Just fucking sad.
I seriously cannot picture this happening. More of Trump’s dementia addled Twitter rambling. Even the puppets pulling his strings wouldn’t want this.
I mean, crazier shit has happened, but I see the US going full Handmaid’s Tale long before I see them invading a self-governed nation full of almost exclusively white people.
My money would be on Russia making that play before the US.
It won’t happen, it was never going to happen, but Trump will throw such shit-fits they’ll basically give him the equivalent of what he’s asking for so he shuts up. See also the Nobel Peace Prize he strongarmed. It wasn’t technically taken by force but it’s in his hands now, innit.
Don’t underestimate that shithole country
It’s so bizarre seeing people capitulate to toddler tantrums. We’re all being held hostage by an ipad kid.
It’s behind a paywall and I’m not giving Bloomberg money
Yea fuck bloomburg
Maybe the alien invasion from outer space we were expecting since Independence day. was just the Americans using either their space force toys or the solar warden fleet to take over the world?
Alien abductions always seemed like fascist black bagging to me.
Yeah America is getting cooked for the next couple decades at least. Even if Trump literally dies tomorrow and his successor backs out no one is trusting them for a long time.
People forget really fast.
Do they, really?
Remember how noone says “it was just Hitler and his thugs”, no, the world correctly identifies deeply rooted problems within the German mindset and German society of the time as major contributing factors to what ultimately led to the catastrophe we know as WWII and the Holocaust. Militarism, blind obedience before orders and oaths, blaming others.
Even today, Germans are very often confronted with their Nazi past, usually by Americans who think their sense of humor is superior when they crack a dumb Nazi joke (I would like to get a Euro every time I read “I did nazi this coming” on the internet).
No, people do NOT forget. And they don’t care who you are - a perpetrator or someone who was opposed to what happened and apologized for their country. They don’t even care if you knew.
“I didn’t vote for this” is fast becoming the new “I didn’t know anything about it”.
I’m German, so take it from me - sorry, Americans, I wish it was different, but the world will not distinguish what you think about what happened, they will only see an American. People are simple and will always blame the collective.
My granddad was shot by the Wehrmacht for defection, but the world will always just see the Nazi soldier.
And we also see your fighter jet flyovers at the super bowl, the glorification of your military, the gun cult, the lack of social laws and how every single person in America has to fend for themselves. This lack of empathy is a deeply rooted problem in the American mindset and I view it as a contributing factor that enabled Trump.
That’s because its something that is taught to every generation on purpose in pretty much every school system around the world. Most stuff is not something you learn in school, while it is alot.
People, yes, countries, no
Japan forgot they were in war with a country. There are probably more examples.
People keep saying that, but is that really true? Because I just don’t see society having any sort of memory.
For fuck sake, the guy is a rapist, pedophile, liar of the highest order. No one cares. Sure, some people are moving away from US services/products, but 1. Not that many people are doing it and 2. Once a non pedophile, war-monger gets back in the presidency, some little bit of marketing and everyone will go back to buying US.
I just don’t think anyone gives a shit. There is like 1 principled person for every 100000 people.
We need to deny the United States that marketing, then. Hollywood is failing right now. We need to make sure it doesn’t recover.
People keep saying that, but is that really true? Because I just don’t see society having any sort of memory.
American society
For fuck sake, the guy is a rapist, pedophile, liar of the highest order. No one cares. Sure, some people are moving away from US services/products, but 1.
Americans didn’t seem to care, the rest of the world was screaming top of our collective lungs
Not that many people are doing it and 2. Once a non pedophile, war-monger gets back in the presidency, some little bit of marketing and everyone will go back to buying US.
Business people are soulless ghouls so that could happen… but the regular people can hold a grudge. Look at how Canada’s population has rejected anything USA even when the Gov was all appeasement and boot licking until this speech… also remember how much Americans seem to hate Russia and Communism even though most can barely point to one in the map or understand the definition of the other in the dictionary
I just don’t think anyone gives a shit. There is like 1 principled person for every 100000 people.
Again, you are judging the world on the template of Muricans
You conflate internal and international politics.
The tide is turning.
Checks and balances have to get a whole lot stronger before anyone trusts the US long term.
Unfortunately the damage is done. Nations that were asleep at the wheel so to speak and just complacent with the world order arangement have woken up to the danger and risk of doing that. Europe is not going to rely on the US for security anymore no matter who is in charge.
There will be agreements and treaties and shit like that, but our global power is waining (as will the dollar).
It’s not just that, I meant more from an international geopolitics POV.
Countries are also for example getting rid of US dollar in favour of gold and silver, or investing in non-US solutions or income streams for many problems technical, agricultural, medical etc because the US might tariff them for no fricking reason. People are no longer looking as much to US as a place where they can settle with their families long term, or a place to conduct research because a large population is brainwashed into being anti-science and anti-immigrant.
I agree. People elsewhere, like here, will just want to try carrying on like normal. The alternative is too hard. Where are they going to get their supplemental LNG and oil? Are they going to switch to only Linux instead of Windows or macos? Iphones? Our oligarchs, and others will continue to corrupt the world’s politicians, and fund increasingly sophisticated propaganda campaigns. The decision makers will cave to oligarchs’ carrots and sticks.
You are over estimating the importance of american products. Android has 60% market share in eu while iphone has 39%. Norway and Algeria supplied both more LNG to europe than USA in 2024.
At Q3. 2025 EU bought only 14,5% of our petrolium oil from USA. Norway alone was 14,6%.
EU is allready looking into making our own replacement for visa and mastercard.
Food and drink is not really a problem as many processed products USA produces already recognized as non suitable for human consuption. South america will be happy to provide nuts and fruits for EU. Especially when their neighboring country is acting hostile towards them at the moment and most alchohol USA produce is considered bottomself stuff.
Car imports from the USA has been falling for years, even before Trumps tarifs.
I think windows is hardest to shake as most businesses use it and most softwares are designed to use it.
Cultural things like movies, tv series and music and somesoftware are also hard to replace.
I forgot to mention Google’s Android. So it seems nearly 100% of the EU is using a US controlled device in their pocket. Nice little spy devices.
“Algeria’s growing willingness to collaborate with the United States should not be seen solely as a security measure, but as part of a comprehensive strategy to reposition itself geopolitically in an increasingly unstable international environment.” https://www.atalayar.com/en/articulo/politics/russias-growing-influence-in-the-sahel-is-forcing-algeria-to-rethink-its-defence-strategy/20250510130000214532.html
If Algeria gets in bed with US oligarchs, then they will be used as a pawn against the EU. What would you do in winter when some pressure campaign or insurgency is upon you, but budgeted energy is cut short?
A lot of expensive painful changes will have to happen in the EU. Individuals are weak and don’t want their boat rocked. A great period of austerity may be needed to fund the changes. Individuals will hang on to lifestyles that they are accustomed to, and expect the same in the future. When presented with reality, they will experience cognitive dissonance. Many individuals will choose to fool themselves that there is another way, or that things aren’t bad enough to warrant the loss of what they expected their short existence to be like.
Android is open source. Google makes money trough playstore and youtube. Google pays for phone manufactorers so they keep apps like maps and gmail preinstalled on the phones. If at some point there would be situation where company like samsung would need to choose between googles money or their biggest market, market wins. By a huge margin.
USA has hard time stopping Algeria from trading with EU by any other way than military force. EU is their biggest trade partner. 48% of their trade is to European Union.
Also where you get the individuals are weak thing? Like i already said. You are over estimating the importance American trade. And you are forgetting trade goes both ways.
Millions of jobs in the United States are related to EU-US trade and investment. The European Union is a reliable source of critical supplies to the United States, including medicinal ingredients and pharmaceutical products, advanced machinery and equipment, and aerospace parts and components. At the same time, the European Union is the largest buyer of the United States’ natural gas and oil, but states are not the biggest importer of gas and oil for EU.
Total bilateral trade in goods between the EU and the US reached €851 billion in 2023. The EU exported €503 billion of goods to the US market, while importing €347 billion; this resulted in a goods trade surplus of €157 billion for the EU. Total bilateral trade in services between the EU and the US was worth €746 billion in 2023. The EU exported €319 billion of services to the US, while importing €427 billion from the US; this resulted in a services trade deficit of €109 billion for the EU.
The difference between EU exports to the US and US exports to the EU stood at €48 billion in 2023; the equivalent of just 3% of the total trade between the EU and the US.
Also since you like to talk about the oligarchs.
The EU and the US are also major investment partners. EU and US firms have €4.7 trillion worth of investment in each other’s markets (2023 data).
How do you think these oligarchs feel if that 5,5 trillion dollars of investments start to unravel.
rapist, pedophile
I would like this to be true (which is fucked up when you think about it), but do we actually have hard evidence or is this still just speculation? Sure, a lot of information indicates that Trump & co has been involved in sexual abuse with Epstein. Not trying to be a troll or bait, but we need to base our claims on facts and evidence or else we will become just like Trump & co - liars and conspirators.
Well, he was found civilly liable for rape, so I’d say that one is settled. As for pedophilia, we have a lot of circumstantial evidence, and he’s literally blocking the release of the hard evidence, so I’d say most reasonable people can come to that conclusion.
He is an adjudicated rapist.
