- cross-posted to:
- noncredibledefense@sh.itjust.works
- cross-posted to:
- noncredibledefense@sh.itjust.works
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NYT is a Zionist publication and Zionists are literal Nazis, only with some nouns shuffled around in their Nazi ideology.
a publicly traded entity controlled by the Ochs-Sulzberger family, who have held authority since 1896. A.G. Sulzberger is the current chairman of the company and publisher of the newspaper, representing the sixth generation of his family to lead the organization.
Just another multi generational dynasty. Inbreeding may be less popular these days but I’ve met some rich families and they raise horrible human beings.
Israel and their claims to lebensraum in Lebanon is as disgusting as it is heart shattering.
“IsRaEl HAs A RiGhT To DefEND iTSelF” - Absolute Brainlets
See I take the ever so nuanced stance of yes Isreal is entitled to self defense, BUT and stay with me here it’s important, what they are doing isn’t self defense anymore and needs to be stopped
It basically has never been self defense.
The zionists only think they have the right to defend themselves. Palestine, Lebanon, and Iran don’t have the right to defend themselves from the attacks of Israel.
This is called annexation.
What is this, the Sudetenland?
Lebensraum
Im Osten, coincidentally.Geographically challenged, it’s more to the north.
Lebanonsraum
That’s LeBron James’s new religion right?
Fuck Russia, fuck Israel, fuck the United States, fuck China.
Where has China been imperialist in the past 15 years.
Hong Kong
And China was more imperialist than the British Empire?
China’s doing imperialism… in China
Ooo boy you dumb
So you’re saying China treats Hong Kong as an internal colony? I don’t think that’s borne out by the facts but I’m happy to hear your argument.
Okay Mr Garrison
typical liberal monkeybalancing
No more greater evilism here like you do in your elections? eh.
People who use liberal as an insult immediately out themselves as untrustworthy pigs to be shot. Thanks for being so quick about it.
Imagine living life with zero nuance like them, must be hellish
Not always around here lol. Here liberal is used to mean not left enough.
Yeah totally impartial to never accept critism of a state, you’re not drinking the Kool aid at all
You think I care about china or russia, lol
Its just the sheer hypocrisy liberals do, they can never criticise west without doing but but china russia too eee
Ooh, that’s just heading off whataboutism at the pass. That being said I criticize the west all the time without bringing up anyone else so stop strawmaning me
That is how get all the STIs.
State transmitted Imperialism.
At least I’ll be giving them to someone deserving then.
Sharing is caring, as they say
Wth what did China do
It does seem a bit unfair to include them and not India
As an Indian young adult not too invested in politics, may I please learn why and what for?
As an Indian, I’d say kashmir
You know I actually thought about that afterwards.
Imagine asking this with a straight face.
Oh, like kill 50 million + citizens through internal war and poor planning.
Take away individual liberties and develop the most insane surveillance culture in the world.
Commit to a slow burn genocide of Muslims.
Pump out more billionaires than the US for the last two years while massively increasing the income gap.
They did raise hundreds of millions of people out of abject poverty so you have got to give them that. But then immediately take it away when you learn they are the fourth/fifth largest supplier of arms in the world.
kill 50 million
fake number, completely made up
Take away individual liberties
Every western nation does that, not every culture has same idea of democracy and freedom. Stop imposing western liberal views on everyone.
Commit to a slow burn genocide of Muslims.
Even CIA denys that
Pump out more billionaires than the US for the last two years while massively increasing the income gap.
Valid
they are the fourth/fifth largest supplier of arms in the world.
They are second largest economy, so makes sense
Oh look someone who denies the enormous loss of life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine
The CIA doesn’t give a shit about Genocide. This has been detailed by Amnesty International and other human rights groups and researchers since the concentration camps began.
I wont take western sources about china seriously and wikipedia is a fucking joke, regards. Human right groups are built up to sustain capitalist structure and spread liberal propaganda.
Found the human right’s abuser.
Says the one whose entire ideology is built upon exploiting “human rights” of workers, lol.
Aside from all the politic shit. They tried to end my existence via the enforcement of the One Child Policy. I was the 2nd child in my family, they nearly ended me.
