Too late assholes… I’m already deleting most of the posts I made on my discord and I will be migrating elsewhere soon.
Yep. Too late, i fucking deleted that shit without hesitation or regret.
I left as soon as I saw something asking for age verification in the client.
Too late, already uninstalled like a week ago.
Does Discord even have an community relations department, because they suck. Seriously what a stupid decision to just announce age verification and then provide no additional details or context.
This
clarificationpathetic attempt at backpedalling, isn’t much better either, they’ve still provided essentially no information on exactly what the process is going to be, and exactly how it is going to work. I also do not like the fact that they’re basically just giving up on any attempts to implement this themselves, and are going with third party solutions. We all know that “third party solutions” means the lowest bidder, so this will be implemented poorly with no operational security, and absolutely will result in a data breach.I created my account at least 15 years ago so if they require age verification from me they’re idiots.
Decentralize and federate or die.
Piggybacking off this:
XMPP and Deltachat are two excellent decentralized, self-hostable, federated, encrypted communication platforms. Deltachat is limited more to text (though it can send videos or audio files that can be played in the app like snapchat), but with XMPP, we could use the Movim Client.
Movim can do group video calls, screen sharing, differing permissions in groups, and even user blogs! And I believe the devs are working on adding discord-like channels with multiple groups under a single community. It’s currently our best option to shift to, and due to being FLOSS, will only ever improve (we’ll never need to worry about investment capital enshittification), so it’s not just kicking the can down the road, it’s a long-term, almost permanent solution.
If Discord cared about this, they’d use the same identity platforms governments use. For example, in the US, id.me is a requirement for many federal services. While it does deanonymize me and there are privacy concerns expanding this tech beyond government services, I trust id.me to take my data security seriously. It has to have federal security requirements. If their data is breached, there will be repercussions and reparations.
Discord, on the other hand, uses random vendors. There were no repercussions or reparations for the previous leak. Discord said moving forward they’d require SOC2 Type II or ISO 27001 for vendors. Crucially, neither of these certifications matter a fucking iota for personally identifiable information and Discord itself will not be completely them so even if the vendors were PII secure Discord will not hold itself to the same standards. Discord does not care about its users; Discord only cares about the ad revenue this will open up.
Nope I don’t trust them to use a US-based service. Also I don’t think they’re even allowed to as under EU law as all data held on users must be held on EU servers, so that solution wouldn’t be a one size fits all.
I don’t even trust Id.me. If the government needs to securely identify someone they should be setting it up themselves instead of us trusting some random company that used to provide coupons to soldiers.
What, and lose an opportunity to funnel tax money to private interests?
Yeah that’s a totally fair response. Lithuania did it.
I don’t even trust id.me. Why would I give my ID and photo or video to a corporation that is contracting with the Trump administration?
I thought the requirements came from the Biden admin but I’m not able to find evidence of this.
What you’re describing is the prisoner’s dilemma. In theory, none of us should interact with the current admin because if that happened they’d shut down. Of course if we did that, many federal employees and all of the contractors wouldn’t be able to feed their kids in a week or so, so it only works if we can guarantee a universal strike without scabs. But wait, we know people are actively joining ICE, so everyone with half a brain dropping government work doesn’t guarantee those without a brain won’t scab. If we have scabs, then future admin is left with a poisoned well and that existing possibly okay workforce is now on the breadline with an admin that’s not only hostile to breadlines but anyone who fights back. Don’t forget costs are currently skyrocketing for everything and electricity is about to be through the roof everywhere. In other words, many people have the choice of morals or food for their kids. Or healthcare if that resonates more.
Assuming you’re in the US, will you file your taxes this year? Since you’re not willing to give anyone contracting with the Trump admin your personal information, you’ll have to do them by hand. Even a CPA is technically doing work for the IRS who is part of the Trump admin even if he’s suing them. Are you allowing your employer to keep social security and Medicare taxes? If so, I think you might have discovered a reason why a rational person who is just trying to get by might intentionally support the Trump admin. If not, by god, you have stronger morals than I do and good luck with that jail sentence. Unfortunately, some of us have to participate in society even though we want to improve it.
Edit: I want to make it clear that my annoyance with your response is the Trump admin bit. If you had said “why trust a private company with my govt” I would have said yeah digital ID is hard that’s a really good point we needed trusted govt actors not capitalists to handle this stuff. My point about repercussions and reparations is something the Trump admin is ostensibly on board with so it doesn’t really matter what the greedy fucking billionaires do so long as they fuck each other up for breaking their own rules. That’s actually another great counter and something I’ve said elsewhere; the Trump admin is pretty anti consumer so you’d think here they’d fuck the little guy. A breach in this instance costs them face and money so they care a small amount, even more so if it’s cronyism. Either the world is going to end with Trump or there will be a world after Trump and I for one have to plan for a world after Trump where the US is dealing with all the other problems we’ve made.
