man, they’re trying really REALLY hard to handwave the nazi tattoo, huh?
so far I’ve seen “it’s just ink”, “he didn’t know what it meant”, “so you’re going to vote for the actual fascist then, got it
”, “we all make mistakes” etc etc etcIf they can elect a womanizing nazi so can we! Be pragmatic! This is the best we can do!
I saw some saying it was just them he wasn’t a mercenary.
Others saying getting nazi tattoos is just what happens in the military.
The bar is so low and the dems can’t get over it
I don’t even live in Maine and I am absolutely sick to my back teeth about this guy
Yes, the new face of the Democratic party is a straight white guy with a Nazi tattoo and a lust for blood and i’m going to be hearing about him until he or I die
Of course they wanna vote for him, a not insignificant portion of this site tore itself apart over this not long ago because some of his stated positions were not total trash (what a bar to clear)
He’s going to win, and in 1-2 years do the least surprising about face ever
My reading is that it is one person (not naming names, but if you know you know), arguing for it, and everyone else pointing out how stupid their logic is, with some people up voting them, but most people up voting everyone else. This is not the website “tearing itself apart.”
The last person that actually divided, and likely still divides the website, is Mamdani. Pushing Platner is literally a single person’s pet project on here.
Maybe I am misremembering, but I seem to recall the threads following his tattoo being revealed to have more than a few people arguing for him or at the least for neutrality around his having said tattoo for a decade and change (I also seem to recall that many of said people have subsequently been deservedly banned).
I also feel compelled to mention, my point was not to demean this instance as a whole; moreso, it was to use this instance as a favorable point of comparison to basically all of lemmy, noting that if people here took the bait then of course the much more reactionary instances would.
I am thinking about recently, at the beginning yeah, several people were pretty credulous about Platner, most of whom are gone now.
Yeah, in the most charitable reading of Platner, all his shit just means he’s a complete idiot. Which would mean he’d be easy to manipulate and subvert.
Or there’s the more likely case, that he has some deeply unpleasant thoughts and convictions lurking beneath.
Fetterman Redux
in 1-2 years
Generous!
i must have missed that i don’t think i heard of him, certainly didn’t remember his name, until the tattoo.
I still remember when a large part of this site was
- arguing for Elizabeth Warren as a better candidate than Bernie (she had all his policies and she was a woman!)
- Unironically pro orb-mommy (dont recall her name)
- Arguing that people should vote for Joe Biden as a harm reduction candidate
I do not remember any of those being the majority position on the website. I remember them being the pet positions of posters (all of whom are long gone from the website now) who wouldn’t stop arguing about it, but a “large segment” is exaggerating the numbers, especially for the Warren claim, since this whole thing is literally a spinoff from r/Chapotraphouse, whose position on Warren was always that she was a clear snake.
This is some extremely revisionist history.
Nooo that’s sexist!!
I remember both orb mom and biden harm reduction strugglesessions. My impression during the time was that orb mom (Marianne?) was less than the majority, but still a good amount of posters, and I felt like a good half of the site was voting for Biden in 2020. But memory is tricky, so Im sure it was much less than that. Still, it wasn’t just one or two posters with a pet project. It was a large amount. I remember being surprised back then.
As for Liz Warren I saw more than one or two posters as well.
I dont know if they’re gone, and neither do you. People make alts, their opinions change and so on.
Seeing as how theres no real way to check up on this, and my memory is as credible as yours I’m going to say you’re the extreme revisionist.Lets not pretend this site wasn’t libbed up (still is im the only leftist, but you are improving). Back then a lot of people were also closer to libs when it came to China
Yeah, at least their current accounts are not around is what I am saying.
People weren’t as onboard with AES, for sure.
However, I remember most people here being extremely jaded with Democratic politics post-Bernie, especially when it came to Warren and her ilk.