As for the pedophilia, his various comments over the years sexualizing minors (including his own daughter), eyewitness accounts of him entering teen pageant dressing rooms unannounced, his close friendship with Epstein, and his general unwillingness to cooperate with releasing unredacted versions of the files are just about all the evidence you need to have a reasonable suspicion that he is involved with the trafficking or rape of children. Unfortunately we probably won’t know the whole truth until after he leaves office or dies because we live in a clown country where the chief executive is immune to consequences.
That’s fine. If that’s what it takes to help the Americans get their predatory elites onto a tighter leash, that’ll be worth it.
Foreigner here. I know you civilians don’t control the government anymore & many of us see your hands are tied, but if Americans really want to stop wars, then stop enlisting in any branch of your military except the coast guard. Every other branch is primarily used for invasion. If you’ve already enrolled/are trapped by the military, try to become a conscientious objector.
And FFS, arm yourselves (civilians) to the teeth. The tyrannical government your Founding Fathers envisioned has arrived.
The problem with this is that the military is the only path out of poverty that provides socialized healthcare and paid educational benefits for large portions of our population. I think people outside of the USA don’t understand how the lack of worker protections, healthcare, debt based education and exploding homelessness crisis keeps Americans in bondage
If I miss a week of work I’m homeless. There’s some people a single day can bring them down. They precariously positioned us here so by the time we’ll do anything about it it’ll be too late as they sweep us over the edge.
A lot of us are armed. But you know that orange turd would order the military to bomb complete cities. We would be taking on the world’s most powerful military.
But. I do agree with you. That what it’s going to take. We just need to organize.
A lot of us are armed. But you know that orange turd would order the military to bomb complete cities. We would be taking on the world’s most powerful military.
Yes, you have made grave mistakes for many years that led you to this very deep hole… now they climb back is not going to be a walk in the park but either you do it or die in the hole
Having only people who are willing to do atrocities in the military is not going to magically make it better lmfao, nor will it stop it
Given the fact that the navy were quite happy to kill a bunch of unarmed civilians and then come back a second time when some of them didn’t appear to be dead enough, doesn’t give me a lot of hope that there’ll be a lot of conscientious objectors in the military. My view is that if you’re already looking at the military as a career option you’ve got a certain opinion about killing and that opinion is that it’s okay to do it as long as someone else gave you the order. Absolutely no need to think about the legality of the order either.
Advocating moral responsibility for your actions is kind of a prerequisite of military service.
Each of the branches have long had many global peacetime missions, including humanitarian. They don’t offset the offensive nature of a deployed force, but it can be a good thing to have for delivering defense and aid.
The problem isn’t the enlisted. It is also not limited to the officers. The problem, at present, is primarily the civilian leadership being absolutely unprofessional, unethical, and self-centered.
I’m so tired of these “Ackchyually” excuses, pretending to be smart yet failing to see you are still pointing the finger at your collective selves
Those “civilian leadership being absolutely unprofessional, unethical, and self-centered” were appointed by the regime of the Orange Pedophile whom the American people voted for a second term in office… the vast majority of Americans either voted for this or could not be bothered opposing it with a simple vote they could have mailed in
I’m not “pretending to be smart”, at least not intending to do so. I’m just saying exactly what I said. The military branches all have some non-offensive parts of their mission. That’s just true. Airlift for aid delivery has traditionally been part of the mission, for example. I was also careful not to exonerate them for missions that cause harm or for violation of LOAC or UCMJ. They should know better.
I said the enlisted aren’t the primary problem. Maybe you think they pick and choose their missions, but they simply don’t. As far as voters… yeah many of us are pissed too. What do you want me to do? I vote, I try to persuade others to, try to do my part to keep the electorate informed, try to feed my family, etc. Are you asking us to build some fifth column or some such? That sounds great, but many have a lot of context that informs their decisions.
Let me ask you this. I believe this is true but let’s pretend it’s just a hypothetical scenario:
Democracy in the USA is over, no more elections, everyone lives under martial law and your precious enlisted are your direct oppressors now.
What are you willing to sacrifice to return your country to Democracy? your life? an hour of watching Netflix?
Let me remind you that you ARE in this scenario and the longer you wait, the harder it will be
I’m an immigrant, living in Europe, taking care of a few people that need me. I’m also a veteran with prosthetic discs in my back. Be specific; what do you suggest?
I should also add, to answer your question. I would absolutely lay down my life for the cause, but unless I can see a direct line from that to success, there is still a big, complex risk benefit equation I’m working on.
Since you already left America, I guess you did see the writing on the wall long ago (or maybe just got lucky)
Thinking you were in the USA, I was hoping you’d stop consuming as much as possible and start organizing marches… not on weekends to minimize disruption, on weekdays and preferably during peak hours so they can be noticed (and yes that can be done in whatever little town or big city people live, no need to pretend only marching in DC works)
This is like saying “don’t blame ICE, blame the executive branch”. Soldiers follow orders. The enlisted soldiers WILL kill US citizens resisting the government if ordered to. So yeah, they are part of the problem. Same with cops.
My point is that it isn’t enlisted people that decide on mission. And simply not enlisting doesn’t change that. If the numbers are needed, they will be achieved via volunteer or draft.
Enlisted may or may not attack citizens depending on their views on which orders are lawful. This is nothing like saying not to blame ICE. ICE are signing up to do exactly what they’re doing and should be responsible for it. But enlisted personnel don’t enlist to attack citizens, generally. I’m not saying they are not part of the problem, but they certainly aren’t the root of it.
ITT: Americans once again diging up the nuanced difference between the people and the government from the memory hole they dumped it in the last time Russia was mentioned.
Difference is that Russia’s experience with democracy basically amounted to a brief but insincere flirtation during the 1990s, while Donald Trump and the Congress that enables him were democratically elected by the American people. Trump even won the popular vote this time.
If anything, I’d say that makes it even more glaring.
Some of these comments are awful. Apparently, if we all aren’t wrapping ourselves and children with explosives and becoming Jihadists overnight, we’re not doing enough.
This is a class war. The rich have taken over all the checks and balances in our system to where they can break every rule and comfortably get away with it; all the while getting richer and us poorer. We’re powerless and spread too thin geographically to do anything meaningful. Maybe we do need to get that radical, but I really hope it doesn’t ever need to get to that point.
Some of these comments are awful. Apparently, if we all aren’t wrapping ourselves and children with explosives and becoming Jihadists overnight, we’re not doing enough.
LOL right… maybe just stop the endless excuses and do something, anything… stop consuming, hold a march on a weekday, write to your corrupt Senator or House Rep weekly
The real problem here is that you have given the world Chlamydia but want to sit there pretending it is not your fault and any effort on your part is just asking too much
Stop with the false fucking hope, wake the fuck up, and do something. God you people will be wringing your hands acting like there is nothing you can do right until the end.
JOIN A UNION. JOIN THE IWW. ORGANIZE. GET INVOLVED IN LOCAL PROTESTS AND NETWORK NETWORK NETWORK. FORM A GROUP CHAT FOR YOUR COMMUNITY. BUY A GUN AND LEARN TO USE IT.
Yes but apparently fighting fascistism is mildly inconvenient so they’re not going to do it.
Where did the original commenter say they weren’t doing these things? Or are you just not satisfied unless every random person on the internet is declaring they’re committing suicide by cop?
Where do you live, should I make assumptions about you? Are you out on the street right now calling for sanctions on US plutocrats? Are you in the USA and not seeing this networking happen on the ground? If so, where in particular and what are you doing about it? Otherwise, what conditions are making your networking successful and how can we replicate those? Because I promise your imagined passivity is not universal…
But do it faster, faster I say! I want to see American bodies in the street on the telly!
Ok but there is quite a way between going oh I don’t like what’s happening on social media and blowing yourself up.
Write to your representatives and make it extremely clear that if they want to be reelected they will stand up to Trump.
Massive protests, the No Kings protest were good but then you all kind of just gave up. Nothing violent but just a stubborn refusal to go along is all that is required. Boycott companies that support Trump, don’t buy the next iPhone (it’s basically the same phone every year anyway), don’t go to FIFA, don’t go to the Olympics, go to as many town meetings as you can and raise points of order and complain. Make it even possible for the powers that be to ignore the situation.
Just imagine you’re a French dock worker complaining about industrialisation.
Don’t waste your time writing to representatives. Democracy is gone, bud, you need to start imagining that you are living under the nazi regime. Arm yourself and network with activists. Make contacts now while you still can.
I only mentioned writing to representatives because the original poster was so keen to do nothing. Anything’s better than that kind of apathy.
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Here are concrete steps we can take to combat this (the titles below expand if you click them).
Learn First Aid! ⛑️
The future us likely to be violent, and It extremely important to have the skills to be able to keep yourself and others alive if they get hurt. You can never have too many medics.
Tacticool Girlfriend provides a great introduction to building a personal first aid kit, called an IFAK, which can deal with things like bullet wounds and other serious bleeding wounds. I also want to emphasize her recommendation of only buying medical gear from reputable sources (not Amazon!), such as North American Rescue to avoid fakes that could cost you your life.
But you’ll need to learn how to use that equipment, too. The best resource for that is to take a local Stop The Bleed class, which are pretty widely available in most places. They may cost a small fee, but can also sometimes be free. Alternatively, if you cannot access a local class, this video by PrepMedic will give you a solid understanding of how to use Tourniquets and Gauze for wound packing.
