ID: ally @missmayn posted: “the democrats were more energized and organized against campus protests than the current authoritarian takeover.”
George Carlin said it years ago but it bears repeating:
“But there’s a reason. There’s a reason. There’s a reason for this, there’s a reason education sucks, and it’s the same reason that it will never, ever, ever be fixed. It’s never gonna get any better. Don’t look for it. Be happy with what you got. Because the owners of this country don’t want that. I’m talking about the real owners now, the real owners, the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don’t. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the senate, the congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying, lobbying, to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I’ll tell you what they don’t want: They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. Thats against their interests. Thats right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table to figure out how badly they’re getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you, sooner or later, 'cause they own this fucking place. It’s a big club, and you ain’t in it. You and I are not in the big club. And by the way, it’s the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head in their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table is tilted folks. The game is rigged, and nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-working people – white collar, blue collar, it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on – good honest hard-working people continue – these are people of modest means – continue to elect these rich cocksuckers who don’t give a fuck about them. They don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t care about you at all – at all – at all. And nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. That’s what the owners count on; the fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that’s being jammed up their assholes everyday. Because the owners of this country know the truth: it’s called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.”
Unless America finds a way to get the money out of politics, I don’t think it’s problems will ever get fixed by politicians. The class divide will widen and ultra wealthy will grab more money and power, while those below will be busy with culture war distractions and not focused on the class war.
The french did a pretty good job cleaning up.
There was a lot of turmoil before they stablized on the respectable undomesticated society they have today.
Maybe it could happen again?
I guess it’s up to the American citizens. I wonder how much worse it’ll become before they start really fighting back.
Every society is 3 missed meals from a revolution.
Most of the country already lives paycheck to paycheck. If most people became unemployed and couldn’t find work they’d be homeless in less than a year.
They have plenty of circus, but bread (or eggs) is going to get more expensive.
Idk where the edge is but I think if our incompetent government doesn’t push Americans over the edge soon climate change probably will.
You know Democrat politicians are rich oligarchs too, So it’s in their interests just like the Republicans to protect their money bins. We need to stop worrying about Republicans and Democrats and start worrying about us working people. Free Luigi!
Can’t escape the braindead c/Politics users even in this comments thread bruh.
People out here still blaming voters as if it isn’t the literal textbook definition of a politician to meet consituent demands for their vote.
Not only was the DNC content in allowing Trump to win, they were content in losing just to protect Israel. a
Those textbooks didn’t have one option being a fascist takeover of the country.
What’s so hard to understand that both Biden and the voters are at fault
People also talked more about Will Smith slapping Chris Rock than most of Trump’s recent actions. Welcome to Idiocracy. Hey I think Oww My Balls is on!
It’s cuz college students are easier to kick but Republicans fight back. The Democrats are doing their usual bit of having a few committees to complain while the republic burns and alternatively hand-wringing “I wonder why we lost the election???”
Were you not paying attention? The school admin will step in to help attack the pro-Palestine students. They already have been.
The post claimed the democrats persecuted them more than Trump, I demonstrated the post is false. I never said a single thing about the school admins, nor do I care. Hey, you were just promoting Luigi in another sub and now you’re over here siding with a Tankie Community?
No, the post did not make that claim. Re-read it.
I’m a socialist. But your “tankie” accusation, along with your other empire apologia, has given away that you’re just here to astroturf. Fuck off.
What does boot taste like?
You’re really bad at astroturfing. This is weakest DARVO attempt I’ve seen on here. This a poorly designed bot, or a poorly educated human?
All my stances are genuine, unlike you who changes stances from one community to the next so you can masquerade as a leftists while you promote fascism and violence.
What the fuck are you talking about?
I hadn’t considered this until this post, but where are those protesters now?
Facing felony charges from a democrat.
Who’s the democrat? The person who arrested them, or the state attorney? I believe their state attorney is a Democrat, and that’s where it would normally come from, not a cop. Not sure who ordered it though
The states attourney filed the charges. She is also an adjunct law professor at the U of I as is Rabbi Dovid Tiechtel of Illini Chabad who claimed in the article below that he was heavily involved with descions being made during the protests. He has “Isreal” listed as a hobby on the Chibad website. I wouldn’t be surprised if he applied political pressure on behalf of Isreal. https://www.wcia.com/news/breaking-news/pro-palestinian-protestors-rally-again-at-uiuc/
The U of I chanselor announced his resignation back in November.