As for voting for Biden, I agree, the consensus at the time was that he was obviously better than Trump domestically, and the general argument (as it always is with the Democrats) was if his domestic policies are better, we should vote for him, which appealed to some people at the time, but now, with hindsight, clearly showed to matter little. I didn’t go for the argument at the time, and I remember the long fights on the forum about that shit.
Anyways, it could be anecdotal horseshit, but I still have my old account, so haha, I win. (Kidding, obviously)
That said, I still stand by the fact that the forum is hardly tearing itself apart over this.
I remember people being jaded post-bernie too, but while jaded I still remember people arguing for Biden as a “harm reduction candidate”.
It wasn’t something that was tearing the forums apart, I dont think I said that. I at least didnt mean to. I also dont think it is now. I was just reminiscing. Doubt anything will ever be as bad for the forum as TC69 handling the vegancirclejerk thing or the handling of the_dunk_tank. I still miss PM_me_your_foucaultsI lost my first account when “delete account” went from “delete everything youve posted” to an actual deletion. Rip legaliizeit, gone too soon.
That comment was more in reference to what you were replying to than anything specific that you said, my bad.
Lol I don’t even remember when they made that switch, but that suuuucks.
Also I must have missed the serious Marianne Williamson (I think that is her name, if so I can’t believe I dredged up that one from the depths of memory) discussion, because I always thought it was just a meme from the Chapo podcast, I didn’t think anyone actually took her seriously.
It started as a meme, but I remember there were at least a few that started being serious about her. 2020 was a wasteland
If we don’t elect the Obvious Plant then they’ll just pick another one.Why does that website literally copy reddits CSS lmao
It’s obvious they miss their homeland.
deleted by creator
Incredible
Fending off the authoritarian left by voting for a blackwater concentration camp guard
just one more Hitler, then we can finally do anarchy without those pesky tankies!
that is the 7th deadly fetish, if i recall correctly
Lesser evil than some trans people obsessed with avians of course
these fuckin losers are just a pile of reddit truisms in a trenchcoat
Wait, does someone know if this narrative is coming from somewhere in particular? Someone said this same thing to me somewhere else on the internet when I was arguing against Platner.
They asked me “what should I do instead then?” after gesturing towards vaguely revolutionary-sounding language. I told them they probably need to understand how these problems were solved outside of voting in bourgeois elections in the past, read some history about how groups of people formed revolutions, understand some theory behind revolutions, and then get organized with like-minded individuals.
The response of several people was to accuse me of telling this person to “solo carry a revolution”. Which is the exact opposite of what I said. This person is also telling this exact same lie: “yelling at me to…start a single man revolution”. I’ve never heard this particular thought-terminating cliche before. Where is this coming from?
They cannot fathom that politics cannot be carried out within a single campaign season. If you suggest that they do something else, it is a suggestion that they need to carry out an alternative plan immediately. None of these people realizing that we are begging them to stop putting so much faith in electoralism and actually fucking organize outside the bourgeois system. They plug their ears so they can strawman us into saying we only suggested that they burn down the local walmart.
It’s the very individualistic nature of USians. Another common thing is to emphasize how big USA is. (It’s SO BIG did you know??)
Electoral politics is uniquely adapted to the consumerist thought pattern
There’s famously never been a revolution in a large country
(It’s SO BIG did you know??)
It’s big, but there are far fewer geographical distinctions than you might think. Urban areas across the country are more alike than not and rural places are effectively homogeneous in anywhere with a white supermajority.
There are some local concerns, but for the most part, the entire country is tuned into the same nationally syndicated brainworms. A big part of our job is to elevate and address these local concerns over whatever Fox News and MSNBCNN are crying about today.
i don’t think that’s about geographical distinctions, it’s about the fact that the WHCD assassin had to spend hundreds of dollars to get to his target and most people can’t go to shit if they need three days off work and $700
Oh, I understand the ideology behind it, but this is extremely specific. Responding directly to a call for collective organization and an understanding of collective action with “so you want me to do this all by myself?” is particularly strange. It’s a complete non-sequitur and they all have very similar wordings. I have a feeling this is being repeated from somewhere.
it’s “by myself” because there’s no mass organizing already. if there is no collective then obviously i’m expected to found the vanguard in my area somehow despite lacking any means, ability, or opportunity to do that.
nah that one is real sometimes. if all the 50501 dorks could afford to go to DC they’d get much more done, even if by accident, and you can’t really compare us to more compact countries where meaningful numbers of people can actually gather in one place.