Injuries are less harmful if they are tended to early. Learning first aid can help conserve resources when healthcare becomes unaffordable. Having several medics in case of harm by police is an extremely powerful morale booster during a protest that may become a police riot. When you become comfortable with the basics of first aid, riot medicine is the next suggested step.
Establish or join local Mutual Aid networks ✊
If you haven’t already, get to know your neighbors. Mutual aid is a willingness to support and grow your community. This can include informal networks through friends, tenant/renter organizations, solidarity groups, and industrial unions.
These are groups using direct action to solve each other’s problems. Building strong communities makes it difficult for fascism to take root. The actions of the government are going to hit every community hard, and the ones who build trust in each other and work together are most likely to survive. We’ve been building a list of resources in !inperson@slrpnk.net to help you on your way. Also check out this handy guide to find existing groups in your area.
This isn’t only for your own community protection. Your ability to organize today will change the political landscape tomorrow. When revolution occurs, the social organizations that show the greatest resilience through the regime are the ones typically calling the shots when the dust settles. When it comes to elections, get out the vote drives are useless if most of the voters are fascists. At some point, you have to do grassroots political education if you don’t want fascist candidates winning elections. Mutual aid networks are excellent forums not only for teaching each other good political ideas, but demonstrating them in practice.
Join a Union and Prepare for a General Strike! 💪
The most effective non-violent action we can take is preparing and organizing for a General Strike.
The country would be brought to its knees if suddenly deprived of profit and labor. That tactic was extremely effective in Chile in 2019, and had they not fallen for the trick of liberal reform, they would’ve had a successful revolution on their hands with virtually no bloodshed.
If you aren’t in a union (or even if you are, it’s worth dual-carding), consider joining the IWW to unionize your workplace (bonus: you’ll get higher wages, better benefits, and more time off if you succeed!) to strengthen a general strike if we manage to enact one, as most unions have a strike fund that can supplement your income during a general strike to make it more financially bearable (you should also save as much money as you can reasonably do, so it can also be used to keep yourself afloat during a strike).
And for our international friends, you should join one as well, as fascism is gaining momentum globally. If your country isn’t listed below, just contact the IWW directly in the link above, and they’ll help you set up a new local branch.
Adopt Security Culture and Digital Camouflage 🛡️
Sometimes benign seeming efforts can turn into unexpected personal data collecting traps. Like an obscure website for exchanging contact info with other students turning into a global ad-tech surveillance network (Facebook), or innocent seeming online personality tests being use to harvest character profiles. Even Etsy, Reddit, Tinder, and Duolingo are feeding information to US Government Agencies like ICE.
Security culture is commonly used to describe the general awareness of such potential traps and how it can affect groups or entire communities. This goes beyond mere individual privacy efforts, as without joint efforts these often fail to work.
Especially in activist circles, security culture is paramount. For opsec reasons not everyone in the group might be aware of what clandestine efforts others are involved in, but with a general security culture many potential data leaks can be avoided.
Movements are made by the volume of their participants, and the easier and less dangerous it is to participate, the more people will get involved. As more people get involved, individual involvement becomes even less dangerous, creating a virtuous cycle.
We’ll start it off with some General Advice:
- Mentally wall off personal uniquely identifying info from your online presence, actively build a habit of opsec so that withholding information is your default mental state
- Be careful about who you meet online
- Use different, unrelated usernames, passwords & emails for every account. And try not to connect to those accounts with your real IP address (use Tor or a VPN)
- Be mindful that anything done online leaves a trail
- agents provocateurs may seek to find patsies willing to perform an ill-advised illegal activity in order to legitimize police repression. If someone is trying to pressure you, especially if you don’t have a long and proven history with them, be extremely wary.
For a full guide on what encrypted communications platforms to use, and how to stay off the radar, read the Digital Camouflage section within the Monthly Meta post here (you’ll need to scroll down. I’d add it here, but it won’t fit in this comment).
Nobody is blaming you for what Trump is doing. Nobody is asking you to become terrorists and this hyperbole is extremely unhelpful. We are blaming you for the fact that we’re not seeing protests every day that make the BLM protests seem like small gatherings. You guys are way past the point of being able to hope. Do something today. This is your country, so it’s your responsibility.
We are blaming you for the fact that we’re not seeing protests every day…
This is just not possible and the rich are banking on that. It would have to become much much worse before people will risk their own employment, access to medical benefits, and personal security so that we can march.
It’s easy to suggest those things but in reality it’s just not going to happen.
People in far worse circumstances than Americans got out in the streets and forced change.
The time to act is now, not in the future when they’re even more entrenched.
Sure, but name one that is as big and spread out like the US? We are unique in that regard.
what does it matter? if you live in buttfuck then march in buttfuck with the rest of your buttfuck habitants… where do you get that you have to travel to DC to march?
Isn’t the whole point of the states that they basically operate like a bunch of smaller countries? You don’t have to protest enough to budge the feds, you just need to protest enough to remind your state that they can and should stand up against the feds.
Yes, and that’s happening in states with a federal presence. Look at the resistance in Minnesota or Chicago or LA or the DC area for example. But each state being their own independent polity means that what happens in Minnesota is not under the purview of any other government office until you get to Congress. I could riot at my state Capitol for eternity and that doesn’t change their power or jurisdiction, they can’t control Minnesota.
If most Americans wanted to resist the fed their best tangible option would be… A post office maybe? For all the glitz and bombast of ICE and other DHS jack boots there are probably sub 10k agents on the ground. If all 340 million Americans decided to oust the fed there are only about 8500 buildings to burn down nation wide, and most of those concentrated in a few specific states.
So unless you’re talking about balkanization and secession via inter-state compacts, there isn’t a ton of room for the headline-grabbing resistance that people want to see. And if it got to that point, every major US city would be rioting and ungovernable anyway.
Agreed
The really striking thing about the contingent of non-Americans in this thread who are blaming all Americans, even specifically those who oppose Trump, is that I can’t imagine a psyop doing a better job of fracturing the American left and isolating the US.
I think Lemmy is still small enough that the people who are vomiting on the anti-Trump Americans and insisting on collective blame are probably real people, who don’t know how to direct their anger (which is quite depressing). But to explain, I actually can’t think of what Russia would do differently to accomplish (1) transposing anger against Trump into anger against all Americans, which helps (2) sever international support to internal American anti-Trump protesters, and thereby (3) weaken internal American resistance to Trump by making those of us here who opposed Trump feel and be even more isolated.
Solidarity across borders seems like a better approach. Seems like you would feed the tree you want to grow, and starve the invasive weed you don’t, instead of just relieving oneself on both. But what do I know, I’m just a stupid American.
Yes much better said that I can produce in my current emotional state. This is a class war and they are abusing Americans by separating us from those that care about us (our allies).
From a non-American’s viewpoint, most Americans seem very content to only vent online about how they didn’t vote for this but they don’t seem to be holding their congress and senate representatives to task to get Trump out of office, now. There is a possibility of a general strike on Friday - it should be throughout the USA. In every city. Let your reps know that you are not just attending the odd protest but that citizen demand change immediately. They can impeach or Amendment 25 him out right now. No waiting for the slight possibility that there might still be an election in November. Trump isn’t obeying any other laws or the constitution so he can’t be expected to hold and then abide by an election many more months away. Americans do not seem, from the world’s view, to be treating Trump with the urgency that is needed.
They can impeach or Amendment 25 him out right now
This mindset that the “American defeatist voter” is the issue is so blatantly out of touch with the USA’s reality that it’s exactly what other US commenters are trying to point out. That part of the game has been over for a while. Federal representatives quite literally shut the door, leave the assembly or move away when they’re pressured. They don’t need your vote any more, their job is to rubber stamp whatever happens; the plutocrats pay them well enough to insulate them from repercussions.
There’s no political leverage to oust them or anyone else in the fed. If you want them out the answer is adventurism and there’s no citizenship requirement for that, buy yourself a plane ticket if you think that urgency is required.
Knowing that, the American citizen’s pressing concern is resistance, community safety and solidarity. Regardless of how scary things are for the rest of the world, we’re stuck in the eye of the hurricane for the foreseeable future. Maybe the post-Trump fascist dictator will be less aggressive to your country but we’ll be under the same boot. Our goals are framed in the longterm view by necessity.
I’ve contacted my “representatives” multiple times. Every time, the response is nothing or 🖕. I go to protests. I move my spending accordingly. I also have two parents getting very old who need care, a wife, and a pesky need to feed ourselves. Fleeing the country is not an option right now.
The guy literally has said you’ll never have to vote again and has recently been teasing the idea of skipping the upcoming election. If american streets are still empty of angry citezens after that election is canceled, we are truly cooked.
A widespread general strike will likely never happen because most people would be fired on the spot if they told their boss they were going on a strike. If you get fired, you don’t qualify for unemployment, and most people are only a single paycheck away from being homeless. I guess people from a lot of countries do not understand this concept because they had the privilege of actual workers rights.