So those with ownership of the property or powers to speak in their stead called the police to perform an investigation into a protest on campus and issues statements against them and the investigation was brought to presumably the state attorney we mentioned. I know of no students who were prosecuted by the state for a long term, do you? I know the university’s themselves suspended students and professors, threw people from dorms and treated peope most unfairly.
For the most part the attorney sentenced them to a 4 hour holding and release. Note that is shorter than any holding time I have ever recieved, standardly 8-12 hrs before a bond is set.
All punishments seem to be from the schools not the Legislative/Judicial branch. Thus meaning unless you can show otherwise, this “Democrat” appears to have given the most lenient sentences possible
(Granted that is for most, anyone who got involved in violence I’m sure she referred to the courts, so they could depict what happened)
They were charged with a class 4 criminal felony by the county prosecuter, Julia Reitz. Being arrested and released isn’t a punishment. Illinois has cashless bond. They weren’t arrested at the protest, they were indighted by a grand jury. A conviction means that you are facing a 1-3 year prison sentence and you’ll never be able to vote, own guns, or get many types of jobs and nobody will hire you anyway. They’re trying to fuck up this girls whole life because she said Isreal is bad.
The voting thing is untrue I believe, you can vote with a felony once out of incarceration. Also if sounds like a jury decided that by your words. So it was again not a singular person.
So that person will be eligible to vote whether found guilty or innocent by a jury in the 2026 elections. Owning a gun on the other hand, if found guilty, no, I don’t believe they can in Illinois. I guess we’ll find out what the jury decides. Do you know when the case is happening?
(I agree it is all ridiculous)
An indightment just means that there is probable cause to charge the person, it’s not a descision on whether they are guilty or not. The process is done in secret, so there is no defence for the person being charged. It’s just a way to issue an arrest warrant. They do it that way in order to prevent people from asking for a “show cause” hearing which would allow them to personally defend against the whole thing. D It’s a dirty trick.
Protests have been ongoing. Just off camera, mostly. Some students got suspended from the schools, other schools have been banning groups from organizing over pro-palestinian issues.
I mean, the Israel lobby won.
Just off camera
This is the important part. Corporate propaganda outlets will not report on burgeoning political movements that threaten the status quo, unless they are absolutely forced to, and only then to deride and ridicule them in order to discourage their growth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Revolution_Will_Not_Be_Televised
The revolution will not be right back after a message about a white tornado, white lightning, or white people
You will not have to worry about a dove in your bedroom, the tiger in your tank, or the giant in your toilet bowl
The revolution will not go better with Coke
The revolution will not fight germs that may cause bad breath
The revolution will put you in the driver’s seat
The revolution will not be televised
Will not be televised
Will not be televised
Will not be televised
The revolution will be no re-run, brothers
The revolution will be live
I thought the USA was the Israel lobby 🤔
They are and they won.
The media has no reason to cover the protests anymore
Being deported
They never existed in a meaningful capacity
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Oh you just copy paste this like a bot, okay. You know we should stop pressuring our party leaders to do anything we want because they don’t represent us afterall right?
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I’m so glad to hear from someone that did actual research about this! Would you mind sharing some of the sources that support your claim about protesters only caring about “feeling morally superior”? I can’t find anything about this, but it sounds like you can help. Was there a study?
You should take some of the energy you use for crying
I dont copy paste shit everywhere :p
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I dislike the democratic party as well, but that just flat-out isn’t true. There are focused efforts to stop most of Trump’s exec orders and many other actions (as they relate to him trying to act like he has control of governmental spending, etc.) as many are blatantly illegal or unenforceable and also to stop Musk. Now, senators and house members aren’t doing a ton, but there’s not much they can do - they are a bicameral minority. They actually are threatening a government shutdown, but that hasn’t occurred yet. Most of the resistance is rightly coming from the judicial branch.
So in other words…dems are less energized to fight against Trump than they did against protests.
“If you ignore all the ways dems have been ineffective against Trump, they’re actually really effective against Trump.”
Also, let’s leave this to the judges. They will surely make wise decisions in the favor of the populace.
And what else are we to do? We can’t have the police mop them up like we did with those antisemitic hippies.
Sounds like confusion stems from you believing words and actions to be of equal value. Which is typical for any defense of Democrats.
