It’s me! I’m the propaganda! How dare I read the code and tell you all about it.reality is a hexbear smear campaign
Red Wizard casts Song of Discord, it’s super effective!
Woah, it’s an honor to meet you mr. propaganda, I’ve heard so much about you!
Please, call me Red, Mr. Propaganda was my father.
Ah, understood, thank you Mr. Red!
Nice try, but I have already depicted you as the snarling Hexbear tankie, and myself as the enlightened lemmy.world contributor
TankieWizard casting a spell to trick the innocent lemmitors into losing faith in pieFED
I cast Tasha’s Hideous Laughter on myself. I chose to fail the save.
how dare you only post snippets of the code when there’s so much of it!
I’m unleashing the beast on the code just to see what it thinks:
What is “the beast”? Is that some locally-run LLM? Or you mean like LLMs are the Anti-Christ?
Yeah, LLMs are the Anti-Christ but the Anti-Christ is cool and made by China and costs me nearly nothing to run. It’s just DeepSeek running through an Agent system. I find that it’s good enough at looking at a code base and explaining how it works conceptually, and reasonably good at looking at best practices and then judging a code base against those best practices.
This isn’t changing my mind it’s written as someone’s first starter project or class assignment
Yeah I didn’t think it would
what a good developer does in 50 lines of code, a bad developer does in 500
Yeah but it’s easier to complain about people not seeing the context than accepting it’s not good code.
Like the parts checking if it’s a gif
a great developer does it in 100
The Post class is 1000+ lines.
what the hell do you even do with a 1000-line class? the greatest argument against capitalism is that people like this run the world
Yoooooo thank you Slrpnk for this thread because I totally missed that earlier thread criticising parts of Piefed’s code and OMFG it’s bad and full of shit that is the dev’s personal feelings deliberately hidden and it deliberately gives misleading errors to prevent you discovering what it’s actually doing.
If a dev is deliberately obfuscating their errors to hide what their fucking service is actually doing you should run the fuck away. That is not a good or honest dev.
Like, I wouldn’t have used it to begin with but having your code do one thing and then telling the user it’s doing something else screams malicious developer.
EDIT:
As Edie mentioned, if someone has a user blocked, and that user replies to someone, their comment is dropped:
if parent_comment.author.has_blocked_user(user.id) or parent_comment.author.has_blocked_instance(user.instance_id):log_incoming_ap(id, APLOG_CREATE, APLOG_FAILURE, saved_json, 'Parent comment author blocked replier')return NoneFor Example:
Cowbees comment on lemmy.ml: https://lemmy.ml/post/41587312/23288779
Non-existent on piefed.social: https://piefed.social/comment/9647830
(see Edies original comment here)
This enables deeply deeply malicious behaviour not to mention being malicious in its own right. One blocked user is blocking ALL users. You could make an account on piefed, block the entire fediverse, and Piefed will then drop all of it lmao.
The ideological purpose of this that the dev has is so that the invested people who actually take time to learn this (anticommunists) can block any leftists across the fediverse and function as a secret and hidden element of blocking left wing content.
Deeply malicious developer is an understatement.
If you’re an anarchist or a socdem or a whatever don’t think this doesn’t apply to you and that it will only be used against communists, anyone even vaguely leftwing will be blocked by people who know this function exists and all of your shit will never appear there. It is a platform that will make the left completely invisible if you do not exist directly on it. But you better bet that if you exist on it and say the wrong thing that’s slightly further left than what they approve of they’ll come down on you too.
this looks easily trollable though.
time to make accounts on tons of piefed servers
34·3 days agoOne blocked user is blocking ALL users. You could make an account on piefed, block the entire fediverse, and Piefed will then drop all of it lmao.
Only in reply to you, either direct comment replies or if you are the poster then anywhere in the comments.
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Slightly less bad but it’s still going to achieve the elimination of everything remotely left of center. Think of what power users dominate reddit and how neoliberal they all are. Everyone that ever says anything anti-zionist will be blocked and their left wing takes that are less controversial (to genocide supporters) will then all disappear.
this is more or less exactly how reddit works. i don’t know why they don’t just go back to reddit.
Something we haven’t discussed here is that Reddit (except on niche or local subs) is just on a whole different scale than the Fediverse. The active subreddits have enough users that blocking 10 people from replying to you isn’t gonna stop the hundreds of others who still would say the same things in response. Meanwhile on Piefed if I’m a lib and I block 10 leftist accounts then post about how the Tiananmen Square, it’s way less likely for someone to come and post the full video.