We’ve been protesting. The frustration you have from thinking we’re doing nothing is the same frustration we have with the so called Representatives sitting with their thumbs up their asses. They don’t care what we think. They straight up make fun of us for trying. With the exception of Greenland and Canada, the rest of the world does not understand the pure rage, frustration, and fear we’re dealing with every single day. If you’re somewhere like mainland Europe, you’re in a far safer place than we are right now. You don’t have to worry about if and when your friends and family will get randomly kidnapped by ICE. You don’t have to worry about when you too will get put in a concentration camp simply for having leftist political views. If the US actually goes through with invading Greenland, what do you think that is going to mean for those inside of the US? The country would immediately tear apart. All US bonds would immediately get dumped, and there would be a worldwide economic collapse. The only silver lining would be that the American war machine would also hopefully collapse. It may be large, but it’s expensive to run. The entire US would turn into something that looks like the Bosnian War. Due to the US facing an internal collapse, Canada would likely be able to resist occupation, and Greenland would be won back from any kind of conquest. While awful things would happen in mainland Europe, they would pale in comparison to whatever happened in the US. We’re dealing with fascists, and there would probably be hundreds of Tiananmen Square type events. This last few months has involved coming to terms that we probably will never have a chance to live a full life because we’ll be dead long before old age ever comes.
We’re not a country of soldiers. We’re just regular people. Despite whatever you might think, most people do not own guns or know how to use them. Do you expect people to leave their children homeless and without food over a 1 day strike? Do you understand that if a war happens, most of us will probably end up dead simply from being inside of the US? And even if there isn’t a war, we may 2 years or less until we get put in a concentration camp simply for being against Trump. I fucking worry every day that my friends could get disappeared at any moment. You see stuff in the news about Minneapolis, but ICE is in every city. Over 1000 miles away, they’ve been going door to door near some of my closest friends. To suggest we are content is batshit. We are not okay with anything. I’m not going to apologize for the threats of an orange megalomaniac that I continually try to resist.
If you’re outside of the US, you absolutely can do stuff. Stop buying things that feed the monster. Build defenses and deterrents against US aggression. And get the money out of your own politics too. Stay vigilant. You don’t want to go down this road, and it’s closer than you’d think. If the US goes to war, it won’t win. We might all be dead, but maybe the world will reset and fascism will fall.
There’s literally hordes of people outside teslas and other locations in near every place i go and I’m in the south. You don’t know anything.
As a non-American, you’re basing your perspective on what exactly?
We’ve got dead Americans out there and these people “doesn’t look like anything to me”.
Yea… cops being detained by ICE, cops fighting ICE, citizens being shot, protests in every major city… “nothing happening at all.”
Sorry our sternly worded emails aren’t having immediate effect in a system that is completely immobilized right now. 🤷♂️
I really don’t understand what’s stopping any of these revolutionary, non-Americans from coming over and taking matters into their own hands. The prevailing belief seems to be that everybody on the west coast, north east, and in the blue states should just be quitting their jobs, sacrificing their healthcare and their homes, driving 5 days to DC, and getting themselves into situations they’ll be KOS.
In fairness, CBP would stop them at the border. They wouldn’t even get an ESTA approved if they answered truthfully.
They don’t need to psyop if they just stress us out enough to lash out against each other instead.
I blame my fellow Americans who didn’t vote.
As a non-American, I’m not angry at all Americans. In fact, some have been very brave and selfless. I’m angry at Republican officials and voters, billionaires, millionaires, spineless Democrats, and non-voters. We’re in this position because of them. Unfortunately, that makes up a huge part of the American population. I applaud and admire the minority who are actually doing something, even if it’s only to offer a bottle of water to the protestors or donating goods, but it’s frustrating seeing that most are just letting it happen, whether it’s because they agree with it or don’t want to join the activists. I empathise with their need to go to work, take care of their families, and look out for their safety, but I’m sure that those out in the streets have these responsibilities as well.
Were you not already aware that Trump is a Russian asset?
I feel for Americans who are stuck there. What else do you want from me? We are watching what is happening and wondering why Americans continue to allow it. We get upset because we think it’s going to become our problem.
We don’t have a lot of sympathy or love list with you guys right now and we have our own to take care of, honestly.
At best you’re a security risk.
We were friends the whole time. We all went to Afghanistan and got our boys killed. Now you directly threaten my country and you don’t think I show enough sympathy and solidarity?
This was supposed to be a pro-sane-americans post but I think I kind of convinced myself Naw, fuck yas
What else do you want from me?
Refrain from discouraging people just now showing up for action, and heaping loads of scorn and mockery on what appear to be tiny efforts for you. It’s big for that guy, who has never done anything like that before and never thought he’d have to. There are 340 million Americans spread across a massive continent, some of whom are just now waking up to the real threat our president is presenting not just to us but to the world. Many of them have been living in a propaganda bubble. Some, unbelievably, still are.
And if you’re European, do something about the threat in your own backyard, Putin. Our president is a Russian asset, and everything he is doing with his presidential power, literally everything, benefits Putin. Putin’s been firehosing us with propaganda for ten years, and now it’s paying off in spades: he got his own monkey voted into office. But he’s still your threat, more than ours. If you were to find a way to stop Putin’s propaganda machine today, both of them would be out of office by next week. I’m not even joking. It’s so bad in the US now that the instant the propaganda stopped it would be the end of this regime.
I’m pretty sure that we, the regular individual Americans you are sermonizing here, are the only ones who can stop the orange filth now. Washington can’t; they’re too corrupt. It’s up to us regular folk now. So what can you say and do that will help us win that fight? If you can’t or don’t want to, fine. But stop shitting on the people who are just waking up and don’t know where to start.
So… You’re not in favor of sane Americans?
Those Epstein files must be absolutely fucking insane for Donny.
…except Epstein files are the distraction.
Maybe the Epstein files were the friends we made along the way.
We got <1% of the files, heavily redacted and it was still fucking wild. I cannot imagine how batshit fucking crazy the actual files are
What if Q was someone deeply embedded in the Epstein shit, but also a right-wing fascist so they just spun it all as Democrats doing all the evil shit?
Sounds like you’re describing the whole “every accusation is a confession…” projection shit that the GOP has been doing for 40 years.
We know who Q is. It’s Ron Watkins.
This is what i think is close to the truth because I was there at the beginning of pizza gate. The story now is completely different. It started with a republican owned pizza place that had a basement and everything. Then all of a sudden it’s comet over here! And look at this! A crazy has shown up to shoot! Oh now you’re the asshole if you bring up that conspiracy!
Fucking convenient that shit was. That was before Q too.
(Oh this was before/during the clear /r/conspiracy shift/takeover of the right wing) ahhhhhh they now you sound crazy if you talk about it. Fuck em.
Probably like even worse than the Sasha Riley accusations.
It’s not just insane for him… pretty much all of the political power of the Middle East is also in those files. It has a reach that goes beyond borders of the US so they’re actually scared about what will happen when Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani, Muhammad bin Nayef, Netanyahu, etc all show up in pictures and financial records.
It’s the entire worlds power more likely.
Ya, you’re probably right
The orange thing must’ve raped loads of children to go to these lengths to distract from it all.
There was a tip line call about him being present for the execution of his own bastard newborn and then discarding it into a lake. I mean yeah that’s not evidence but who makes that shit up? Knowing that he was putting girls into those kinds of situations etc and then calls the FBI tip line with it?
Like, you really gonna call them up with a lie about the one of the most prominent people in American society? How do you think that’s gonna go for you?
So, yeah my conclusion is that there is stuff in there that would make rotten.com look tame.
The thing is, in the current US i don’t see him being affected by it no matter how horrific the contents are
Donald Trump is America’s Jimmy Savile.
so hot they’re literally on fire right now.
Unfortunately I’m thinking this means they have some kind of info that a credible attack is imminent. Fuck.
Easy - I’m danish and the PM from both Denmark and Greenland just said, that they can’t rule out an armed attack, but only because the US doesn’t rule it out. Very different from telling people to prepare for an invasion.
Clickbait strikes again?
This brings back memories about when Russia was about to attack Ukraine.
Dear Americans, go fuck yourselves.
Even if you didn’t vote for this imbecile child, nobody cares. You’re all in this shit together!
We are sick and tired of your excuses.
This is your president and this is your country behaving like this.
This is what no theory does to a mf
The American people as a whole are not the ones to blame for their capitalist dictators doing imperialism. You can and absolutely should shame all of the individual fascists that support even a little of what’s going on, Republican or not, but there are so many people who are against this and are also victims within this capital of global imperialism, either by being driven to poverty despite there being enough resources for everyone to thrive, either by literally being hunted in the streets by state goons.
You should instead be giving inspiration to the American people so that they unite, organize and resist, to liberate both themselves and also the rest of the world from their own rulers.
Getting real fucking sick of Europeans saying shit like this. You spent the last 70 years benefiting from the U.S.'s obscene military spending, and now you’re whining that the superpower has gone mad and come for you. Well, it turns out the imperial boomerang doesn’t just describe the people getting beaten and shot by militarized thugs in American streets. It also describes the countries that sat back and watched the U.S. empire grow, occasionally clucking their tongues in disapproval while happily lapping up the benefits of an imperialist ally.
The empire has come for all of us now. Find solidarity with those who want to fight it or surrender, but throwing up your hands and saying, “it’s not my fault, you fix it,” sure as shit isn’t helping anyone.
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As a Native American whose citizenship is being argued against in the Supreme Court, whose people have been fighting against the invasion of white people from Europe for centuries and only got the right to vote in 1975: go fuck yourself.
*whose citizenship / whose people
DAMNIT! I am going to blame autocorrect.
Native American who’s citizenship is being argued against in the Supreme Court
You should go back to your home country or something like that. /s
This seems as ignorant as the parent comment. Just like they ignored the native population, you’re ignoring whole countries full of white peoples who did not partake in any form of colonialism.