If they cared about handling of PII they should require ISO 27701
Oh absolutely. More importantly Discord needs to also follow the standard, not just require it of their vendors. Granted this source is the only place I can find they’re requiring that so that might not actually be true. It kinda reads like an AI summary.
Deleting posts is just setting visibility to 0. They still exist, and you should assume they exist forever.
Oh look, so they’re saying they’re already training ai on all the data they have on us? Yeah I feel my privacy being so respected.
Yeah, so, “most users” won’t have to post video selfies or their ID, but you’ll still have to accept active spyware feeding information to an AI model that checks all your activity.
This is still equally as bad.
People need to realize that this isn’t JUST a Discord issue. This is a policy issue AS WELL. Fucking pay attention to the politics around you. And this isn’t just a United States issue as well.
Chat control was one of the most notable signs that this is an issue around the world with it still popping up over and over in the EU. This is a global fight.
this is true… its not just Discord… politics are pushing hard on tech… like Facebook, Google, well everything basically… They want to push age verification everywhere.
Its really dangerous, and I will never comply (even though I have nothing to hide). I already deleted my discord. I will not join back anymore. Its too late already.
Each chat, social network or anything that is trying to implement this -> ACCOUNT DELETED.
Edit: Discord’s preparation to go public with an IPO… So go away from discord now.
What I’m saying isn’t that you should or shouldn’t delete social media accounts. What I’m saying is that eventually they’re all going to HAVE to do it to be able to operate within certain countries. The account deletion/boycott/etc isn’t enough, you have to go after the political leaders that are FORCING companies into these deals cause governments are GOING to continue to go after companies to force the whole of the internet into surveilling users. Policy and laws need to be changed. The work HAS to be done.
I just host my own open source instances. Like matrix for chat. And mbin for the fediverse. This is how I now communicate with you.
No age verification. Mbin will never implement it either. And matrix won’t either. Otherwise I will fork matrix also.
Good for you, honestly. But not the point I’m trying to make at all.
Yea I got your point
You must never comply ESPECIALLY if you have nothing to hide. They are treating innocent people like terrorists and criminals and this is not acceptable.
I pray that the impetus from all this results in overturning all of the (allegedly) anti-terrorist legislation made post 9/11 (post 2000 in some cases).
You must never comply ESPECIALLY if you have nothing to hide.
I agree. I just mentioned it explicitly, since I was afraid of responses like… Ow… Do you hide something?
ahem… politics is NOT pushing on tech…
tech is pushing and telling politics what to do. tech controls politics now
Well… I dunno well… I think both. I believe nobody wants to be responsible and they just point to each other 🤔
This is the way.
I’m just going to repeat myself for the hundredth time here. This is exactly what happens when you define words in such broad terms. Social media does not include things like discord. It doesn’t include Reddit, it doesn’t include Lemmy. But because so many damn people just refer to any site that they can talk with other people on as social media, it became enshrined in law and now literally every service you touch is legally defined as social media.
This is not hyperbole; with the current definitions across numerous countries, Amazon (the place where you buy things, not other services like games) is legally defined as social media.
Words mean things and when words are hijacked for other purposes it allows governments to strip away your rights without you realizing.
I define my dick to be broad. I declared it, and thus have manifested it into reality.
What other things should I will into existence with my new found powers?
So I kinda walked away from this to think about what’s being said a bit and I just kinda have to disagree? Like, being clear and concise and accurate in defining something is hella important… to the people that care about those things. The thing we see though isn’t lacking definitions, especially in a legal sense, but people not pushing back enough whenever bad actors start bringing up terrible arguments. There are people out there that you can bring up the best, most logical points in the world and they will still twist and twist and twist until your original point is lost. We can make the most robust, perfect definitions and some people will STILL either find ways around it or completely ignore what was rationally established. The definition doesn’t matter, the problem is fascists want to monitor the world and make whoever they want disappear and people kinda just let it happen.
And to be clear, I’m trying to say you’re completely wrong. Defining things is important to establish a shared common framework of understanding and policy making and regulations are SO SO SO IMPORTANT cause they save lives in more than just one way, but problem isn’t clear cut to be solved with “we need to define things better.” We have a culture issue. Culture issues need more than one approach to resolve.
Okay, I’m gonna ask: why is reddit not social media?
It’s a forum. Just like all the other forums before it. It just happened to get very popular. To be clearer: if you define Reddit as social media then you are including almost every single website on the planet. It makes the definition completely pointless.
Regulations shouldn’t be defined in this way.
It’s all the same for me. It doesn’t matter, whether it’s discord, games, reddit, lemmy, Mastodon, mbin, X, Facebook. It’s all the same and also at the not the same.
But in the end it’s all software. I hope that we can agree with. And this software is empowering people. And politics don’t like that…
Words don’t have meanings. Meanings have words.
Amazon the internet megastore allows non-employees of Amazon to add content to their store. Both as supposed vendors offering goods for services and as customers giving reviews and ratings to such store listings. And Amazon chooses what listings to show to users through opaque algorithms.