In fact, it’s even worse: if I’m one of the 10 people they blocked and I post the link (since it still appears that I can from the Lemmy side) then another leftist reading the thread from a Lemmy instance will see the reply and won’t feel the need to post it themselves, but the Piefed users on the other side won’t.
In fact, it’s even worse: if I’m one of the 10 people they blocked and I post the link (since it still appears that I can from the Lemmy side) then another leftist reading the thread from a Lemmy instance will see the reply and won’t feel the need to post it themselves, but the Piefed users on the other side won’t.
That’s not entirely correct as things seem to be right now. It’s not a piefed-lemmy divide (yet at least, piefed may start federating blocks, in which case it could be), it’s either only the blocking users instance, or all but the blocked user and potentially replied to users instance that can’t see the comment.
That might be slightly confusing, so let me give examples:- if you are replying to user@piefed.social (who we presume has blocked you or your instance) in a post on community@lemmy.ml, then only piefed.social will be unable to see the comment, but e.g. lemmy.world and piefed.zip will be able to see it.
- if you are replying to a comment by user@piefed.social in a post on community@piefed.social, then lemmy.world and piefed.zip will not know of your comment as it is piefed.social’s job to federate the comment to other instances.
- if you are replying to a comment by user@lemmy.world in a post by user@piefed.social on community@piefed.social, then lemmy.world might be able to see it, but piefed.zip and all others won’t.
In all of these your local instance can of course also see the comment.
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They seek the failure of decentralised media. They’ll go back after achieving that goal.
i gotta say, i don’t see it happening
There’s only a handful of projects and they’re all directly connected to Lemmy. Killing Lemmy is first step towards killing the idea of a decentralised reddit alternative entirely. Sentiment towards other projects will plummet if the first and largest of them falls over.
It’s also not like liberals haven’t tried to make an alternative to reddit in the past. Tildes was even made by a reddit admin but it never caught on because it doesn’t really have a hook. The hook Lemmy has is fundamentally about wanting to get away from corporate centralised control, which is ideologically leftist whether these liberals like that or not. The projects that the liberals are in charge of will trend the wrong direction, away from all the things that give Lemmy a hook that continually brings in more people. They don’t get it. They just want to recreate reddit.
Kill the leftist project and the others will not have a hook and go the same way as other reddit alternatives did historically.
i get the thought, but i just can’t see it happening. at least not as an explicitly political project. maybe lemmy will make some sort of unforced error but even then idk. no redditor is going to voluntarily spend their time building a community just to destroy the tankies. and so long as piefed sucks so much i just can’t see it happening. maybe the buyeuropean libs will manage to keep the piefed community big enough for it to happen but in its current iteration i just can’t imagine it destroying lemmy.
That sounds like a good feature?
If I blocked someone I dont want them commenting on everything I post and harassing me, especially if I can’t event see it but everyone else. Is that how Lemmy works?
No, Lemmy allows someone you’ve blocked to reply to you, and everyone else can see it.
Also, if it was just local, it wouldn’t be as big of a problem, then the ui can inform people that they can’t reply and they can then figure out what to do. The problem is that federated users can create comments that they dont realize will never show up.
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My least favourite lemmy feature. I don’t like blocking people at all, because I’m worried about people saying things behind my back that I can’t see. It seems like it would only give control to the blocked person, not the blocker.
Oh no! Not other people on the internet saying bad things about my anonymous account! How will my reputation ever recover?!
Exactly, it opens you up to slander. They could be saying all sorts of nasty things about you to other people and you can’t even defend yourself from the allegations, and no one reading it will know you had them blocked.
Oh, that’s not good. I like the PieFed method more here.
It sounds like piefed effectively shadowbans responders, though. Preventing people from replying to users who blocked them is the best implementation, but letting people think they’ve replied and silently hiding the replies, without even a message letting you know you’ve been blocked, is possibly the worst.
I could be wrong about it because this is all incredibly confusing to me.
I would prefer a harasser not being able to comment and not know over a harasser being able to comment and me not knowing.
If a dev is deliberately obfuscating their errors to hide what their fucking service is actually doing you should run the fuck away. That is not a good or honest dev.
This a valid and necessary tactic to deal with persistent spammers and other types of malicious actors actually
Aren’t you banned here? And you have me blocked on your other account too.
