Notice how every single statement about supporting americans protesting will always hedge it multiple times with something like “I support and call for people to peacefully protest” but that’s not present at all in any statements about foreign protests?
No you see, violent protests should only be done by the dirty savages. Not like us civilized Hwite ubermensch because we’re totally above violence
The kind of cognitive dissonance(or sheer racism) it must take for the average lib to cheer on violence in the global south but then assume moral superiority by dissuading violence against literal gestapo agents killing and kidnapping your own…
Zei Squirrel is going on a righteous tear.
rant cw bodyshaming
yes I know the NYT, Guardian, Washington Post, Fox News, the US regime, France, Germany, UK, NATO, CIA, Mossad, the entire collective power of Zionist hegemony is constantly 24/7 agitating to destroy Iran as a nation and people, but I, the fat slob gusano in LA, DC, London, have to make sure that the “tankies” on twitter also agree and join that effort. They have to. I have to tweet about it to go UMMM AS AN IRANIAN I AM AKSHUALLY SHOCKED THAT THESE TANKIES DONT ALSO JUMP IN ON THE REGIME CHANGE PROPAGANDA, UMMM THIS IS SHOCKING OMG THE LEFT IS SO DOOMED OMG. Fat gusano sub-human vermin, whose sole purpose in existing is to launder these very nation-destroying projects by giving it a pseudo-radical sheen.
UMMM WHY ARE THOSE HAMMER AND SICKLE ACCOUNTS NOT JOINING THE NYT, BBC, GUARDIAN, WAPO AND FOX NEWS IN CALLING FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF IRAN, I AS A RADICAL LEFTIST IRANIAN AM REALLY HURT BY THIS BETRAYAL. BTW AGENCY, MUH AGENCY, YOU ARE DENYING MUH AGENCY
they always do this performative cry-bullying and moral browbeating act by pointing to themselves: BUT IM CUBAN, IM VENEZUELAN, IM RUSSIAN, IM IRANIAN, HOW CAN YOU DISAGREE WITH MUH AGENCY AND LIVED EXPERIENCES, YOU HAVE TO AGREE WITH THE CIA-MOSSAD NOW. As Castro said about these gusano vermin: "And the worms [gusanos], the privileged, the parasites and the children of the parasites who want to raise the shameful flag of crime and treason, know that they are not going to face “gentlemen”, they are going to face men
why are you incessantly whining you fucking gusano bitch? You have the entire might of the Israeli-US-NATO empire behind you, countless CIA-Mossad fronts hiding behind names like “Iran human rights”, constantly laundered by the NYT, BBC, Guardian, why the fuck are you still whining you fucking bitch? Oh that “tankie” online also to agree with the psy op? You can’t rest until you get that “tankie” online to also boost it? You fucking sub-human vermin removed.
but why fatphobia tho, ms squirrel. can you at least spoiler itDone
Yeah I’ve told these people “fuck your lived experiences, you ate all the government propaganda over there, and now you eat all the government propaganda over here, and you think yourself wise.”
After I destroy all their arguments, I get left with “whatever, I am a hater, I hate them”. It’s pure emotion and ad-hoc rationalization from the Iranian gusanos who left.
Idk about their children, they’re more based on the Palestinian issue, and quite skeptical of Pahlavi.
The squirrel needs to be NATO-leftist pilled to fully understand the mindset of those “leftists”
Does Iran even have much of a leftist presence? I know the MEK claimed to be communist at one point but I don’t know if there’s an actual dedicated movement there
Trade unions are big in Iran. And independent.
There have been a few cases were they win court cases to take over some company.
MEK is a weird cult with sexism, hard-line religion, and weird sex rules.
The real left movement was the Tudeh party, but they are no longer around. Nowadays if someone says they’re Tudeh, it just means they are socialist/communist.
Unfortunately I’ve heard from pro-Pahlavi diaspora that the Tudeh diaspora are behind them too. But idk how true that is. I think it’s mostly cope.
IIRC MEK operates like a cult
Tudeh was supporting the WLF BS when that all went down.
I seriously doubt they’re monarchists, though.
Yeah I don’t think so, just useless
Every country has a “leftist presence”. Some in Iran are represented under the “reformist” faction of Iranian politics, and others are likely working within individual or smaller ad hoc orgs with limited power and influence.
Either way communists, or even “leftists”, aren’t represented at the rallies of either side. You won’t find allies looking to the newspaper.
medicare for me, bombs for thee
Oof, cant believe I said hell yeah at first, and then I read the next day that there was for sure US involvement. Can’t people just be sick of their governments themselves anymore? Or does everything have to be a capitalist backed coup nowadays?
It never hurts to wait and see.
I will say that, because of US hegemony, it’s not really possible to oppose the US’s enemies without the US meddling in the movement. They’re always seeking out possible collaborators, and they have a lot of money.