Thank god I got lucky and somehow lived.
Not the user you responded to, but I got a vendetta against PRC, it’s personal.
I thought the penalty was a fine?
That’s if they don’t catch you.
My mom told me the first hand account of how women would just get forced abortions.
Like there are lots of women that was pregnant with their 2nd unapproved child, then the government found out and they’d force you go get an abortion.
My mom managed to hide me till like month 8 of the pregnancy, then like someone found out but they turned one eye blind and didn’t report it.
I mean I don’t exactly understand the full story either, its not like mom wrote a diary on it.
Basically it was a combination of many factors that lead to me surviving.
There was an issue of jurisdictions, they mostly left it local governments to enforce, mom was from Taishan and she was working in Guangzhou when she had me, and she was supposed to submit a pregnancy test every 3 months and send results back to their hometown. But mom told me she got another woman to take the pregnancy test for her under her name.
So like, the people working for the Guangzhou government didn’t enforce it as harshly because she wasn’t registered in their Hukou.
Perhaps a god exists and they intervened? idk, not really that religious…
I barely lived, and yes there’s a fine, like somewhere in the ¥20000-¥30000 rmb which was a lot in the 2002s.
Well by that logic millions have been killed by the civilization you yearn for
The west does the same. They don’t call it one child policy but rent.
In your opinion, what would have been the alternative? A bigger population would have made it much more difficult for China to achieve food security.
So by categorically denying my right to existence even though my mom wanted me, its somehow essential to China’s development?
Last I checked, most western countries doesn’t go around snatching women off the streets and performing abortions against their will.
Last I checked, most western countries doesn’t go around snatching women off the streets and performing abortions against their will
Unless they’re Indigenous.
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How about: Government shouldn’t be able to intervene in family planning
It’s one thing to encourage or discourage births, its a whole other thing to force IUDs, force sterillizarions, forced abortions.
Btw, please don’t take my arguments personal. I like to read your comments on lemmy. I am glad that you got through the system.
Government shouldn’t be able to intervene
That’s a strategy but it will inevitably lead to war because the most populous countries will conquer their neighbors to feed their population. So all countries have to promote having children which accelerates the arrival of the conflict.
Taiwan, among other things.
Oh shit did they invade?
Not to my knowledge, but I’m sure they’d like to and don’t recognize Taiwan as separate from China.
Call me crazy, but that doesn’t feel as bad as
- invading Ukraine
- invading Iraq twice, bombing Iran, Libya, Somalia, Yemen, bombing Yugoslavia, arming a genocide in Guatemala, invading Afghanistan, invading Vietnam, bombing Cambodia and Laos, funding a genocide in Indonesia, funding a genocide in East Timor, funding a genocide in Gaza
- invading all your neighbors all the time
Third one is Israel, got lazy.
You got also lazy with Russia. That list should have been as long as the US one
Feel free to extend it, I’ll edit the comment. Ideally in a pithy format with a pure focus on foreign interference like the US one.
Yeah, they just focus on the countries next to them mostly (and even then there’s been sponsored shit stirring in Africa, too)
Well, China didn’t invade anyone in the last decade because they’ve already annexed the territories they wanted. It’s not like Uyghurs and Tibetans stopped getting genocided because their territories are already internationally recognised as part of the PRC.
And they do fund multiple conflicts outside of their own country, like the aforementioned invasion of Ukraine.
Uyghurs and Tibetans stopped getting genocided
Doesnt happen. There were cases of violence but it wasnt genocide.
I definitely think you’re right in that there are degrees to the evil these countries are perpetrating on the innocent.
I feel like the OP was just saying fuck X country who does evil, which is far from the complete list, haha.
If that the case let’s look who vote with evil things in the UN it’s a clear record where countries stand. This will put UK, France, Belgium, Germany, Canada, Australia, India, Argentina at the top of the list.
If it weren’t for double standards we wouldn’t have any standards at all.
“The strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must”
We are back in a period of great power actors. I should brush up on my Thucydides.
We haven’t been out of that period for 200 years. The current set of actors are just more clumsy and less elegant.
The US seems to want to emulate 1800s Britain I guess.
Let’s hope the Luddites are more successful this time.
