The minimum and maximum speeds varied with different signs as some people used that number directly, but the average of all traffic stayed the same regardless of the signage because that’s the speed that felt correct for that roadway. In some cases that was under the posted limit, in others that average was up to 10 over the posted limit.
Every speeds down a zero intersection straight road with a posted speed limit 15 MPH under what the road was designed for. It’s a fucking self fulfilling prophecy.
Most roads do not have posted speed limits that vary dramatically from the speed that feels right on that road, because they’re designed for a specific speed and posted with that consideration. Artificially low speed limits are not common. They’re usually from a speed being changed years after the road was designed and built, so it wasn’t intended to have drivers at that speed and also wasn’t physically changed to help reinforce that speed subconsciously, or from a town trying to boost ticket revenue.
That’s not at all what’s being said. Knowing the speed people will want to drive with a specific design, doesn’t make it inherently “too fast”, its the exact opposite.
You quoted and replied to my hyperbolic conclusion instead of the substance of what I was saying. Which is why I don’t really disagree, on the face of it, with anything you said.
The problem is not in individual roads or individual road designs. Though we often have to use the thought of an individual road to describe the problem. Which is what I was doing through analogy. The problem is that there is nothing put into the design to account for the impact on the way people drive based on the design parameters themselves.
It is a feedback loop that is not being taken into consideration by the design guidelines of American road infrastructure. The very basic “post the height of the bridge as 1 ft lower than it actually is” is being applied to speed limits and road design. When this type of thinking is far too simplistic for a much more complex system of human interaction with the road and other humans themselves.
The truck driver that drives a 10ft tall truck that fits under a bridge with a posted 9 ft 11in tall sign doesn’t think “hmmm I bet I could fit my 10ft 1in truck under here as well”.
But drivers do have these more complex thoughts and interactions with the road that they drive down every day.
My post was more a criticism of the use of speed limits in general. Which is why I was being hyperbolic. But I should have been more clear.
I am in favor of the design choice that "the driver should not even need to know the limit. They should be incentivized by the design to drive at a speed that is both safe for themselves, other drivers, and above all, pedestrians.
When I was in Appalachia, on the mountain roads, many are very narrow, and winding. Speed limits often like 40, and you can’t go more than that without crashing unless you have a motorcycle or something. It’s not a suggestion, it’s the maximum you can do on the curves.
Furthermore, even though that’s the maximum, the safest speed on mountain roads is the one you feel comfortable with. Even though I’m experienced driving in the mountains and can comfortably go that limit I’m not gonna be too annoyed at the car from Florida in front of me going 15mph under. I will get extremely annoyed when they don’t use the pull out spots or if they accelerate up to the speed limit in the passing zones though.
This isn’t specific to America…
Here in Europe we occasionally get road construction sites on motorways where the speed limit is temporarily reduced to 80, 60 or even 40 because the lanes are narrower than usual and drivers need to navigate around the construction site. I’m never quite sure how fast to drive there: if I actually drive the posted limit, I’ll have 0 cars in front of me, but it looks (from my perspective) that I’m holding up 67 cars behind me who would want to drive faster. If I keep up with what the driver in front of me is doing, I’m technically violating the law…
Are there workers? If there are workers, slow the heck down, keep them safe. If there are workers, it shouldn’t even be a question
I live in Pennsylvania where the roads are always under construction because there’s never anyone actually working on them.
Of course the assumption was that it was clearly completely safe to drive significantly faster than the posted limit.
Just go the speed limit and keep in the travel lane, people can pass if they want to go faster than the speed limit.
In situations like that it is common that the road has been reduced to one lane.
Then yeah people gotta be patient, i dont run through the supermarket either even if im in a big hurry.
Not run, but I can walk pretty fast and hate to waste time at the grocery. Even the smallest full grocery has aisles 3 carts wide so there is no excuse for obstructing traffic and I hate everyone who does.
I mean yeah then maybe living in a society isn’t for you lmao
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In America, unfortunately, and depending on where you are, this could very well get you killed or pushed off the road.
People are rage crazy these days, everyone. Do not do this.
Hint: I too want to get to my destination relatively quickly. So this is just asshole behavior for the sake of it…
Always disheartening to see this rule of thumb downvoted. In here, of all places. People really telling on themselves. If someone is tailgating you they have less stopping distance if you have to brake suddenly. Slowing down increases time to react. It’s not bad behavior or road raging, it’s prudent sense. It can save your neck. I learned this in driver’s ed. I’d rather have a cager sniffing my asshole at 30 than at 45, and if they don’t have a lane to just go around, the speed limit is probably lower anyway.
I don’t recommend driving at 10 under though. As in like all the time. If you’re in a safe situation you should just drive near the limit, it’s usually what the road is designed for.