It’s interesting that one common criticism of anti-imperialism is that anti-imperialists reflexively go against anything the US says or any groups that oppose the US’s enemies. This is usually called campism. But it’s also clear for anyone who has object permanence that US empire absolutely does reflexively support anyone who aligns with what they seek, and they fund the groups who oppose their enemies. That’s clear in Iran now but it’s not the first example, it’s been the color revolution playbook since the middle of the Cold War. So it’s the prudent thing to do to always look at the opposition of US enemies with extreme suspicion and prejudice.
Removed by mod
I think that’s slightly uncharitable (this is definitely an issue in the west that’s not specific to anarchists - other “leftists” do it too, including some (especially in Europe) Marxists). It’s also a bit mean to the person you’re replying to, who clearly feels bad about this.
i mean burning mosques (for commie) is like whatever (by itself) but there is persistent (rumored for now) pattern of burning fire response vehicles and ambulances, including inside their depots. considering the lack of internet for general population, the only way that part could be coordinated is via external control.
also, rn there is another “anti-semitism” situation in seppoland, cause someone burned down a synagogue (obamdani already condemned), so like pick a lane, demsocs.
also notice interesting absence in the tweet not “the right to peaceful protest” but “the right to protest”, law for thee etc
I didnt even see the mosques at first I just cant shut the fuck up and wait
So real though. i love jumping to conclusions
Let’s remove the negative self talk and keep the improvement, alright dear?
Hmm, I didn’t see the mosques at first. I’m going to temper my reaction next time so that my reactions are more accurate.
Oof, cant believe I said hell yeah at first, and then I read the next day that there was for sure US involvement.
I mean just because there was/will be US involvement in some factions doesn’t mean that there aren’t also anti-imperialist and anti-regime factions including anarchists and communists opposing the regime who need our solidarity right now. E.g.: http://www.anarchistnews.org/content/iranian-anarchists-uprising-genuine-self-organisation-ordinary-people
i think commies and anarchists in iran are mainly depressed about their choices tbh, the government won’t listen to them (cause they are either younger neolibs or religion minded older folks, who don’t understand economics), the protests are obviously hijacked. https://slingerscollective.net/a-legitimate-rage-and-a-real-fear-or-when-what-is-to-be-done-is-the-wrong-question/
if i were a responsible commie (and not willing to go to jail or assist my enemy), i would probably advocate for vast increase on luxury taxes, investigations of people with luxury cars, and reducing import dependence, but what do i know.
I mean at the bottom of the page, they have four “urgent tasks”, one of which is “1- Reclaiming the political horizon of the protests from fascist and pro-capital currents”. So it seems to me like they need our solidarity now more than ever. And in the final urgent task:
Therefore, returning to the moment of the current protests, the most urgent current agenda is striving to connect and organize forces that empathize with the class content of the ongoing protests but, due to the fascist emergence within them, remain indecisive or avoid them; as well as the destitute who have nothing to lose and manifest in their radical protest form and uncompromising militancy against repressive forces, but due to the existing fascist emergence voice slogans contradictory to their class interests. These connection-makings must not be deferred to the day after the protests from an organizational outlook, but placed on the agenda today, with practical provisions provided for them. Practical provisions that both recognize this legitimate class rage and align with it, and embed the real fear of fascism’s ascendancy as an organizational operational agenda within those provisions, and in this sense do not succumb to the street. This, of course, is an agenda whose minutes and subtleties must be discussed within any organization, not in front of the eyes of strangers including security institutions and class enemies.
I.e., it sounds like communists are gonna be on the ground in Iran trying to at least make connections during the protests. So I still think it supports not dismissing the Iran protests outright since that would go against our comrades’ efforts, right?
that is for internal commies to connect and counter-hijack, from the outside (e.g. for us, as we are not in iran as evidenced by internet connection) our sympathy goal is lifting on sanctions, no? and placing them on pisrael. saying solidarity to anti-repressive characters of the protests, which are (as they currently exist) is just incomprehensible, their demands are not on us (aside from sanctions). and you know perfectly well what solidarity for protests is - someone will bomb them or sanction them even more, that’s the only thing the west does.
i sure would like for solidarity to mean something else, but that’s not the political system of the world as it is. as for monetary support, there are better humanitarian (sudan/gaza/lebanon/congo)/political prisoners (britain/usa/germany)/communist (cuba/chiapas) causes to support than assisting iran commies (they very varied, their old commie party gone completely regime pilled in exile for example, and without knowledge on the ground you can either hit or finance local ned front)
you know obvious evidence of communist/anarchist rage in protests is they are burning down rich people shit, it’s like first indicator, second being their relation to american empire. they manage to fail both checks, as a whole, leaving aside my suspicions of them preparing ground for entity attack.
*well i would say, china as usual is fucking up their solidarity, for they have both interest and ability to help, but that’s neither here nor there.
and you know perfectly well what solidarity for protests is - someone will bomb them or sanction them even more, that’s the only thing the west does.