What fault of ours is the invasion of your country by other white people from Europe hundreds of years ago? Our ancestors were the ones who stayed in Europe
Edit: a lot of people seemed to have found the downvote button, but no one seems to have found the answer.
Edit #2: still more downvotes, but nobody has answered my question, just some comments about colonialism and my stupidity.
People are entirely missing the point: why should a grudge against some random other white people that have nothing to do with us stop you from rising up against this white person? Why should we go fuck ourselves because of that? Wake up and do something and stop making excuses.
No one is saying it’s your fault dumbass we’re saying not to blame people being targeted by the fucking Nazis in the USA for this mess. Would you blame the Jewish, Romani, and queer people that got targeted by Nazis for WW2? Think before you comment.
No you idiot I’m talking about the part that we are told to go fuck ourselves because of the invasion of white people into America. Of course I wouldn’t blame Jewish people for WW2, but telling people to go fuck themselves because some other random ass people invaded your country 100s of years ago is moronic.
You guys still have the power to rise up but are making all kinds of excuses so you don’t have to. A Native American person is still perfectly capable of protesting against this regime.
Don’t compare yourselves to the Jewish people in WW2 because things that happened in the camps and on the streets there are far, far worse. Comparing what’s happening in America right now to those atrocities is beyond dumb. Think before you fucking comment.
Moreover, it’s not a europe problem it’s a class problem. It wasn’t the builders, gardeners, and plumbers of Europe deciding to subjugate the world. It was the oligarchs. They were squeezing all they could out of Europe and it wasn’t enough for them. So they dressed it up as duty to the country/religion to expand, but it was a way of enriching themselves.
Many Scottish crofters were also forced off their land during the sheep clearances when the lairds figured out that removing the population and replacing them with sheep was more profitable. They would either buy up the land and evict the crofters or charge them for fabricated crimes and send them to Australia. The place I grew up has a population of around 10% of what it should be because of this practice (that’s after steady growth in the last few decades).
It’s also worth mentioning that a lot of the settlers from Scotland who joined the Hudson Bay company for example, did so because they couldn’t earn enough to survive at home. Both because of taxes from the lairds and low wages.
So yes Europeans moved to America, but for most of them it was a matter of survival, not greed.
I keep seeing so many people saying to hell with all Americans, no matter who, and I feel like this best counters that sentiment. Those in power would love to see us bicker and fight each other over nationality while they reap in the riches. In reality, we’re all on the same side against the oligarchs. We’ve all been fucked over by the rich.
There is no war but the class war. Stand together and unite.
Now don’t get me wrong. If I see American uniforms in my hometown, then I don’t give a fuck if it’s some 18 year old kid who joined for a university scholarship. I’m going to come up behind him with a piano wire. Just because it’s not their decision to be there doesn’t mean I have to put up with it. If you don’t want your kids dying in Europe, do something about your leadership.
Oh absolutely. Being American and an American soldier are two very distinct things. Ones a choice, and the other many of us were born into.
Ah yes I see European solidarity is alive and well. No chance you’ll ever have fascism again over there with statements like that. Truly a bastion of the brightest and best ideals of humanity.
/s
^ This is what colonialism looks like, yt people
YouTube people?
^This is what stupidity looks like
Colonialism? Are you serious? Or seriously out of your mind? Just because some random ass people who happened to come from my country went to another country I have to take “go fuck yourself” from an American who won’t do anything about Trump and get called a colonialist on top of that?
F that
Oooooo what country are you from so we can all cast our judgements?
A country with a horrible colonial past, as all European countries
Dude, not every country in Europe was a colonial power
your willful ignorance towards the indigenous is moreso what im referring to
Where am I denying or showing ignorance towards any of it?
You unknowingly told all indigenous people to go fuck themselves. An indigenous person told you that they are struggling and to go fuck yourself. You got your panties twisted and instead of saying " my bad, I agree you guys aint the problem" you doubled down.
Your mindset is one of willful ignorance towards the plight of the indigenous people of the americas. It is a colonizers mindset. Your ignorance towards them makes you feel comfortable looping them in with all the european immigrants that came over and their offspring without a second thought.
Dude, calm down. I know all of this is anxiety inducing. Americans are dealing with a lot of shit in their own country too. Our energy is better spent on encouraging Americans to keep protesting and resisting.
To be honest the time for protesting and resisting was about 10 years ago. Once they’re done weeding out undesirables over appearances they’ll go for ideologies and values soon.
Yeah but they aren’t. Once a quarter getting together to wave signs isn’t protesting. They aren’t resisting. Look to almost every other country to see what actual protests are. What actual resistance is.
Permits to hold a rally with signs isn’t it.
Yeah but they aren’t.
That’s some confidently incorrect shit right there.
How the fuck do you know what’s happening or not happening when media refuses to cover it, or worse, does cover it but downplays it in such a way that thousands of people showing up turns into “some protesting occurred today in downtown Minneapolis.”
Actual resistance is what got the National Guard ordered out of LA, Portland, and Chicago, and why ICE is increasingly departing Minneapolis proper for places further out in more rural Minnesota. But you don’t know that, because you’re sopping up headlines and nothing else, if that much.
Look to almost every other country to see what actual protests are. What actual resistance is.
At this point, all I have to do is look past you and at my neighbors and fellow citizens: we know what we’re up against in ways that are clearly over your own head, and we’re showing up. We don’t need your discouragement and ignorance but if that’s all you have, that’s all you have.
Ok bud. If you think you’re doing enough to fight fascism by holding a sign, good for you.
Your elected government has 42% approval rating.
Your opposition party has posted a few memes.
There has been lots of strongly worded letters.
No one can come to save you. If you think you’re doing enough, i support you.
Hopefully your demonstrating will finally end the fascist regime.
I know what id do if it happened in my country.
Waaaah Waaaah Waaaah
You’re free to go march down to your local government office and demand that every US plutocrat’s assets be siezed today. Are you doing that? I’m going to play by your rules and assume no because I didn’t see a headline. I really doubt you “know what you’d do” if you can’t even do that much tough guy
Yes we are. The news just doesn’t report on it.
Until they go on a nationwide general strike, sustained until it reaches its objective, they are condoning the administration
As an American who didn’t vote for him, I understand your anger. I feel it too but there are still genuinely good caring people here who do not agree with this monster. Please don’t hold it against all of us.
I’m Danish and I refuse to make this about nationality. I’ve had an immeasurable amount of American friends over the years. I’ve loved your music, your company, your viewpoints, your stories - and I’ve had nothing but respect for you. I’ve been on American social media with you for decades. I’ve laughed at the same jokes as you. I speak your language, I sing your songs, I share an incredible amount of your culture. We learned to celebrate Halloween from you. We wear your clothes. We are your friends.
This is where you’d expect to see a “but”, but there is no “but”. I just wanted to say this, because I refuse to be divided by national borders. The America I see now, is not the America I grew up with. And now I’m fucking crying. It feels like losing a good friend, to some sort of neurological illness. We will always share your values. Not MAGA values, but OUR values.
Fuck, now I’m crying too. I’ve lost friends and family to this mental illness. There is much to mourn. The values that you and I share are not the values of the Americans who wield national power right now, nor their cult. Many of us are fighting for our values over here. And your unconditional message of friendship means so much. Thank you. I feel the same way. Fuck the imaginary lines on the map. I pledge allegiance to YOU, and to any other individual, wherever they are, who believes in basic human decency: honesty, respect, compassion, non-aggression… against the psychopaths who don’t.
Your friends are still here, but they’re not in charge. Violent, armed bullies have taken over and are driving this country - with the rest of us in it - off a cliff. They aren’t just invading Greenland, they’re invading us. Our homes, our schools, our workplaces, our courts, all invaded. The authorities we armed and entrusted to uphold the law have seen their opportunity to go mask-off and support fascism. Your friends here are outclassed, outgunned, and oppressed.
Remember that America isn’t a monolith. If you were to put a bullet in the head of every US soldier to set foot on Greenland, we will celebrate your victory. Because we care about humanity, and our armed forces have given theirs up to fulfill a hateful dream. They’ve made their decision and deserve whatever’s coming to them.
Thank you. Borders are stupid, we are all humans and we only have one floating rock. Also, I love the Danes I’ve met.
Thanks.
And reading the stories of ICE is absolutely terrifying to us too. We are reaching a point where democrats may be forced to consider their 2nd amendment rights.
Democrats would have to effectively organize and train in a large enough group to not just be instantly wiped out or imprisoned as “insurrectionists”. Technically it would be an insurrection, but with some outside help or military backing it could turn into a coup.
Does the rest of the world want a destabilized civil warring nuclear state? It’s not likely to stay contained even in the western hemisphere.
The European aristocracy was “absolutely gleeful in pronouncing the American debacle as proof that the entire experiment in popular government had failed. European government leaders welcomed the fragmentation of the ascendant American Republic.”[134]
History rhyming again I guess.
Take that feeling like losing a good friend, and now imagine it’s your own mind you’re losing. Everything you held close and understood is upside down. It’s disorienting, because they (fascist regime) intended it to be disorienting to paralyze any organized effective response.