I fucking liked you, I don’t know what the hell happened to you but you went completely the wrong direction. If you think splitting with communists while people are getting shot in the face in the streets and communists are literally the only people organising an effective opposition(the strike was PSL) you are out of your fucking mind.
Not banned here. Never blocked you iirc. Don’t have any other accounts.
I haven’t ever changed direction (well since I became an anarchist at least) , so not sure where you saw that (or what it has to do with my comment above).
I’m not “splitting” with communists. I’ve always maintained that we can work together so long as they follow anarchist praxis. Same as with libs.
Left unity is when anarchists obey MLs, and when anarchists ask for MLs to compromise they are called counter revolutionary and banned.
But I guess one random user said “oh I used to like you” before insulting you for being consistent in your beliefs, what a loss of an ally. Someone who doesn’t like being told something differently and then insults others.
And if we did the same…
You definitely were banned here. The modlog says that was removed 27 days ago. I clearly don’t know what has gone down to change that. I feel like I vaguely remember it being to do with defending mods with very obviously reactionary positions but I’m pretty fuzzy about it other than knowing things went down to make me see you as on the shitlist.
Removed by mod
You defended and supported a neonazi, I can only assume you were unbanned by accident. You certainly don’t belong anywhere near any left-wing space.
Lol, nah it’s actually worse than that, I’m actually Hitler
Literally one fucking comment ago you just told me you weren’t splitting.
I am dead serious about this, if you still reject left unity you are a fucking idiot. Fascists will be dragging you out of the house to be shot in the street and there will still be dipshits screaming about the awful tankies, it’s fucking ridiculous, you know as well as I do that whatever gripes you have with communists we’re still markedly better than the capitalists and failure to ally with us when the alternative is literal barbarism will be a death sentence.
Not being “united” with Marxists (or libs) doesn’t mean we can’t work with them to bash the fash. You’re conflating two different things. Rejecting left unity simply means we don’t accept your narrative about geopolitics nor do we accept your blanket leadership.
In other words, you’re welcome to bash the fash with us, so long as you don’t expect us to do unreasonable things like praise “aes” in the process or vote for you in elections.
The fact that censorship of that sort is even there in the first place is the problem. If you wanted people to be able to modify the software like that it should be separated from either the main code base or even just in a different namespace.
Now I will say Rimu is good at what they do. I had an issue where I couldn’t load my main feed and there was nothing I could do client side. They had it fixed within 2 hours of me raising an issue on codeberg. That was great. But their skill isn’t the issue. Its them choosing to inject their opinions in a social media software that has the effect of controlling what everyone using it sees that is the issue.
Sorry for preaching to the choir. Its just after interacting with hexbear quite a bit, I don’t see the bad wrap unless someone is misunderstanding what “death to america” means.
Regarding people misunderstanding Hexbear, I’d argue its deliberate. Not that they are aware, even, but that they choose to never interpret anything we say charitably, because doing so results in uncomfortable realizations. I highly recommend everyone read Masses, Elites, and Rebels: The Theory of “Brainwashing” as we are all guilty of this, to greater or lesser degrees.
It’s the same for hasan piker where there is such a constant smear campaign he’s always in a negative light until people actually listen or see his actions.
Note he has negatives but not enough to warrant how the right and libs think of him. See collar gate or any other controversy from lsf or destiny
Good, practical example!
Have you ever gotten people in the wider fedverse to read some of these redsails articles? I would honestly say a lot of them are better for combating liberalism than most actual theory (which generally isn’t too focused on expunging liberal brainworms)
I started reading them from other instances before I joined hexbear, so I’m one person at least
Yep, but they have to people that want to read them, not just people permanently hostile. Theory dumping doesn’t work, you can take a horse to water but can’t make them drink.
I like hexbear and glad you have such a great community, but I still don’t understand hexbear most of the time.
That’s fair!
I imagine this sequence of events happens a lot:
-see a post saying hexbear wants to execute all infants for being reactionary or something
-go to hexbear
-it’s all pissing owls
Don’t forget all the beans
You’re a good egg, Sanctus.
And we’ll greet you with open arms when you crack
/j of course
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they’re not misunderstanding me, uh, in minecraft
Write shit code.
Gets called out.
IT’S A SMEAR CAMPAIGN.
for fuck’s sake
Don’t forget supposedly banning, sorry deleting, accounts from their instance for making fun of that
We don’t engage in any “campaigns”
What is with lemmy instances and their insisting that we do this?
I’ve seen people trying to organize campaigns on Hexbear before. It’s like herding cats.
