if i were a responsible commie (and not willing to go to jail or assist my enemy), i would probably advocate for vast increase on luxury taxes, investigations of people with luxury cars, and reducing import dependence, but what do i know.
I mean at the bottom of the page, they have four “urgent tasks”, one of which is “1- Reclaiming the political horizon of the protests from fascist and pro-capital currents”. So it seems to me like they need our solidarity now more than ever. And in the final urgent task:
Therefore, returning to the moment of the current protests, the most urgent current agenda is striving to connect and organize forces that empathize with the class content of the ongoing protests but, due to the fascist emergence within them, remain indecisive or avoid them; as well as the destitute who have nothing to lose and manifest in their radical protest form and uncompromising militancy against repressive forces, but due to the existing fascist emergence voice slogans contradictory to their class interests. These connection-makings must not be deferred to the day after the protests from an organizational outlook, but placed on the agenda today, with practical provisions provided for them. Practical provisions that both recognize this legitimate class rage and align with it, andembed the real fear of fascism’s ascendancy as an organizational operational agenda within those provisions, and in this sense do not succumb to the street. This, of course, is an agenda whose minutes and subtleties must be discussed within any organization, not in front of the eyes of strangers including security institutions and class enemies.
I.e., it sounds like communists are gonna be on the ground in Iran trying to at least make connections during the protests. So I still think it supports not dismissing the Iran protests outright since that would go against our comrades’ efforts, right?
Just because someone calls themselves communist doesn’t mean they are comrades. It’s fine to just not have an opinion on something instead of assuming so much
I think that is fair if you haven’t been paying attention to how protests in nations that are the target of imperialism go, but once you’ve seen enough color revolutions you know it is the regressive force, and if they succeed the outcome will be objectively worse for the people of that nation.
Remember, every color revolution is utilizing the legitimate material issues of a nation to ursurp the sovereignty of the nation. Those material issues are caused by imperialism, in the case of Iran, the conditions are the result of colonialism and sanctions
that is for internal commies to connect and counter-hijack, from the outside (e.g. for us, as we are not in iran as evidenced by internet connection) our sympathy goal is lifting on sanctions, no? and placing them on pisrael. saying solidarity to anti-repressive characters of the protests, which are (as they currently exist) is just incomprehensible, their demands are not on us (aside from sanctions). and you know perfectly well what solidarity for protests is - someone will bomb them or sanction them even more, that’s the only thing the west does.
i sure would like for solidarity to mean something else, but that’s not the political system of the world as it is. as for monetary support, there are better humanitarian (sudan/gaza/lebanon/congo)/political prisoners (britain/usa/germany)/communist (cuba/chiapas) causes to support than assisting iran commies (they very varied, their old commie party gone completely regime pilled in exile for example, and without knowledge on the ground you can either hit or finance local ned front)
you know obvious evidence of communist/anarchist rage in protests is they are burning down rich people shit, it’s like first indicator, second being their relation to american empire. they manage to fail both checks, as a whole, leaving aside my suspicions of them preparing ground for entity attack.
*well i would say, china as usual is fucking up their solidarity, for they have both interest and ability to help, but that’s neither here nor there.
and you know perfectly well what solidarity for protests is - someone will bomb them or sanction them even more, that’s the only thing the west does.
I meant our solidarity, i.e. mutual aid, monetary support, spreading their words, etc., from leftists, not the powers that be. I will never ever support more bombings or sanctions, and anyone who does oughta get 🧱🤯🔫👿 on the spot, doubly so for people such people who label themselves “leftists”, triply so for Westerners.
Like we can absolutely critique the utility of solidarity within leftist thought, especially in absence of other actions, but I’m not quite ready to throw away the baby (solidarity as practiced by anarchists and communists) with the bathwater (solidarity as practiced by nations and liberals).
I dunno, maybe some money given to the right people? Maybe eyeballs on the right people? I don’t have a lot to give to anyone. I can barely “manifest” food on my own plate. What’s your point?
My point is that when there’s a foreign backed psychological warfare operation that’s trying to destabilize a regional power that is responsible for giving lethal aid to the only groups that have been able to resist the genocidal Zionist entity, your responsibility as a westerner is to stay really far away from the factions that are attempting to overthrow that government.
If you have absolute 100% certainty that you’re giving material aid to a group who will use it responsibly and not to further the interests of imperialists (knowingly or unknowingly) then I guess it is better than just hoping for the best.
your responsibility as a westerner is to stay really far away from the factions that are attempting to overthrow that government.
I almost agree with this, but what about when we have communists on the ground who are trying to insert themselves into the protests? Why can’t critical support apply here?
Communists can also make bad calls. There are times where communist insurrection has no potential to do something other than enable a takeover of reactionaries even worse than the current ones, and the business of communists should in those cases probably be more oriented toward whatever course of action represents enduring progress in defeating reactionary factions without getting wiped out themselves. If an even more reactionary and vicious government gets installed, is that really going to help Iranian communism?
These periods of unrest are definitely good for agitating on their part, but that doesn’t mean defending the same people Mossad is promoting, and if some self-styled leftist is telling you that their lived experience is that following Mossad’s agenda is a good idea, you should probably not support them except in the lucky circumstance where the consequences of their actions “merely” result in them becoming refugees (who then might need material support to survive).
The reality is that communists have no support in Iran and the Islamic revolution has a majority of support. Iranian Communists can’t take power from a group that has more support than them. The reason any Communists have taken power is because they were taking it from people who were despised by the masses
I can’t make a judgement call on your behalf as to whether those communists a) are what they claim they are b) will be able to do something with that support. Maybe you’re right and it is possible for these protests’ pro-imperialist stance to be contested; or maybe being more cautious is going to turn out to be the correct call when the dust settles. I genuinely don’t know.