I think we should reconstitute the Levellers.
Now let’s play the game : does the poster mean both should be legitimate, or both condemned ?
That doesn’t seem to be the message. Instead, it’s that the NYT (along with the rest of mainstream/establishment media) self-censures criticism of Israel, by using more neutral terms.
Hopefully the latter.
Suppose I say “if you’re ok with X then you should be ok with Y, because X and Y are equivalent” and “if you’re not ok with X then you should not be ok with Y because X and Y are equivalent”. Do I mean I’m ok with X or not?
Fug 'em both.
There’s legal invasive annexation?
Edit: Wait. No. I get it now. It’s annexation when there’s a believably responsible reason for it. It’s illegal annexation when there isn’t. Control is just, whatever, including annexations of all sorts.
Whenever it’s the US or Israel doing the crime, it’s legal!
Nobody is saying that.
The New York Times is? Or at least, they word it so one seems a lot more acceptable than the other.
Can you quote then?
It’s in the picture above?
You must never have heard Trump speak. He literally says that.
Nobody is saying that on this webpage. I do not need you to quote trump fabricating the impression of a consensus where there is none. In particular without using, well, quotes.
Right, by “nobody” I thought you were implying that literally nobody was claiming full authority to do whatever they wanted. “Nobody on this webpage” makes much more sense.
I feel like considering the audience and not straw manning improves everyone’s filter bubble and avoids cementing hatred to those outside of it.
And we sure have enough hatred. :)
Are you familiar with allusions? How about implications?
Things don’t have to be said explicitly.
Control is a broader term meaning it could be yours or your neighbors but it is occupied and garrisonsed by your troops. Annexation is formally adding the territory to your nation and increases the Aggressive Expansion penalty.
Yeah, it’s called manifest destiny
Chud rag
Israel is taking control of part of Lebanon, because rockets were being shot at Israel from that part of Lebanon. If Israel had not been attacked from there, Israel would not have invaded. That is ethically and morally quite different from Russia’s unmotivated war of aggression to annex their neighbor.
Preceeded by israeli terror mass attack they boasted about for a long time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Lebanon_electronic_device_attacks
I wonder why Israel has no friends. Maybe because they are an even worse neighbor than russia? And that’s all by design?
Which is itself preseeded by Hezbollah attacking Israel.
Why the fuck do you think Israel doesn’t have a right to attack Hezbollah, when Hezbollah has attacked Israel? Complete madness and amorality by you.
Hezbollah itself was created in response to israel annexing part of lebannon. Why are you so hell bent on defending a genocidal state? Do they have videos of you on jeffrey island?
Link? I think there should be something exceptional to excuse the pager attack. Being a week old account, you should know how to post links [like](that).
I find it funny you default to moral difference or failing for the second time, while talking about a country that casually continues to genocide semites in Gaza well after the ceasefire in a way even the failing austrian artist couldn’t have thought possible.
Israel doesn’t get a free pass to drop apartment buildings because one dude sent a bottle rocket at Israel. Oppressed people tend to fight back when they are being oppressed. Why does Israel have the right to ‘defend’ itself when the people being shot and forced out of their homes do not?
Your mental gymnastics amaze me.
He learned that on jeffrey island
I’m not sure ‘but they hit me first’ is quite the justification for annexation you think it is.
In international law it is. And ethics, actually.
Annexation in international law, is the forcible acquisition and assertion of legal title over one state’s territory by another state, usually following military occupation of the territory. In current international law, it is generally held to be an illegal act.>
Granted, that is from Wikipedia, and I only did a cursory search, but I’d say as a jumping off point it doesn’t really support the idea of annexing being OK. And ethically, the concept of ‘two wrongs don’t make a right’ is arguably at play here, just because someone might have wronged you, doesn’t give you free reign in terms of retaliation.
OK I were imprecise. annexation is not OK. occupation until they stop shooting rockets from Lebanese territory absolutely is OK.
I mean, our entire exchange prior to this has been about annexation, so that’s quite the goalpost shift. But assuming you’re being sincere, what’s the functional difference? Who decides when it’s OK to stop ‘occupying’ and that things can just go back to how they were before? Or does if just continue indefinitely?