This website couldn’t organise a TV dinner for a mash marathon and people think we’re running concerted campaigns of terror
It really comes down to the fact that organizing is not the purpose of this site. Where these libs get this idea that we’re some kind of 4chan/kiwifarms-esque hate mongering mob is beyond me.
Most of them block us or are defederated so their only knowledge of us comes from a rumor mill of people who also have us blocked/defederated. We become a little bit more evil and authoritarian each time the story is told.
Where these libs get this idea that we’re some kind of 4chan/kiwifarms-esque hate mongering mob is beyond me.
Projection, lol.
Yeah. They can’t imagine 3 people having the same opinion on something (which they arrived at separately through dialect materialism) without it being a concerted effort.
It definitely happens that a whole bunch of us follow a link from a popular post to another instance and dunk on people, though, and I can understand how that looks organised. Plus we’re commies and deep down they know we’re the best at organising even if they don’t wanna admit it;)
poVoq was and still is a (pseudo?)anarchist shitlib with a serious hateboner for lemmygrad and then hexbear.
Holy fucking shit lmao. I am actually speechless.
extremely detailed, sourced comment detailing various problems with piefed
That intentionally leave out most of the picture. This is how propaganda works; not by lying but by spreading selective truths.
The Piefed dev has by the way also responded to these allegations: https://slrpnk.net/post/33525301/20457257
That said, I do think some of these optional features are somewhat misguided. However, in the past the main Piefed dev has had an open ear to such concerns and did end up removing several half-baked features again when people explained why those seemed like bad ideas.
That intentionally leave out most of the picture. This is how propaganda works; not by lying but by spreading selective truths.
Damn, first time I’ve seen this in the wild, the US alphabet agencies have been pushing this idea of “Malinformation” that is, correct information but told in the wrong way(i.e. making them look bad) since Trump’s first term I believe. Guess it has taken to time to really sink into the liberal arsenal of thought terminating cliches.
Recuperation happening in real time. Fucking wild.
Oh, I meant more as “sometime around 2016-2020” not specifically Trump related. Though this is how the rehabilitation works, the liberals “oppose” the actions of the republicans in the moment, then they get normalised, then the liberals forget that the republicans were the ones who normalised it and act as if it is a perpetual facet of existence that has been since time immemorial.
Oh no I think I actually didn’t make my point clear. It was wild to see it used in such a way when it has only relatively recently been catching on as a critique of bourgeois media and the rapidity with which it has been twisted into this tortured usage is fascinating. It is literally doing the thing too by only quoting that one snippet of the comment it is replying to.
If someone else has an account there they should definitely post that last point for me because it would annoy the fuck out of them but I can’t be arsed to make another account.
Yeah, much like the OG, “whataboutism” it is used to pre-empt arguments that they don’t have any rebuttal to, they used to just claim “cherry picking” but that doesn’t work when your opponent is taking apart your argument and the last thing you want is to have people look at it more closely.
That is exactly what I meant. I’m old enough to remember some of the pre-soviet collapse stuff that lingered into the 90s and was very aware from a young age so it is super fascinating to watch it play out again. I was already kneeling for the national anthem in kindergarten when Kapernick was barely 2 years old.
well commented
must have been reading a different piefed repo than I was
The 1984-style gif filter function that fails to parse for markdown that would be necessary for the links to appear as gifs is hilarious
I think that’s my favorite function.
I didn’t know what piefed was, so I took a peek at a repository
A Lemmy/Mbin alternative written in Python with Flask. Clean, simple code that is easy to understand and contribute to. No fancy design patterns or algorithms.
That’s all I need to see to know to never touch that software.
No fancy design patterns or algorithms.
This is like when liberals insist that an assessment is “unbiased” or “non-ideological”. It’s impossible. What they mean by “no design pattern” is “no design patterns I don’t like”.
Yeah, Python was a warning sign when I first heard of Piefed. I then decided I didn’t want anything to do with it or instances running it when I learned that hexbear and lemmygrad blocks are hardcoded in the source code. This is also touched upon in more detail in the original thread where @RedWizard@hexbear.net posted the analysis.
Man software is hard. They’re always saying stuff like “Lberry is a branch of the Fortnitely bootlickLoader made for asynchronous thread calls on the VersTop backend”.