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No, there are actual legal challenges. As for the government shutdown, that is absolutely just words as I said in my comment.
No, there are actual legal challenges.
Yeah, like I said, you believe words to be actions.
A challenge in court is, objectively, an action. As opposed to “words”. Already some of the executive orders have been blocked. I can give sources if you are actually interested, but you’re not being reasonable.
Farting is also objectively an action. That’s not the kind of action people are calling for.
I understand that you believe this to be some kind of proper action. You don’t have to keep reiterating it.
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These garbage ratio posts that continue to blame the working class for a failing duopoly political system that has been taken hostage by a plutocracy, and has clearly divorced itself from the needs and desires of the governed populace do nothing more than confirm that Lemmy is now rife with bots and state actors.
Everyone who disagrees with me is a bot! My opinion is infallible!
One of the parties platform outlined an escape from plutocracy so yes absolutely 100% the blame is on voters of all class. We should have supported the policies we claim to want, we should have backed the dems.
Everyone wants to talk about the power of the working class until the criticism pops up.
What criticism bro? That they actually stood up for smth they believed in? The reality is that Palestine was suffering, Palestine is suffering and Palestine will suffer. The only way to stop this suffering, is a third party in US who actually cares about human life.
And since that isn’t present, the short term solution was to mitigate damage. Instead, the damage has been accelerated.
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Millions failed, not the handful in positions of leadership who have actual power, and whose job it is to earn enough votes to win elections?
The hallowed Democrat Party leaders, whose positions in the Party are nothing less than the manifestation of Divine Will, are but the infallible vehicles of the word of Our Lord, and their decisions are not to be questioned by lowly plebes who need only know their place and get in line behind them.
What a ghoulish thing to say
Nobody has lost their grandparents or parents, I’m so sure of it.
-You
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Who to you think I voted for?
How do you know the didn’t vote for kamala
This is bait
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What I don’t understand is that there aren’t any protests going on for the current administration. Like he’s calling to literally remove all Palestinians and no one cares now?
there aren’t any protests going on for the current administration
Are you fucking kidding me??
Take your apparatchik strawman back to !politics@lemmy.world 🙄
Let’s also remember that Trump is deporting international students who participated in pro-Palestine protests on US campuses
That’s literally the first article I’ve seen about it and the first time I’ve heard it called 50501.
Maybe things are just moving too fast?
I’m not against it, literally all for it, but I feel like there were larger protests after his first election and concerned about not seeing more.
I feel like there were larger protests after his first election and concerned about not seeing more
It’s been two weeks. People are still reeling and major protests take time to organize.
The 50501 movement alone has organized more protests than there was in the first two weeks of his first infestation. No matter what it “feels like” to you.
I was really just looking for people’s insights/perspectives on things here, cause I feel like it’s important.
But to demonstrate what I mean, the 2017 women’s march happened the day after Trumps first inauguration and had 470,000 people in DC alone, with somewhere between 3-5million participating across the country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Women’s_March
Idk why people are being so toxic to you but another thing to consider is the news cycle has been completely overtaken by Trump since
I think people are just frustrated, I know I am.
You’re certainly right about Tump just owning the news cycle. Whether it’s all been literally taken over, they’re too afraid to fight back, or whatever it’s clear that most news agencies aren’t willing to call a spade a spade (or a nazi salute a nazi salute).
Sounds like you’re not looking very hard for them.
That’s fair.
I guess part of me is worried that I have to look hard.
You do because the mainstream media is complicit.
The corporate interests that are backing this coup are the same ones in control of the social media platforms. They are actively suppressing efforts efforts to organize.
That would at least explain things, it definitely feels more muted than last time. I’m hoping it isn’t just apathy and am looking for more ways to make an impact.
Saw people protesting Gaza just yesterday, not at the 50501 group either.
Wasn’t there supposed to be a big one yesterday across all US state capitals?
The media is in the pocket of the president. Why would they publish that story
Ah yes. Fascists taking over the county? Time to blame their opposition. Help their opposition? Nah, I’d rather blame them.
Lol, what opposition?
You and other poor people dummy
It’s not enough, but I’ve seen more of it from the DNC than I have you.
I’ve seen more of it from [the elected officials delegated to head the country], than [the random poster on the internet].
the bar is in hell.
Y’know, you could just admit that you’re not paying attention. That’s allowed.