I meant our solidarity, i.e. mutual aid, monetary support, spreading their words, etc., from leftists, not the powers that be. I will never ever support more bombings or sanctions, and anyone who does oughta get 🧱🤯🔫👿 on the spot, doubly so for people such people who label themselves “leftists”, triply so for Westerners.
Like we can absolutely critique the utility of solidarity within leftist thought, especially in absence of other actions, but I’m not quite ready to throw away the baby (solidarity as practiced by anarchists and communists) with the bathwater (solidarity as practiced by nations and liberals).
Otherwise I think I’m with you here.
Just because someone calls themselves communist doesn’t mean they are comrades. It’s fine to just not have an opinion on something instead of assuming so much
Yeah I am still very much forming my opinion on all of this. I just wanted to express that it’s too early for me to say “fuck these protests”.
I think that is fair if you haven’t been paying attention to how protests in nations that are the target of imperialism go, but once you’ve seen enough color revolutions you know it is the regressive force, and if they succeed the outcome will be objectively worse for the people of that nation.
Remember, every color revolution is utilizing the legitimate material issues of a nation to ursurp the sovereignty of the nation. Those material issues are caused by imperialism, in the case of Iran, the conditions are the result of colonialism and sanctions
What could your solidarity manifest as that is different from my prayers?
I dunno, maybe some money given to the right people? Maybe eyeballs on the right people? I don’t have a lot to give to anyone. I can barely “manifest” food on my own plate. What’s your point?
My point is that when there’s a foreign backed psychological warfare operation that’s trying to destabilize a regional power that is responsible for giving lethal aid to the only groups that have been able to resist the genocidal Zionist entity, your responsibility as a westerner is to stay really far away from the factions that are attempting to overthrow that government.
If you have absolute 100% certainty that you’re giving material aid to a group who will use it responsibly and not to further the interests of imperialists (knowingly or unknowingly) then I guess it is better than just hoping for the best.
your responsibility as a westerner is to stay really far away from the factions that are attempting to overthrow that government.
I almost agree with this, but what about when we have communists on the ground who are trying to insert themselves into the protests? Why can’t critical support apply here?
Communists can also make bad calls. There are times where communist insurrection has no potential to do something other than enable a takeover of reactionaries even worse than the current ones, and the business of communists should in those cases probably be more oriented toward whatever course of action represents enduring progress in defeating reactionary factions without getting wiped out themselves. If an even more reactionary and vicious government gets installed, is that really going to help Iranian communism?
These periods of unrest are definitely good for agitating on their part, but that doesn’t mean defending the same people Mossad is promoting, and if some self-styled leftist is telling you that their lived experience is that following Mossad’s agenda is a good idea, you should probably not support them except in the lucky circumstance where the consequences of their actions “merely” result in them becoming refugees (who then might need material support to survive).
The reality is that communists have no support in Iran and the Islamic revolution has a majority of support. Iranian Communists can’t take power from a group that has more support than them. The reason any Communists have taken power is because they were taking it from people who were despised by the masses
I can’t make a judgement call on your behalf as to whether those communists a) are what they claim they are b) will be able to do something with that support. Maybe you’re right and it is possible for these protests’ pro-imperialist stance to be contested; or maybe being more cautious is going to turn out to be the correct call when the dust settles. I genuinely don’t know.
Yall go real hard on religion, despite what it causes. I don’t see the same support for Christianity, which is a bit odd.
It’s something that makes me not want to post here. Religion causes more problems than it fixes.
What do you mean you don’t see the same support for Christianity? Multiple very active users are Christian.
Criticism of religion doesn’t mean being chill with the islamophobia being projected by Israelis and Americans onto disgruntled Iranian proles.
what a mystery, a website with a majority of people from the west where christianity is virtually the state religion and islam is oppressed and muslims targeted for some strange reason are sympathetic towards islam
somebody should put top minds to work to untangle this knot
Also, there are quite a few Christians on this website, there’s a whole comm for them (and one for Jews). /c/islam is locked and hasn’t had a post for 5 years (though of course we do have Muslim users as well).
It’s something that makes me not want to post here.
Love that. Preserve that energy, listen to your inner wisdom :)
don’t see the same support for Christianity
lmao. Imao. lmao. So that’s basically a fascist dog whistle. lmao.
Fuck Christianity.
What is it you want people to do here? Support the right of regime-change agitators in the west to support burning down peoples’ places of worship in Asia (as AOC is doing here)? Do you think most Iranians support the burning of mosques?
What would “support for Christianity” even look like? There’s an active comm for Christians on this website.
as i mentioned in the comment, in a commie vacuum, burning mosques is whatever, same as burning synagogues and churches in new york. now would aocia take that right to protest position in that case? obamdani didn’t, as he condemned antisemitic incident of burning zionist synagogue in america, despite being mayor of new york.
aocia gave license to burn churches as your right to protest, so go hogwild. i’m just extending the logic of what is allowed to be done to enemies of socdems imperialists vs what is allowed at home. it’s silly hypocrisy gotcha, i usually title silly imperialist framework stuff under “according to your own logic”.