And then I open a plugin up and see completely uncommented code like
If x.getParent(struct.key(2).getIsPresent("present")) = 3.rad(y): buttLoader.load(buttSettings.buttSetting(new butt)) Else: x.setIsTrueIfFalse(true)And their newest git update is how they’re excited to be moving to Android while their documentation is 20% complete and their newest feature I actually like is a pull request from some 17 year-old in Nebraska using legacy code to do something in 3 lines I spent 10 hours figuring out how to make but better.
(And yes, the first if statement is an assignment because obviously someone modifying the code knows that the get method of x also assesses 3 arbitrary attributes and returns a bool)
No fancy design patterns or algorithms
Is such a red flag TBH, depending on how it’s meant
The flag is so red, Stuart Semple would make it illegal for Anish Kapoor to use it
I don’t get it >w<
Clean, simple code that is easy to understand and contribute to.
Given how ad-hoc the snippets of codes RedWizard and others have posted, I strongly suspect Pifed’s code to be a horrible spaghetti mess.I only understand how to write Python
Hey it could be in Java like the other alternative world and others were trying to do
As an example, there are two places in the code that do the 4chan image stuff, for uploads on the server and for federated content
And they do not call to some function, they both have a copy of the code doing it.
Edit: switched the links
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you don’t understand only rimu and the other piefed devs are smart enough to explain the code, you can’t listen to anyone else
we totally wouldn’t do anything nefarious trust us
images > 2000px tend to be real photos instead of 4chan screenshots. chan posts usually contain the text ‘Anonymous’ and ’ No.12345’
“usually” “tend to” is not a fucking good filter, there’ll be a lot of false flags.
false flags
Also the
# most vote manipulation bots have 8 character user names and never post any content
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Wait really? It’s that bad? Calling a function is one of the first things you learn to do in Python.
Jesus wept
sorry sweaty, clean abstraction is one o them fancy patterns and we don’t take to kindly to no algorithms around here
No fancy design patterns or algorithms.
I’m choosing to parse that as “No (fancy design patterns) or (algorithms)” rather than “no fancy (design patterns or algorithms)” because it’s funnier to me.
This same person is saying it’s so complicated because if the amount of lines of code so look at snippets is useless…
slurpnik
superfluous comment
It looks like you’re riding sputnik into space and its cute, say hi to anyone up there for us ^^
Wee!
Why is being mad about Rust so often correlated with reactionary opinions?
Its a labor issue between older, established and predominantly male C++ devs and newer, more diverse Rust devs. Like DoD contracts are now mandating “memory safety”. Real shit. C++ is the language you learn if you get a CS Engineering degree. Those departments tend to be crawling with 4channers, who see all of the effort that Rust put into documentation, tooling, detailed error messages, and CoC’s as gay.
There’s a pretty good paper “A Case for Feminism in Programming Language Design” which highlights more on this. I have the PDF but idk his to share it.
PieFED is not an example of this though. Actually its the opposite. Python users tend to be academics, like chemists, who only need it to crunch some data. Its literally just because its too hard for them and they have more important stuff to do. Which is clearly the case here.
Rust excited a lot of younger developers because it lacked decades of tech debt and has safety features built into the language. Those younger developers leaned more progressive, many of them being trans, and there are relatively fewer Rust communities full of bigots.
So it’s a combination of multiple things, I think. The first being an unwillingness of older and more conservative developers to give in to the new technology that is coming for their favorite crusty old tools. The enthusiasm of the younger crowd wanting to use Rust in any and all cases, sometimes where it doesn’t really make sense, greatly annoys them.
The second is the obvious support of the overall Rust community for groups of people they don’t like.
And the last, also relevant here, is a difference of opinion on “Use Rust and do something right the first time, but (sometimes a lot) slower” vs. “Use Python or Java and do things (a lot) quicker, but relatively less efficiently”.
There are legitimate criticisms of Rust (bundling, substantial difficulty in dynamic linking), but those criticisms are not coming across the fence from Python land.
And the last ties in with liberals’ (both neo- and reactionary) adherence to capitalism, in that the latter quick-term profit-seeking is the default method for corporations. Write everything in Javascript (like Electron) for the cheap labor or Python for the wealth of pre-cooked packages that do most of the work for you.
deleted by creator
piefed smears itself with its existence
idk those sorts of slapdash, half baked filters are probably exactly the sorts of things i’d make if i was programming a social media site so
If only the piefed devs had as much self awareness.
“Smear” Campaign and its simply pointing out the Code
Yo, can somebody hook me up with a smear?🥯
solar punk? more like stroller stunk.
blammo, gottem.
shidding and farding themselves in anguish
pooper stank <-- is this anything