I miss the America I grew up in. 80s were amazing. Like 1996-2010 felt so hopeful, bush years were bad an helped enable alot of what is happening now but I’d gladly take him over what we have now
bush years were bad an helped enable alot of what is happening now but I’d gladly take him over what we have now
Bush is a blood drenched monster responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands, and the immiseration of millions. You are essentially pining for chaos abroad instead of domestic chaos.
Agreed. It definitely feels like we’re losing a good friend. Signed Norwegian dude
In any war there are soldiers who don’t wanna be there. Good, honest people, forced to march on because their masters will it.
If they come for my country I will have to shoot them nonetheless.
Take this motherfucker down by any political means necessary and if you can’t, then form your “well regulated militia” that your all too precious 2nd amendment affords you and take back your own country instead of others
As an American, l say that any soldiers that willingly take part in this invasion, even in a support role, are NOT “good honest people”. They are traitors following illegal orders. I fully support you defending your country with lethal force if it comes to that.
I wish that I had more power to stop this, but I don’t. Do what you have to do, and don’t feel guilty about it. Give us the hell we deserve.
Isn’t every invasion like that?
Propaganda machine tells you the enemy is the worst ever, so children pick up the guns and march into death.
Your government is threatening to invade its allies! Our countrymen died fighting side by side with your military in your misguided wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
We don’t have the patience and time to distinguish between good and evil Americans anymore. As long as your country keeps acting like this you’re all guilty!
Please read up about collective German guilt a term coined by the US when your country was still on the right side of history.
Americans spout all about needing their guns to stop a tyrannical government and then a tyrannical governmnet comes along and they don’t take their guns into the streets to stop it.
The venn diagram of Americans who think they need guns to stop a tyrannical government and Americans who support Trump is a circle.
(All kidding aside, while this is still painfully close to true, there are signs it’s changing, such as the recent resurgence of the Black Panthers. However by and large the people who are horrified over the pain and suffering inflicted by the Trump administration are also anti-gun on account of all the pain and suffering they cause. The peaceful, anti-violence, anti-war types are not exactly well equipped–literally or figuratively–to stage an uprising against the government, certainly not one with a military budget the size of Mt Everest)
Because the people afraid of a tyrannical government started supporting the tyrannical. Not to say I hate or am against guns but to think a yokel was going to make a difference in a country this big is absurd. The police are a military force themselves.
I often wonder if the Oklahoma City bombing would happen today by Tim Mcveigh. I mean this is literally the government they feared it’s just that they are targeting the people they hate so they don’t care. If it was the other way around it def would. And Oklahoma has embraced his ideas hell they might have shut down the FBI office in the last few years.
What am I or we supposed to do? The majority of us are broke. I don’t have money to travel to a blue state right now to help resist.
I have a family I very much love and a daughter I want to watch grow up. I know others are losing their ability to be with their families but I’m not putting that at risk unless I absolutely have to and if it was going to make a difference
The sane Americans here are saying, “Hey, we’re your allies in this, we are trying to help,” and you’re literally saying, “No, you’re the enemy.” This is basically moral reasoning on the level of “my daughter crashed the car so I’m going to hit my son with a baseball bat.” It’s too much work on your part to distinguish between innocent and guilty? That’s some very firm moral high ground you’re lobbing spears from.
Not only is that nonsensical from a moral standpoint, but it’s terrible strategic thinking. You just prefer it if we’re all to be enemies? You’re asking both you (who is allegedly so infuriated because you are demanding a solution) and us (the people best positioned to try to help solve this) to waste our time fighting amongst each other. Great idea.
But to be clear, I understand when you spew hatred like this, you’re not thinking. You’re lashing out emotionally because you’re upset. Now the question is, will you acknowledge this, or will you respond by increasing the volume and digging in deeper?
Every time I see this argument I’m reminded of Martin Luther King’s Letter from a Birmingham Jail. If “trying to help” is limited to thoughts and prayers online, it isn’t help, it’s just masturbation.
I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
I understand it may remind you of that, but it’s not an apt comparison.
I’ve been advocating direct non-violent action here like MLK was doing (and, reminder, I assume non-violent protest won’t satisfy the angry non-Americans here who are telling us to “arm up”). I don’t think anyone is advocating for “wait[ing] for a more convenient season” - we know fascism is here, but the question is what is the move that (a) doesn’t cause it to dig in deeper like a tick, and (b) maximizes the good that we pay for with the risk to ourselves and others.
And yes, we’re all talking online, that’s what Lemmy is. I have called what I am doing “therapy” which I would suggest it in fact is, rather than “masturbation.” Living in the US and not being MAGA right now feels like being a battered family member, but usually participating here at least reminds me of sanity. (Though maybe not when we’re being told we’re awful because our abuser made a mess while they were abusing us.) I come here to vent and commiserate - that’s not mutually exclusive from taking action.
I wake up and go to sleep (very poorly) fighting learned helplessness and awful emotions because I see the same headlines we all do here, and whatever the world feels seeing it, it’s happening here to us first.
I’m not asking to be a victim, not that anyone is offering any empathy to non-Trump Americans in this thread. I’m just saying, hey, maybe those of us in the US who are doing what we rationally can to stop Trump don’t need another abuser? I guess that’s my message for comrade_twisty and others gleefully (but definitely not masturbatorily!) piling on the “all Americans can fuck themselves” bandwagon.
Not to dogpile you too much here - I understand this is difficult - but part of the problem is framing this as a Trump issue. It really isn’t. Even with all this insanity, he still enjoys a 40% approval rating! This doesn’t end only by cutting off MAGA’s head, ahtough that would help - it also means salting the earth where it grows by finally eradicating the christofascist, patriarchal, racist current in the population that has been there since the country’s founding and before. That fight is just as important as going to DC and [REDACTED].
The fact that his approval rating is FORTY FUCKING PERCENT is absolutely crazy. Makes me so sad for my fellow human.
Great, I agree with everything you just said. Constructive discussion! I’d like for that to be what we spend our energy on.
What about the Americans how are standing up and doing something and not sitting back.
I wholeheartedly applaud and support them! They’re absolutely not the ones I’m referring to. Those I take issue with are the ones who do nothing but seek a pat on the head for being “one of the good ones”. I don’t care that you voted for Kamala or repost every Occupy Democrats meme you see. I care about praxis.
Our countrymen died fighting side by side with your military in your misguided wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I really wish NATO nations would have criticized those wars, instead of knowingly sending their troops to die in wars based on lies.
Was that coined before or after we invited all the nazis here to help with with space program?
And now you understand what we Germans feel when Americans ask what our ancestors did during the 1930s and 40s.
Than maybe its time to take some good and caring actions? It’s not enought to see it and be bothered by it.
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What comic is this?
Superman black white and blue (eddit: or maybe red? )
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Just wanted to say - no idea what’s going on in the comments, don’t take it too hard. People are angry. Just as I would not condemn every Russian because Putin is a giant asshole, I wouldn’t condemn every US american. Especially not those in the fediverse - it’s likely you suffer as well under your dictator.
It’s hard to make that distinction. Even in Germany under the jackboot of National Socialism there were still good people, some even dared to take action while others dragged their feet as much as possible without endangering themselves and their loved ones. This is where the difference between guilt and responsibility arises. In my opinion not all US Americans are guilty, just like not all Germans were, yet all US Americans share a responsibility to rid themselves of their political polarisation and the hatred at its root, just like the good people of Germany managed to do in the decades after the war.
I agree. However one can address this responsibility in many ways, depending on ones skills and situation in life. Telling people to just go out on the streets and overthrow the government or get rid of their leaders is an easy appeal, but not everybody is able to translate that into action. Caring for yourself, for your family, your neighbors and your community is what most people care for in the first place. In hindsight it’s always easy to say you would have joined the resistance. Many young Germans today would claim they would have prevented the rise of the Nazis, but I doubt very many of them would have done so.
I’m absolutely with you on that point. The primary concern for the vast majority of people will always be for themselves and their loved ones. It’s the reason fatalistic compliance is so common in dictatorships. I’m convinced that in most countries, including modern day Germany and the modern day United States, people can be led into fatalistic compliance. In France on the other hand I wouldn’t be so certain. Imagine a scenario in which Marine or one of her stooges wins the presidential elections and tries to pull off the same march into fascism as we’re currently seeing from the party formerly known as the Republicans, there would be a general strike and major upheaval in no time.
I don’t condemn every Russian because Putin is a giant asshole, I condemn them because they’re content to “stay out of politics” and let Putin use their country to commit atrocities against their innocent neighbours. I condemn all of those who haven’t taken at least the same risks and efforts that their neighbours are forced to take to defend themselves.
I understand that there are a lot of Americans who did not vote for him or support his actions. But he’s your monster. You need to deal with him.
If you do nothing and stand back while he invades other countries and force them to fight the battles you won’t, then you are neither a good nor caring person.
We know there are lots of great Americans. The world needs you to get off your asses and fix your shit.
Please don’t hold it against all of us.
Sorry, running out of sympathy here. All my life Americans have talked a big game about how anti-tyrant they are, how their democracy is so wonderful and in the event that it fails they’ve got their precious guns to go set things right. Land of the free, home of the brave.
You don’t get to talk that big game and then flip over to “please don’t hold it against us!” Without getting called on it. I keep seeing Americans begging for other countries to come in and “save” them. Isn’t that the problem? Sort your own problems out. The only thing the rest of the world is obligated to do is keep you contained.
Who is begging for a foreign savior? You’re arguing against a strawman caricature you made up in the shower.