But assuming you’re being sincere, what’s the functional difference?
Under international law, Israel has an explicit right to fight back, until Hezbollah promises to stop shooting rockets at Israel. It is completely black and white, international law gives the right to fight back.
Who decides when it’s OK to stop ‘occupying’ and that things can just go back to how they were before?
Hezbollah does. Hezbollah can promise to stop shooting rockets at Israel. Or Lebanon can choose to actually enforce control over Hezbollah.
How would you feel, if your neighboring country was shooting unguided rockets at random at your population centers, I wonder? Would you also feel that it was illegal to invade the neighboring country, to disable the launch sites?
Fighting back and occupying are not the same thing though. And where does self defence become aggression, as arguably Israel are not acting in a purely defensive manner. In terms of international law, there has to be an actual of imminent threat, and a response has to be proportionate, so again the argument could be made that Israel are not acting within that framework.
In terms of your point about Hezbollah promising to stop and that being an end to it, there have previously been ceasefires in place, agreed to by all sides, that immediately fall apart. So how does it work if you are occupying/annexing in self defence, but you are the one to break a ceasefire?
Israel doesn’t get a free pass to bomb, assassinate, and colonize wherever they want. People being oppressed fight back. That’s the very nature of existence.
Hezbollah started it. International law gives Israel a legal right to fight back.
Your nihilism, utter amorality, and utter ignorance frightens me.
oof. one week old account shilling for israel
Hezbollah started it? Not the guys who all wantonly moved into the neighborhood, and then started attacking everyone?
Cmon now. If you decide you’re on Israels side, that’s fine. Don’t try and make it out like the dudes who shoot medics and children for fun are somehow innocent in this.
There you go with your international law bullshit again
Any why were they shooting rockets from there?
Because they are the proxy of Iran, and Iran uses anti-semitism to distract their population.
Seriously, that is it. Why did you think that Israel and Iran are at war? They are 1000km apart. WTF would Israel care about regime change in Iran, if not just to stop Iran attacking Israel?
Ah yes it’s all antisemitism and mean iranians.
You’re definitely a jeffrey islander lmao
Dude at any point, are you going to develop even a meager amount of self-awareness (aim for, say, a field mouse) and understand that Israel are the bad guys?
None of your other points matter.
Israel is the bully and these other countries are just kids stuck in the bully’s orbit. And you’re siding with the bully. Grats on that, by the way.
and understand that Israel are the bad guys?
Your viewpoint is more one-sided than a mobious strip.
Yes, Israel does some bad shit. But so does Hezbollah.
Israel is committing genocide. People being repressed by an imperialist group tend to fight back against those people oppressing them.
If you “both-sides” any harder, Karl Rove will appear at your house and ask you to join the cult lol
Is Israel committing a genocide in Gaza?
Yes.
Is Hezbollah commiting a genocide?
Ok, so forgive my crassness, but to my eye, when you say something like that, your viewpoint seems to be analogous to saying “Nazi Germany was wrong for attacking France, but Poland had it coming”. I disagree with you, obviously, but I’d like to know why, since we both have access to the same historical facts.
There’s more details as to why I disagree with you, but it roughly boils down to: Israel has been committing atrocities since 1948 (and before), it is a colonial project, colonialism is as bad as slavery, Israel invaded Lebanon first in the 80s, killed 3500 Palestinian refugees in two nights there, and kept attacking untill well into the 2000s. In 2024, Israel struck Lebanon first. Is there any part there you disagree with? Because I find it hard to simultaneously believe all that, and that Israel is in the right for invading Lebanon.
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Yeah, I can’t really make heads or tails of what you’re saying there. I’m still trying to figure out why you believe what you do. Did you get a chance to think about what I wrote in the comment you’re responding to?
The US coup’ed Russia and the US coup’ed Iran.
Wow you must be very flexible with all the gymnastics you do.
You must be very limited, since you only reply with personal insults.
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You’re joking right?
You’re joking, right?
Not really. As far as news coverage goes Israel doesn’t plan annexations as in integrating the regions into their state and claiming them as theirs.
Russia explicitly wants to annex crimea.
Classic case of the words have meanings and you are conflating them.