100 people in a thousand cities each is nothing. even if only half of them can make it, 50,000 people in one place is way more valuable.
The Palestine protests, especially early on, had estimates that were putting us at ~150k in attendance. The streets of DC were flooded.
There was a complete loop spanning multiple blocks around the white house.
Every news article listed it as “thousands in attendance”.
Thats if they even reported it lol
yeah that was definitely suppressed in the media.
it’s weird how it’s both a threat so they don’t cover it, but it isn’t a threat so no capitulations are made.
They asked me “what should I do instead then?”
Not obsess over some crayon-eater who’s not even in the same state as you.
I don’t think its coming from anywhere except that they are all deeply steeped in individualism. Individualist reactionaries hear “we need a vanguard party” and think reflexively “great so who is going to start it? Not me.” because the idea of a group of people all willingly working together and sharing a single vision is entirely alien to them. They think only in terms of self service and self interest. They also 100% follow great man theory. So assume you are saying they should be that great man.
Them all saying the same thing is the result of them all suffering from the same mind virus
It is very similar to what a certain streamer frequently yells at the people he calls ultras. “You go start a revolution tomorrow, then.”
“if you want to found a proletarian party tomorrow, I will be right there with you” asshole you are a literal millionaire. If anyone can start a new, proletarian party, it’s you. But you’re all in on the democrats, because you are a liberal whose purpose is to convince people drifting left that they can get what they want through the dead end that is entryism.
I focused on his less diplomatic phrasing because it was more directly similar to what the libs were saying and I wasn’t just bringing him up to relitigate this same topic for the thousandth time, but yeah, his ridiculous attitude on this subject (“create a vanguard party for me”) is bizarre and frustrating.
The truth of it, of course, is that there is no fucking way he would ever join such a party.
Idk who your referring to but PSL exists? Do they know that? I’m guessing there’s some reason it isn’t good enough for them?
Ah yeah actually that was me. I could have worded it better but I wanted to make clear that the revolution has to be violent. I decided to drop the whole conversation when they completely dismissed an article about indigenous people saying “don’t vote” with “but me and my family need this” and then required the dems to implement ranked choice voting before they would do something.
I don’t think you said anything wrong. Even the “begins with you” is after a direction to join an existing organization. Obviously they aren’t speaking in good faith.
Yeah but you know how it is with these types of people that keep waffling on and on, they attach a meaning to certain phrases that are categorised as good or bad and if you trip such a phrase they will disregard everything before and after and only hear what that specific phrase means to them. For them “violent leftist action” is stuff like Mangione (allegedly) and they think that’s bad for the obvious reasons but then don’t go further to examine in what context it would have been good. So if you advocate for violence from a leftist perspective you’re obviously just advocating for adventurism, coupled that with the “starts with you” sealed it. You have to be real precise not to trigger any boobytrap, it was something on my mind while writing it but disregarded it.
Phrases like “Where I’d push back on the liberal/socialist framing specifically” and “But here’s where your argument hits its ceiling for me.” shows they can’t really form a specific argument but still live in inconvienced brunchland where how you say something matters more than what you’re saying.
It’s not a big loss, just gotta keep piling on the contradictions.
they say solo carry because they don’t know of any organization in their area, there may be no orgs in their area, so saying they need to do all that stuff is interpreted as saying they specifically need to found the vanguard themselves from nothing.
Does… does this guy think the only options are “vote for the guy with a Nazi tattoo” or “do some self-destructive adventurism”?