Blah blah blah.
Good caring people that allow bad things to continue to happen are not good people
What realistic actions do you expect an average American who opposes Trump to take?
They expect us all to commit suicide by cop but don’t want to come out and say it. If we haven’t died yet, we haven’t done enough.
I think most genuinely don’t understand what it’s like living in a country the size of a continent, with hundreds of millions of people scattered all over, with a heavily militarized police force that has been trained to see anyone but themselves as a threat, surrounded by a significant portion of the population that would love the opportunity to murder you without legal consequences and the tools to do so, with your healthcare, shelter, food, and basically everything tied to your employment that could end on a whim, in a system designed to keep you perpetually exhausted so you can’t even begin to imagine a world where you are fairly treated, let alone have the energy to fight for it in any meaningful way.
I mean most Europeans live in countries the size of a single state, with relatively high population densities (comparatively speaking). “Americans think 100 years is a long time, Europeans think 100km is a long distance” and all that. I’ve traveled daily for work what some of my UK friends won’t travel to see family on holidays. The US is insanelt large, and any sort of organization is already an uphill battle from that alone. Get into the fact that most people can’t take a day off work without risking their livelihoods, and that opposition is armed and begging to be let loose, and protesting alone is hard to do.
Historically, any left-leaning organization that arms themselves gets heavily targeted by the Alphabet Squad (FBI, NSA, BATFE, etc) and individuals get harassed and tossed into prisons for the smallest infractions simply due to association with the leftist group.
Anyone who doesn’t look at the history of government opposition in the US when they demand action, all while saying we aren’t doing enough because protesting isn’t enough, is (hopefully ignorantly) telling you to go kill yourself.
Yup, that’s the only option. One desperate inflatable frog suit charge into a hail of bullets.
General strike, demonstrations where they can’t be ignored, organised resistance, organised campaigning, even striking in solidarity with others.
Oh. You’re all struggling too much to be able to do that?
That’s you being oppressed, and you could organise against that: you could organise war chests for striking, unionise to regain rights, vote or campaign for actual peoples representation rather than corporate such, build resilient communities, picket biased media, organise or join collective action, prosecute and pressure corrupt politicians, counter lobbies, educating yourself and others, etc.
Gather neighbours, save funds, support eachother, resist where you can and coordinate with others to have a greater impact.
But most aren’t going to, cus there’s always someone else to blame, someone else that should save the day. And while you’re passing blame, the fascists consolidate, divide and terrorise, both your domestic neighbours and international friends. Leaving you more vulnerable, more isolated, and with less and less support to resist or survive.
The French would have general striked and yellow vested the country to a grinding halt by now. Folks in the United States either lack the courage or confidence or interests or all of the above combined.
I don’t think a lot of people realize how big the US is. Organizing a group of a size enough to actually make a difference takes time.
I’ve spent a lot of time in the US for work about a decade ago, mostly in the midwest. I’m fully aware of the spread out nature of the country. Even “cities” often feel like a patchwork of suburbs outside of the urban core and population density is generally quite low. Nonetheless, things like strikes require people to actively not do anything, which should be possible. Even the yellow vest movement in France was most successful in the rural and suburban areas, more similar to the US in density. I believe it’s more about a culture of compliance, complacency and fatalism.
Yes, that’s why revolutions have only been successful in much smaller countries like Russia and China.
Russia actually isn’t as spread out as the US in a way. You can literally ignore anything east of the urals, all the cities that matter are in the western part of the country.
You misread my comment, or you’re being disingenuous.
I like that “realistic” caveat that you’ve thrown in there. Does that mean that all that rhetoric about the 2nd Amendment and “the tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants” was never realistic?
No it’s wasn’t. People in the fediverse aren’t likely to be right-wing gun nuts in the first place.
Maybe now’s the time for them to become left-wing gun nuts, then. Or did guns suddenly become hard to come by in America?
Self education that leads you and your friends away from heroic individualism, hypercapitalism, parochialism, cults, and other cultural excesses that lead to authoritarianism. It’s what we’re dealing with around the globe but the USA is struggling to understand.
Nice try, CIA. Answering that question is how I got my Reddit account banned.
Ah yes, the tired old “not all men” argument. Nobody cares. If you’re not actively part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.
Look at all the Americunts downvoting the truth while they eat their MacDonalds hamburgers
You are forcing us to fight your fight. I am not going to waste time trying to determine who is who.
Do something about it.
America has the richest and most heavily armed population on earth. No one feels sorry for your inability to control the actions of your own country.
What in the wet fuck?.. Are you having a fever dream about some alternate reality USA?
Wealth disparity in the USA is higher than basically any country in history. The top 10 people or so have more wealth than the bottom 50%. There are plenty of guns in the USA but the vast majority of people don’t ever come close to owning a gun; the average gun owner has something like 7.5 guns. If you’re looking at the split between pro/anti-fascist demographics the weapon gap is massive.
So yes, the average American is dirt poor and unarmed. Come up with a different way to pin all of your trouble on foreigners.
The people who oppose Trump tend to be the people who don’t own guns.
Then go out and get guns. ASAP.
The fun thing about America is that you can literally just walk to a shop and buy a gun today. The fact that everyone who opposes Trump hasn’t done that says a lot about the real situation on the ground there.
Not true. I live in a state where we require a gun permit in order to purchase a gun. You have to that a gun safety class and fulfill other requirements. This is more a thing in blue states than in red states.
I personally don’t own a gun because someone in my household has a history of suicidal ideation.
You know your situation best but if you do need to arm yourself while protecting others in your house safety equipment like gun safes and trigger locks exist. Depending on the model of gun you may even be able to partially disassemble it and hide the missing piece.
That, and the common refrain of “I can’t go to the protest, I need my job” clearly indicates that freedom has a price tag for them and it’s surprisingly low.
Shameful to pick survival of family over something that will make them homeless, locked up, or killed. /s
And yes, people both in the past and now in some places go that far to try and change things, or to just fight back. But those people also got put against a wall to make those choices, and unfortunately most Americans, even the ones in trouble, aren’t quite at that level yet.
Says in one of the great documents that people “are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.” It’s human nature to deal with things than totally uproot them. This isn’t an excuse against rebelling, it’s just a reason why there isn’t more of it.
As long as it’s other people who are made homeless, locked up, and killed by your government, that’s a price worth paying, eh?
I’m well aware that Americans are just regular people and are going to have all the same regular-person failings that allow authoritarians to take over as well. But Americans have spent generations bragging triumphantly about how different and better they were and how it couldn’t happen there, so I don’t think I’ll be letting that slide quite yet.
Guns will only defer a cultural problem.
Removed by mod
I’m struggling right now to think of any group of people with less excuse for ignorance of how radical fascists wield propaganda and extort for political power than central Europeans.
EDIT: I don’t mean that to be super harsh, and I hope it’s core to the educational curriculum (as it should be in the US too). But maybe I’m wrong.
When you visit your nearest holocaust museum or memorial and refresh your understanding of all that suffering and anguish, how do you feel? Who do you blame? What do you think could stop it from escalating again? Genuinely interested in answers.
But i didn’t vote for this.
Motherfucker, Donald Trump, Joe Biden, Barack Obama, George Bush etc. aren’t terrorising the world, it’s the american people. The people you thank for their service of terrorising people.
And all the other fascist countries that don’t fix their shit either and have been dealing with the fascism longer? Were new to this, give us a min to figure it out.
Many of us Americans are working on it. Meanwhile, it took the EU 14 years to begin to punish Hungary for Orban. The Serbs have been protesting for more than a year and still have yet to lead to lasting change. I could go on.
I know this is going to sound like a lazy American trying to do whataboutism, but I’m really just trying to say political change takes time and part of the danger of all of these leaders is how unresponsive they are and difficult they make it to change—especially the more powerful the state aparatus for violence they wield is.
Additionally, the US has regularly scheduled elections which makes just marginally harder to change governments unlike a ministerial system where snap elections can be called.
We can easily whataboutism to point to all the country leaders who are playing the game with Trump, saying they don’t agree but then when called on it don’t do much of anything to stop him. Compare this to Hitler and his first moves, the same things happened. Other leaders tsked and wagged fingers, the ones that didn’t just shrug it off as a temporary thing. It’s absolutely an American problem that should be dealt with here first and foremost, and that’s more complicated than a forum finger pointing can cover, but there’s blame to go around in different quantities. The whole economic tariff crap as an example - the world needs to stop playing with him and trying to come out profiting by cooperating. Shut it down, stop trading with the US, period. You don’t put out a fire by gently waving at it, you cut off its fuel.
Well said about tariffs. Von der Leyen should just use her “trade bazooka.” letting him set the rules of the game is exactly how he used the media to gain power in the first place: by breaking “norms” they went all Surprised Pikachu and couldn’t stop covering him and look where that got us.
Oh, I’m sorry, I must have missed where Orban blew up innocent people on international water and then straight up kidnapped a president? Or where he openly and publicly threatened to invade and overtake another EU country’s territory? Or when he organized a secret police that is killing the citizens in broad daylight?
Not defending piece of shit Orban, but comparing Trump to him is ridiculous and a cope on your part.
I wasn’t trying to equate the degree of their misdeeds. I was trying to illustrate that political change takes time and a lot of willpower and was pointing to recent examples of other long-term efforts.