I believe the illegal settlements in the Palestinian West Bank, Gaza, and the Syrian Golan Heights would be evidence to the contrary. There’s also the whole Greater Israel vision that Bibi openly supports.
Woops
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/politics-and-diplomacy/article-890938
From the article:
*Israel should extend its border with Lebanon up to the Litani River deep inside the country’s south, Israel’s finance minister said on Monday as Israeli troops bombed bridges and destroyed homes in the area in an escalating military assault.
The comments by Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich were the most explicit yet by a senior Israeli official on seizing Lebanese territory in a fight Israel says targets Iran-backed Hezbollah militants*
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Zionists have wanted to occupy south Lebanon up to the Litani for decades. The only reason they didn’t in 1948 is because they were preoccupied with the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.
This is a proposal from 1916
Now with the settler takeover of Israeli politics this is becoming a reality.
There is also the Greater Israel Project, based on scripture which Zionists and evangelist fanatics like US ambassador Mick Huckabee are enthusiastic about.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/explainers/what-greater-israel
Your mental gymnastics is next level
The Israelis aren’t even changing their MO and you think there is some translation.
Yes, Israel has never illegally settled territory outside their Western imperialist designated “state” borders. /s
Leave it to feddit.org to defend Israel. db0 wasn’t kidding about the zionist bar problem
I feel like people conflate words when talking about Israel painting them differently from reality.
There are many terrible things done by Israel, but let us not forget that there are even worse countries doing things that are terrible for different reasons.
The treatment of Palestinians is particularly hainous, but remember that there were worse genocides and more effective genocides this century. The bar to be the worst is incredibly terrible.
Against my better judgement, I’ll bite: what other genocide this century was worse and by what metric? Even if we assume there is such a thing, I don’t see how that’s relevant in justifying Israel. It’s like saying that you shouldn’t care about the Bosnian genocide because there are other worse ones on this artificial scale.
Tigray is worst from number of dead, for example. Muslims in China are suffering, but information is difficult.
If you feel like reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21st-century_genocides
There are also cases where the methods were particularly cruel and ones where there are virtually no survivors.
I don’t really see how that’s relevant. In which of these genocides have Western governments been COMPLICIT by supporting the side doing the genocide? Providing the equipment and international support to carry it out?
It’s telling how the West has been very eager to label the Uyghur situation a genocide before any body was even documented (it’s since been quietly downgraded to a cultural genocide), but still has not acknowledged any of its own genocides of recent history or the ongoing one it’s supporting in Gaza. It’s pure political theater that serves the current geopolitical order.
Here is how the West in general treats the horrors it is responsible for (this is just from yesterday):
The west has been complicit in south Sudan by delivering the tools via the Arabs. The war in eastern Congo is fueled by our need for resources.
You hyper focus on one genocide as a beacon of inhumanity while ignoring the very severe suffering of other people and barely caring about them in the name of reducing the genocides. You are not achieving that.
Also the slave trade was further in the past than happing yesterday. Not even figuratively
How the fuck do you think you’re going to reduce genocides on the other side of the world when your fucking governments don’t even acknowledge the one they’re actively complicit in right now, or the ones it has committed in recent history?
Until US/Europe/the other vassals deal with their own imperialist history, nothing is going to change. It’s also ironic that you’re accusing me of ignoring severe suffering, while your first post here was actively defending Israel for invading foreign territory.
Oh, well if it’s not the only genocide it’s fine then!
It is not.
Is Israel committing genocide in Gaza?
Yes?
So why do you defend a genocidal state?
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My impression as a Russian is that annexation of Crimea was silently allowed by the US and the EU politicians. Putin has become a pariah after invading Donbass
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If by “silently allowed “you mean “Trump
Nah, the politicians that let Putin get away with a slap on the wrist for annexing Crimea were pre-Trump. Mainly Angela Merkel, actually. Fuck her.
Trump has of course also enabled Putin since the full scale invasion.
Trump was too busy being so corrupt with his own bullshit that the United States didn’t do its duty as the global protector of democracy
Crimea annexation was before Trump went into politics
I am very much enjoying watching them kicking your asses
I’m just glad that I’m not a piece of shit like you are.
It doesn’t sound like the bar was lifted much