Tends to be a very common thing for USians. You see this in Reddit a lot too, in fact, any place that us focused on US are like this honestly…
do nothing and pretend it’s effective or kill a bunch of random people is a very am*rican choice
Americans don’t want to actually work for something, but we’d gladly die for it.
I’ll die for my country, but I won’t wear a mask.
I’ll go fight a pointless war, but I won’t feed the homeless.
Well, he’s only one man!
And he certainly can’t join an organization or start one because that would mean talking to people face-to-face
Or worse, he might have to work cooperatively with people who don’t agree with him on every single issue but share broad goals!
a whole lot of people have no organization to join and most of us aren’t capable of founding that shit. I’d consider talking to people face-to-face if there was a preponderance of mask-wearers but people won’t even meet me 10% of the way.
Love to just use two words that Marx also used to establish that I “understand Marx’s political theory” while ignoring what Marx actually said about the topic at hand (bourgeois elections) and why.
Vulgarizing Lenin is even worse here. Lenin’s whole thing was to not concede on principle to the tailists who projected all possible wisdom to the spontaneity of the masses. This guy is saying to vote for Platner merely because he might win an election, with no theory about how that helps a revolution or Platners ability to lead a movement; not less, his (in)ability to organize with any broader movement outside of himself
There’s a bit of that around Hexbears as well
At this point the Overton Window in the United States is so far to the right it would make Hitler look like a Bolshevik by comparison.
I’m insulated from all the discourse by distance and not being terminally online so all the emotions this brings out from everyone keeps throwing me for a loop.
Easy for me to say “who cares, just ignore it”
Jfc. Dems really are going all in on Hitler vs Hitler lite
It can’t get much worse than literal genocide, so I’m not surprised anymore.
His supporters are supposedly the anti genocide people.
We are so cooked where all it takes is vague words to get that much diehard support
But but but
vouched for him!Has Bernie even been campaigning or supporting those anti Israel/anti genocide?
He finally called it a genocide september last year. After almost two years. He opened that speech with “Hamas started it”… He is the best showcase that you can just blaze past the suckdems and they will have to catch up, rather than platforming them, debating them, meeting them halfway and hoping that you can then push them further left somehow.
yes but did you consider anything critical of him is just politically motivated???
Most of these people promoting the “secret Nazi” idea also didn’t know what a SS totenkopf was before the story broke. It’s an obscure symbol that looks like a lot of common symbols, not a swastika.
On the topic of bad history schooling, I don’t think my high school required history classes even made it to WW2. I feel like we covered the period from the pilgrims to the Civil War year after year though
Ah yes, my dear lemmitor, your detractors are just as ignorant as you.
Little known symbol that was literally on SS uniforms and depicted in thousands of images easily available online and in no fewer than 100s of war movies. At no point have you been curious enough to Google “Nazi symbols” or “Nazi officier uniform” hmm?
Smol bean imperialist Platner definitely had no idea what it meant when he was proudly doing Nazi shit and getting human skulls tattooed on his body.
Its literally just projection. I’m not even european and we don’t get taught about Nazi Germany in our schools, but even I knew what a fucking totenkopf is jfc
it’s literally in the very famous “are we the baddies” meme
https://wolfenstein.fandom.com/wiki/Wilhelm_Strasse_(MachineGames)
It’s plastered in so many places on baddies but people can’t accept it was real or care enough to find out more.
Or are like these poor souls getting the parody (I think hell divers are parody still) fascist logos in big tattoos
https://old.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1gvbm4a/this_game_has_truly_taken_me_over/
Looks good, I’d be too scared people would think it’s a nazi symbol though
ChrissyLives Viper Commando[S] 518 points 1 year ago
….I didn’t think of that one
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Agree with you but to be fair this is the US we’re talking about. I 100% believe that all of them are just as ignorant. I would bet money you could take 100 random Americans and ask them all “Which country were the Nazi’s from?” and atleast 5 wouldn’t say Germany. They’d be like “Uh…Russia?”
The two party system has been a fucken tragedy for critical thinking.