Paying attention to what? How the democrats stack up against the political actions of posters?
Nobody was blaming anyone in the post, just making an observation.
But yes the first step in growth is realizing your mistakes and they refuse to do that. Fascism depends entirely on lazy, uninvolved and conflict averse people. Nowhere in the world has fascism ever come to power without the support of “centrists”. The US democratic party is a party of centrists with no goals and no interest in actually doing anything. They have created the perfect breeding ground for a fascist takeover.
I have posted it before and i will post it again, the democratic party is not free of blame. They cant just lean back and blame everything on Trump or Musk or voters.
The Democrats will learn the wrong lesson from this: “We need to convince more Republicans to vote for us!”
They were taught the wrong lesson. The left refuses to vote for them because they don’t perfectly represent them; moderates turn out and can be swung from time to time. What tangible evidence do they have that moving left will gain them more votes than it will cost them?
What tangible evidence do they have that moving left will gain them more votes than it will cost them?
Actual data from Bernie Sanders’ campaign showing that he was vastly more popular overall (and especially in red states) than the centrists.
And Bernie endorsed Harris, and she lost.
And? Do you think an endorsement automatically means everyone who would have voted for Bernie would vote for Harris? Like I said, Bernie’s popularity over other Democratic candidates was most pronounced in red states. Those votes didn’t transfer to Harris, they transfered to Trump, or to no one at all.
Like I said, the wrong lesson was taught.
I’m not directly affected by American politics. But it is interesting to see how it behaves. The Democrats seem to have an identity crisis, they appear to have expected to win because “who would vote for the orange guy?” mentality, but they showed their lack of vision by allowing Biden to run first then switching to Kamala when it didn’t work out. In the meantime Trump was being a salesman/conman with bold proposals that would benefit the people, even if they weren’t true (as it usual with politics).
The Democrats needed, from the start, a somewhat young, centrist and fierce candidate, that could chew Trump during debates, thus turning Republican voters, but the Democrat leadership is sadly lacking and not getting on with the times. I see news about the GOP and Turning point USA quite often, never good but very visible while from the Democrat side there is just silence, just waiting the Republicans to lose.
Curious how that graphic doesn’t say Left and Right on the horizontal scale but rather Liberal and Conservative, whilst the title describes it as showing that the Democrats have moved to the Left which is quite a different thing from Liberal.
It’s almost as if that’s a piece of propaganda meant to deceive readers…
The US democratic party is a party of centrists with no goals
That’s just not true. The democratic party is a coalition group with a great variety of goals that don’t form a coherent ideal. You have AOC who’s a either a social democrat saying she’s a democratic socialist or a democratic socialist who’s hiding her true ideals behind policies that advance her goals but are far easier to sell than what she really wants. Then you have obvious fascists who are clearly there only to enable the wealthy. Aside from them you have the people who believe that the democratic process is sacrosanct and above defiance even in the face of someone obviously attempting to subvert it.
Aside from that, on average the Democrats prefer action against climate change, that the rights of minorities be protected, and are less anti-worker than the GOP. These are real differences that matter. There’s no such thing as “centrism” and pretending otherwise is an amazing way to excuse not supporting the largest institution that will lock your worst enemies out of power, even if they don’t do anything.
Furthermore, even if the DNC literally never got anything done (which, to be clear, they have done good things that support workers like favorable rules for Unions)that would be great for us, because it’d mean their feckless ineffectual leadership would give us plenty of room to build parallel institutions, educate, and bring others around to our ways of thinking. When the GOP is in charge that becomes harder and it’s more dangerous for everyone involved.
Now do Worker Rights, Unions and Economic Equality instead of Liberalism.
The democrats still win but once again, lots of strike breaking and missed opportunities to enact drastic improvements.
And I bet that during all that time and unlike on Liberalism, when it comes to Economic Equality and Work vs Capital they kept moving to the Right almost as fast as the Republicans.
Illustrating the theory that the Democrats have not moved to the Right with a graphic about how they moved on Liberalism is like claiming improving harvests of oranges by showing the numbers for apples.
Those things only are allowed because without them, a worker revolt would have obliterated those favoring under regulated Capitalistism.
“Where’s the both sides people after an election” lookin’ ass.