I mean just because there was/will be US involvement in some factions doesn’t mean that there aren’t also anti-imperialist and anti-regime factions including anarchists and communists opposing the regime who need our solidarity right now. E.g.: http://www.anarchistnews.org/content/iranian-anarchists-uprising-genuine-self-organisation-ordinary-people
i think commies and anarchists in iran are mainly depressed about their choices tbh, the government won’t listen to them (cause they are either younger neolibs or religion minded older folks, who don’t understand economics), the protests are obviously hijacked. https://slingerscollective.net/a-legitimate-rage-and-a-real-fear-or-when-what-is-to-be-done-is-the-wrong-question/
if i were a responsible commie (and not willing to go to jail or assist my enemy), i would probably advocate for vast increase on luxury taxes, investigations of people with luxury cars, and reducing import dependence, but what do i know.
I mean at the bottom of the page, they have four “urgent tasks”, one of which is “1- Reclaiming the political horizon of the protests from fascist and pro-capital currents”. So it seems to me like they need our solidarity now more than ever. And in the final urgent task:
I.e., it sounds like communists are gonna be on the ground in Iran trying to at least make connections during the protests. So I still think it supports not dismissing the Iran protests outright since that would go against our comrades’ efforts, right?
Just because someone calls themselves communist doesn’t mean they are comrades. It’s fine to just not have an opinion on something instead of assuming so much
Yeah I am still very much forming my opinion on all of this. I just wanted to express that it’s too early for me to say “fuck these protests”.
I think that is fair if you haven’t been paying attention to how protests in nations that are the target of imperialism go, but once you’ve seen enough color revolutions you know it is the regressive force, and if they succeed the outcome will be objectively worse for the people of that nation.
Remember, every color revolution is utilizing the legitimate material issues of a nation to ursurp the sovereignty of the nation. Those material issues are caused by imperialism, in the case of Iran, the conditions are the result of colonialism and sanctions
that is for internal commies to connect and counter-hijack, from the outside (e.g. for us, as we are not in iran as evidenced by internet connection) our sympathy goal is lifting on sanctions, no? and placing them on pisrael. saying solidarity to anti-repressive characters of the protests, which are (as they currently exist) is just incomprehensible, their demands are not on us (aside from sanctions). and you know perfectly well what solidarity for protests is - someone will bomb them or sanction them even more, that’s the only thing the west does.
i sure would like for solidarity to mean something else, but that’s not the political system of the world as it is. as for monetary support, there are better humanitarian (sudan/gaza/lebanon/congo)/political prisoners (britain/usa/germany)/communist (cuba/chiapas) causes to support than assisting iran commies (they very varied, their old commie party gone completely regime pilled in exile for example, and without knowledge on the ground you can either hit or finance local ned front)
you know obvious evidence of communist/anarchist rage in protests is they are burning down rich people shit, it’s like first indicator, second being their relation to american empire. they manage to fail both checks, as a whole, leaving aside my suspicions of them preparing ground for entity attack.
*well i would say, china as usual is fucking up their solidarity, for they have both interest and ability to help, but that’s neither here nor there.
I meant our solidarity, i.e. mutual aid, monetary support, spreading their words, etc., from leftists, not the powers that be. I will never ever support more bombings or sanctions, and anyone who does oughta get 🧱🤯🔫👿 on the spot, doubly so for people such people who label themselves “leftists”, triply so for Westerners.
Like we can absolutely critique the utility of solidarity within leftist thought, especially in absence of other actions, but I’m not quite ready to throw away the baby (solidarity as practiced by anarchists and communists) with the bathwater (solidarity as practiced by nations and liberals).
Otherwise I think I’m with you here.
What could your solidarity manifest as that is different from my prayers?
I dunno, maybe some money given to the right people? Maybe eyeballs on the right people? I don’t have a lot to give to anyone. I can barely “manifest” food on my own plate. What’s your point?
My point is that when there’s a foreign backed psychological warfare operation that’s trying to destabilize a regional power that is responsible for giving lethal aid to the only groups that have been able to resist the genocidal Zionist entity, your responsibility as a westerner is to stay really far away from the factions that are attempting to overthrow that government.
If you have absolute 100% certainty that you’re giving material aid to a group who will use it responsibly and not to further the interests of imperialists (knowingly or unknowingly) then I guess it is better than just hoping for the best.
I almost agree with this, but what about when we have communists on the ground who are trying to insert themselves into the protests? Why can’t critical support apply here?
Communists can also make bad calls. There are times where communist insurrection has no potential to do something other than enable a takeover of reactionaries even worse than the current ones, and the business of communists should in those cases probably be more oriented toward whatever course of action represents enduring progress in defeating reactionary factions without getting wiped out themselves. If an even more reactionary and vicious government gets installed, is that really going to help Iranian communism?
These periods of unrest are definitely good for agitating on their part, but that doesn’t mean defending the same people Mossad is promoting, and if some self-styled leftist is telling you that their lived experience is that following Mossad’s agenda is a good idea, you should probably not support them except in the lucky circumstance where the consequences of their actions “merely” result in them becoming refugees (who then might need material support to survive).
The reality is that communists have no support in Iran and the Islamic revolution has a majority of support. Iranian Communists can’t take power from a group that has more support than them. The reason any Communists have taken power is because they were taking it from people who were despised by the masses
I can’t make a judgement call on your behalf as to whether those communists a) are what they claim they are b) will be able to do something with that support. Maybe you’re right and it is possible for these protests’ pro-imperialist stance to be contested; or maybe being more cautious is going to turn out to be the correct call when the dust settles. I genuinely don’t know.