Can you give an example of the sort of regulation a social media site should need to follow which Amazon should be exempt from? Or the sort of rule that should bind reddit and Facebook but not Amazon?
Can you give an example of the sort of regulation a social media site should need to follow which Amazon should be exempt from? Or the sort of rule that should bind reddit and Facebook but not Amazon?
A better question is what sort of legislation should apply to every website on the planet, without exception. Because that’s what the current definition does, makes the law so broad as to be pointless. Why are laws being passed that affect every website, when the problem is a few very massive websites.
A better question is what sort of legislation should apply to every website on the planet, without exception.
Off the top of my head:
- Do not store user information in an unsecure or identifiable mechanism.
- Be transparent as to what parts of the page are ads and which aren’t.
- Follow best-practices for accessibility.
- Give @DomeGuy a lollipop if he asks.
I vote for this guy for president.
I grew up with certain words meaning certain things. Then I get older, and suddenly, those words are gone, new words exist, old words mean new things, medical terms are now no longer medical terms and just purely an insult derived from a definition that didn’t used to define the root word. Pluto isn’t a planet. Instead of 9 planets, there are now an unknown number at least in the thousands. There’s like 4 other Earths.
Language shouldn’t change over time. It can adapt, but I should know that grass is green. Not grass is plubertatude. A word I just made up for the demonstration of absurdity. Nothing wrong with grass being green.
medical terms are now no longer medical terms and just purely an insult
Language drifts over time, that’s normal, always has been. Stay on target soldier. FORMAL language however needs very strict definitions or it just stops working. Words mean things is true. That still doesn’t mean you get to say the “R” word.
This is misleading. Discord is not reversing course. It was in their original announcement that they would try to automatically determine everyone’s age and “most” people won’t need to do any sort of verification. A lot of people and journalists didn’t read that far apparently.
What you mean there clear and comprehensive announcement? Yeah that didn’t happen, this is on them.
They still haven’t really provided any information. They say most users won’t have to verify, how many is “most”.
Yes, they aren’t changing course, but Discord certainly did not say “most” in the announcement and it was a single sentence in a long article about age verification and content gating. They should have been far more upfront about their inference method being the primary one in the first place. This was a communication issue and not a reader issue.
It’s also possible they decided to tune their inference model to be a lot more, let’s say, permissive so that there isn’t a huge backlash of people getting asked to provide ID when they’ve been using the service for nearly a decade or longer.
They didn’t walk back shit, they upped the stakes by saying they use your chats to analyse your age. That’s just as bad.
I think the article title is technically correct. They walked back the fears that users had. You’re right that they haven’t changed their policy, and they’ve exposed themselves as being extra creepy to someone like us, but we aren’t the majority of Discord users.
I imagine the average Discord user, if they were even aware of this change at all, is breathing a sigh of relief right now, until these changes (or changes like them) actually affect those people
They were already doing that.
Every advertising company already monitors you whenever possible to determine things like your age to target ads as effectively as possible. If a isn’t relying on a third party for advertising like Google AdSense, and they’re handling it internally, they definitely know that info.
I assumed they were already doing that, after all the IPO is coming do they will be doing all they can to make money and avoid risk. Admitting it however shows they are desperate.
To think they weren’t already doing that is naive. They hold a lot of liability hosting the amount of data they do, and that’s without the obvious gain they’d have selling data.
If I used discord, they would assume I’m 7 years old.
goes back to sitting on the living room floor, and watching Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles while eating cereal with gummy bears added in
Jokes on you, discord! I’m 42!
They definitely know you’re 42. Kids these days don’t have the attention span for longer, plot-heavy cartoons like TMNT.
That’s why I am deleting my shit and going to delete my account.
So they’re going to scan everything you do with AI to figure out how old you are instead. Not really better.
they have already done this for at least the last year or so easily. I noticed it when I requested by data package last year, theres a clear area on it that infers both your gender and your age in it.
They are just acting like this is a “new system” but in reality its a system that have had for awhile now, just didn’t have any public facing usage of it.
For anyone else that wants to see it themselves, and they have a discord takeout.
its located at the very bottomin the events file in activity/analytics.the end ofthe file shows json objects that indicate what your predicted age and gender is.edit: I found this file isn’t a static location, it is still in the activity/analytics directory in one of your event files, but you need to search “age” or “gender” to find it if it isn’t at the bottom
Not to mention, even if it proves satisfactory to the existing userbase, any new users will start with no history to draw inferences from, wouldn’t that tend to imply that any existing users unaffected are essentially “grandfathered in”, but with the same privacy concerns for everyone else in the long run?
They already do this for advertising. And it is extremely accurate.
“For most users” the whole point here is to gradually get people used to having to show their papers to access the internet. We must accept nothing less than a total reversal here. Give them an inch each day and eventually they’ll have their mile.
Who wants to guess if it unfairly targets minorities and LGBTQ+ users?