If you do want to play that game, which is kind of pointless, let me ask about when Europeans are going stop just letting migrants drown in the Mediterranean?
But I don’t blame all Europeans. I don’t blame all the French, Italians, Maltese, and Greeks. That’s counterproductive and not how we fix these problems. I know there’s a lot of people in those countries trying hard to help save the lives of migrants. Shouting “cope” at people isn’t going to accomplish anything.
What are you even on about. What is anyone supposed to do about people choosing to cross a sea in a pontoon…? It’s not like we’re drone-striking them on those boats - that’s you guys.
You aren’t new to this, hitler got most of his ideas from americans.
You’re right, just like the incessant comparisons between ICE and the Gestapo conveniently gloss over ICE’s much closer resemblance to slave catcher patrols. They refuse to admit this is a very, very old and well-established movement in their country. The problem is that they never decisively put down the Confederacy.
Yeah, but now it’s affecting white people!
Here because Europeans couldn’t get their shit together during the first Nazi time. Abandoning the world when needed? Typical.
Europe has been a vassal state of the US for years. It was clear that America has been spiraling towards fascism, and European leadership did not admit it, even if they recognized it. Europe should have developed their militarizes and not relied on the US military for decades for their protection.
What the US is doing is wrong, and Europe should have seen this was possible, and took actions to prevent it from being possible. Instead of focusing all of your anger towards Americans, reserve some anger for the leadership that has failed you, and allowed this to happen.
You’re confusing the complex dynamics of international relations of democratic EU member states and its 450 million citizens with the psychology of a single person.
The EU isn’t just an entity that can make decisions. European leaders change all the time. Many decisions at the EU level can be vetoed by a single member state. There are many people, even political parties who have wanted a European military for a long time. But… there are others who didn’t.
What you’re seeing is one person, presumably from Europe, who is angry with Americans. There are other Europeans who feel bad for Americans and yet others who don’t read any news at all.
Europeans don’t realize they’re the eastern
romanus empireThe stronger much richer half that lasts for another thousand years?
I dont really care for either of the halves, I’m just saying they are the eastern west, and the us is the western west. They are one half of the western/american empire. After reagan and the cold war ended, nato seems like a raw deal for europe? america got a lot out of it in terms of weapons deals
What do you want me to do about it?
How motivated are you to do something about it?
Highly motivated to have him removed from office permanently but not currently willing to die or go to prison over it.
I’m not a member of Congress, a billionaire, or a member of the administration.
So, what should I do about it?
See the French revolution. See tehran right now. See Hong Kong a couple years ago.
No one is coming to save you. Do something
He already said he’s not willing to risk anything. Fuck him.
We’ve given up, and are depending on the communists to do what they’ve always done with fascist.
Most revolutions only succeed when they have backing from third-party countries. Maybe learn some history before making dumbass, unhelpful remarks 🙄
Fuck you, commie. USA #1
Dear American Administration*
No. You still don’t get it.
Yes, I do get it. I live here and I disagree with the administration.
Last time I checked, literally nobody here is in support of us invading Greenland. Just the muck at the top.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx
Gallup ratings record a 36% approval and 60% disapproval. Also your chart shows a positive trend for disapproval and negative trend for approval, which would indicate people are not content with his decisions, supporters or not.
It’s nice to be able to brag about how democratic your country is until the administration that your democracy put into power starts doing awful things. Then suddenly “please forgive us, this has nothing to do with us.”
I have never once in my entire life bragged about American democracy, or said anything along the lines of “It can’t/won’t happen here.” Ever. You’re regurgitating old US government propaganda and you don’t even realize it.
You’re regurgitating old US government propaganda and you don’t even realize it.
Ironically, this is also “don’t blame us, it was our government.”
You act as if I flaunt US democracy, which I didn’t, and like there’s only 1 party that we could’ve voted for, which there isn’t.
There’s two parties you could have voted for, you put the other one in charge in the previous term and it didn’t help.
The problem is that America is democratic and it’s getting the government that its voters are demanding.
Damned if we did, damned if we didn’t.
There’s these things called “primary elections” you could be using to get better candidates.
Yes…I agree….
Good thing Genocide Joe was stopped
That wasn’t one of the reasons that a bunch of absolute fucking morons didn’t vote.
If the usa was gonna come crashing down, the earlier the better
Can Trump just… not? When is the grim reaper coming for him? PLEASE I hope every night he dies the next day (legally and naturally).
This doesn’t stop with Trump. They voted for Trump and they voted for the congress that protects him. They will just pick another person that does the same thing, but probably sounds less stupid while doing it. This is an America problem.
Their voting is rigged. The people should not rely on that system
I and many people I know have spent our whole lives trying to change the rigged system of FPTP/single-member constituency voting with the further distortion of state-based apportionment.
The issue, as with any rigged system, is that it’s really hard to un-rig unless either the people benefitting from the rigging let it change (lol) or there’s a major upheaval—usually a war. It took WWI for the German voting system to be un-rigged in favor of the Junkers and Belgium to end their rigged system, and it took a civil war in America to end the 3/5 Compromise which was a start in the right direction and then a decade plus of sustained sctivism for the civil rights movement to see a real impact in voting rights.
The thing with the USA is they are permanently at war, and no war has changed the system. The people benefiting from it are thriving in their political system. What’s gonna happen when this two things can’t change the system? I’m afraid it’s gonna be a Civil conflict.
We’ve been in a cold civil war for years now. It’s just getting hotter and hotter.
I’ve been to marches that were literally planned by children afraid of their futures and boomer men showed up with guns to scare them.
I agree, but these local policies completely opposed to the federal government will bring an armed conflict. If the National Guard decides to back one governor instead of staying loyal to Trump, to name one circumstance, then that may spark a national conflict. This is not the most probable thing to happen, with Black Panthers in the streets already, but it’s a delicate state of things. We have a saying for this that applies to Trump and the USA: it’s like freeing a goat in a glassware shop.
It’s crazy that I’m kinda hoping for a civil war, at this point. I don’t see any way out of this that isn’t an armed conflict.
I didn’t come here until I was a teen and I was deposited into a state that is pretty hostile to everything that I am. My wife came to the US when she was 17 and its been a struggle for her since day 1.
I am so beyond exhausted.
Check out the Election Truth Alliance. Definitely sketchy in some ways so take it with a MASSIVE grain of salt, but it could be on to something.
Nah. This specific thing is all him.
Edit: shit, and Stephen miller, but he’s gone with trump I think.
He would have been legally fired a long time ago if he was alone.
His voters support him and are clueless about his actions and the world. Most republican representatives are just going along with it because he’s so powerful with his cult.
“His voters” being most of the people that cast votes in the presidential election, so yeah, its really not “just him” is it?
He has some kind of magical hold on his cult members. Of course the conservative propaganda machine (Fox, Newsmax, OANN, Twitter, TikTok) are so adeptly tuned to keep them brainwashed, but Trump himself is a once in a generation talent for leading the cult.
Really I’m so impressed at how efficient the propaganda machine keeps the base so angry and so oblivious to reality. It’s completely terrifying, but really really effective.
The magical hold is simply telling them what they want to hear. They are responding to their racist fascist desires being validated.
They don’t support his ideas and actions. They’ve never thought about most of them. They support him and if he switched stances tomorrow they would follow.
Right. They support whatever his ideas are at the time, no matter how absurd or contradictory.
It’s not. He is just the figurehead for their regime.
They know Trump’s on his last legs. Peter Thiel put that fuckhead JD Vance in there for a reason. Things will escalate quickly if/when he becomes president.
I beg to differ. His cult is hard carrying. Republican politicians don’t mind reversing all their opinions at the drop of a hat because opposing his cult has proven to be (until recently) political suicide. The [legal and natural] death of Donald Trump would leave the party in shambles. Susie Wiles and Stephen Miller need a figurehead and there isn’t any that can court maga.
It definitely does continue to some extent. He’s not only the cause but also a symptom of a rotten society. However, he is a once in a generation talent at leading the cult. While Vance is “fully enlightened” (as Yarvin and Thiel have said), he can’t command that same kind of magical hold on the cult.
I fully believe the fascism and shit continues. I’m not sure the Greenland thing does though. It seems like a weird personal obsession.
Natural resources becoming more accessible due to climate change and military positioning. I unfortunately doubt this ends with Trump.
I hope he dies illegally and unnaturally
I don’t care how he dies. Just soon. And ideally very painfully.
Actually that would be secondary. Ideally, he rots in prison for the rest of a long miserable life, where he can see the media and his own followers criticize, make fun of, and torment his little impotent insecurity. He’s never going to prison though, so…
Trump is a symptom, not the cause.
He’s a fetish or a lightning rod, without him there’s a solid chance the movement loses cohesive flow. Its far easier to kick a concussed coyote by itself than a pack of the things.
100% but he does have a magical hold on so many idiots. The conservative machine knows this is a once in a generation occasion so they’re trying to accomplish everything before he’s gone. Once he’s gone, Vance won’t be able to control that rabid base as well.
It’ll still be a nightmare I’m sure, but not as bad.
Hoping the problem just resolves itself and doing nothing will, well, so nothing.
“We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of options!!!”
Whatever you do, do NOT accept a payment to leave. This is YOUR land, YOUR country, YOUR inheritance in this world
Plus, you know, you’re dealing with a professional scammer. I guarantee you that you will never see a dime if you accept and leave