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As a Canadian, American voters and the left in particular told democrats to eat shit and go away this past election. They allowed this trump takeover and called democrats fascists. Now you want those same democrats to save you? They’re gonna take a 4 year vacation and watch you people reap what you sowed, while they enjoy their money and vacation homes. It’s absurd that the American left has become so toxic, splintered, and frankly easily played by the right.
American voters and the left in particular told democrats to eat shit and go away this past election
Nope. You’ve got it EXACTLY backwards.
The Left implored the Dem leadership to learn from their past mistakes and listen to their base.
In response, the Dem leadership refused to listen and their apparatchiks everywhere, including on Lemmy, called the Left Trump fans, false flag operatives and a ton of other bullshit.
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They replaced him because he got bulldozed on national television and it became apparent the 25th amendment should have been used in 2023. They had polling that Trump would take 400 electoral votes and waited another month to dump everything on Harris with no warning and all the strings.
If requiring the candidate to be a functional person is “people complaining” then you need to seriously re-examine your standards.
They literally replaced their candidate after
too many people complained he was too old.the owner donors sent their representative Nancy PelosiFixed that for you. The left had been complaining about him being out of touch since the 2020 primaries, but the leadership ignored it. It was only when the rich donors and their spokeswoman turned that he listened.
the American people told them to go fuck themselves and then brought this situation on ourselves.
Still got it backwards. Do you think BIDEN would have won? 2024 Biden? Please tell me you’re not THAT delusional.
You will not get perfection
Being taken seriously and listened to at all ≠ perfection.
Adults have to settle sometimes
Newsflash: politicians are paid to attract voters by representing the will of the people. That’s supposed to be what their job is.
Voters are not paid for voting and often face significant difficulties in doing so. On top of that, they’re not being listened to by the people supposed to represent their interests.
Setting aside for a moment that the alternative is literal fascism and thus objectively much worse, do you REALLY think that it’s the voters that deserve the majority of the blame here, not the ones who failed at their job? Really?
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The left had been complaining about him being out of touch since the 2020 primaries
And then he won an election.
Barely. Against a disastrously performing incumbent.
Nah bud. In reality American voters told Dems to go fuck themselves
now an anti-democratic felon rapist is our leader and he’s deconstructing our federal government. Want to keep crying about Biden and Dems?
Since them being absolutely awful at their job is the main reason WHY that happened, yes. I absolutely want to “cry” about their immense incompetence and how your deflection of blame away from them just keeps them from ever having to be any better than “just barely not a fascist”. FUCK that!
a bunch more repetitive and counterfactual nonsense
Fuck this too. I can explain it for you, and I have, but I can’t understand it for you. Have the day you deserve.
Politicians are politicians.
Voters are voters. Most of them are woefully uneducated and so tuned out that they couldn’t tell you how our government works let alone how it’s impacting them or who would run it best. That’s not going to change no matter how much you scream at them. You can’t hold them to a higher standard than politicians whose literal job is to build a coalition and inspire the people to join it. The Dems have failed miserably at that since Obama.
“Internet commenters were mean to us so now we’re gonna do what we can to never hold power again” sure is a strategy, if you’re 8.
It’s pretty much the same “argument” structure as the Far-Right’s “I’ve became a Racist because those other people were calling me a Racist”.
You should stop getting your US news from mainstream outlets. You’re just rattling off propaganda.
I don’t watch any of your trash news at all. I’m just using my logic. You fools got played, how can you say you didn’t when you’re literally standing in shit? American leftists have become so toxic and offensive, which makes sense after all it’s just in the American blood and culture. The rest of the world, we just shake our head at you guys. ALL of you guys now, fuck your whole shit hole country
Focus up during our upcoming elections, because it seems like you fall for social media propaganda easily.
I’ve probably been through more elections that you’ve had years on earth
So you’re in the age bracket most susceptible to online propaganda, got it.
Like I said, focus up, mine elder.
As an American, this is complete horse shit.
Sure, but look where your logic has led you guys to. Maybe try not being so hard headed. The rest of of leftists around the world shake our head at how toxic the American left has become, and how they love to clap back at any criticism with venom.
Not sure what you’re referring to when you say the American left is toxic. We do expect a lot better from our elected officials and people are getting fed up with progressives being hamstrung by the neoliberal elite. Many of us still hold our noses as we vote against fascism but I can’t blame people who’ve given up on the Dems after decades of carrot dangling only to lose all momentum when they’re in power.
