You must log in or register to comment.
Oh, I can tell this community is gonna be funny as hell to look through if this is the first thing I see.
Sounds like a generic botnet along with TVs, app based home cameras, routers and such.
Anyways, I remember some old story I’ve read, not idea if true or not, but someone was going over .sh files of a past employer and one of them telneted into a coffee machine (that reportedly nobody else knew had telnet) and made it brew coffee in just the right timing for the person to walk there and put a cup in the machine for coffee to start pouring right away. I guess that’s one actually good use for a “smart coffee machine”… Or they could wait. Unless they are paid hourly and the coffee break isn’t included, somehow.
Telnet lacks auth. It needs ssh.
Tell that to the person from the random story who left some random company, and maybe whoever designed the machine
A more legit use case is checking status. Is the coffee ready?
While I really don’t want to compliment Samsung, my “smart” range has a config to disable/enable remote operation. I can see when it’s on, what temp it is, when the oven is up to cooking temperature and when the timer goes off, I get notifications but assuming no holes or bugs it cannot be controlled remotely.
You might ask why they would ever allow “enable” but that’s a different question. They probably feel they have to because the “smart” feature costs way too much money for notifications and statuses.
A more legit use case is checking status. Is the coffee ready?
Isn’t that the story of the first webcam?
Yup.
xcoffee, it is called, as in coffee for X11
assuming no holes or bugs
Well, that’s the problem with IoT devices, isn’t it.
The problem is there are easy and well understood ways to prevent that are easier and cheaper, yet manufacturers decide not to use that.
We have several local-only network protocols for exactly this. For residential use, notably Zigbee, z-wave, or Thread, and all of them have much cheaper radios than WiFi. The key benefit here is local only, no direct internet connection.
The only problem is you need a hub and historically not everyone is ready to set one up. However now that Apple, Amazon,and Google are building them into their devices, tens (hundreds?) of millions of people are already set on that
Was it using the cloud to analyze the genome of the beans?
Considering the website claims it “respects your privacy” but doesn’t give you a choice to opt out of cookies for 1,746 partners, the website hardly seems like a good source
“We value your privacy - give it to us”
“We value your privacy. We sell it to the highest bidder for a lot of moolah”
And it barely contained any information, too.
Regardless if this is true or not I will never buy a “smart” device again. Why does my refrigerator need internet connection to cool my food?!?!
Not defending. But it can be used to send notifications when the door is left open or the temp is too high. Same with *washers when they send you notifications when they’re done or when there is an issue.
The problem is that cooperations are gready bastards, instead of using the tech to do just that, they mine it to get more out of their customers.
Look at cars, a screen is great to show reversing camera and navigation, but the greedy automakers use it to display ads, spy on your habbits, replace physical buttons, … etc
It doesn’t, they want an internet connection so they can track your food usage and then sell your more food, they want your money forever
Ughh okay sure I guess my example was “extreme” But the point stands, there are smart appliances out there that literally lock you out of using them without internet connection.
The issue is actually why it needs to run a entire OS just to brew coffee with 5 or so options over remote?
I just worry we’re not going to have a choice.
It’s a valid worry but I think there will always be companies wanting to make cheaper models. You might have less choice of brand, but probably not no choice.
The fridge app can use the phone’s microphone to find out which compressor frequencies resonate loudly in the room, and avoid them.
When everyone’s phones are away, the fridge can pre-cool and make noise, and then go silent when someone is nearby, according to the motion detector.
Or you could just get an inverter compressor and have a quiet fridge.
My previous LG fridge with an inverter controlled linear compressor was loud. It liked to run the compressor at 60Hz a lot, which fit my concrete apartment badly, so I had loud spots and quieter spots. Sounded like a car was idling outside. The compressor was mounted too rigidly, so the vibration conducted to the frame, making the fridge body work as a loudspeaker diaphragm. The cold air fan was loud too, whooshing. The best feature was soft start from a short stroke, so it sneaked up to full noise over a minute.
My current similar LG likes to run the compressor at a much lower frequency, producing infrasound, below hearing range. The cold air fan is quieter but still bothersome sometimes.
LG is notorious for really shitty compressors that resulted in a class action lawsuit. Not the best example
No just no
The smart part isn’t the problem.
The internet connection is.
Use smart devices on protocols like Z-Wave or Zigbee, which set up their own separate network. And then prevent the controller from ever reaching the internet so none of the devices can access it. Through things like Mac Blacklisting.
You will still be able to access everything while on your local network.
Yeahhh when I buy a fridge I don’t want to have to reconfigure my whole ding dang life just to make sure it works sort of okay and isn’t stealing my data.
Still seems like another moving part that will eventually lead to my food not being cold because something broke.
The title is a bit dishonest, most of the data didn’t leave the local network. According to the article, sending this much data seem to have been a bug instead of intended design.
Okay, but here me out. Maybe coffee makers shouldn’t have a way to generate data.
Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely think having a coffee maker connected to the internet is completely stupid and useless. I made that comment because I hate dishonesty.
Hard disagree. Built a Gaggimate, can download custom shot profiles and upload shot logs for tasting notes.
I admit, I don’t drink coffee at all, but this Gaggimate thing look interesting.
I don’t either, honestly. But my partner is a Cortado fangirl so I’m learning to make it as best I can. Luckily I really like the smell, and I can steam a nice Chain Latte for myself on it.
how nice of you
But then how is it supposed to support RFC 2324?
here != hear
their their, it’s okay.
My coffee maker is a pot and heating element in a plastic shell, as it should be. As it was for 60 years.
“As it should be” is a strong statement. There are many more ways of making coffee.
I feel like you’re purposefully taking that statement out of context to imply that I’m against things like the French press. We’re talking about electric coffee makers, and I’m clearly saying that they should have no internet connection.
How can I take it “out of context”? I replied to a single sentence comment and said comment is right there.
If you’re only against the coffee maker having an internet connection (and I agree on that), maybe you should’ve phrase your comment differently, I guess.
The context is everything before the comment. “Coffee maker”, in this context, pretty clearly means an automatic drip-brew coffee machine.
It would be like if we were talking about basketball, and I said, “my net is made of chain, as it should be”, and you were to reply, “how dare you, nylon is a perfectly fine material for fishing nets.”
The other sentence in my (apparently single sentence) comment, “As it was for 60 years”, should also have maybe been an indicator of what I meant.
My bad, it was a single line comment. Quite a pedantic thing to remark, but ok.
“Coffee maker”, in this context, pretty clearly means an automatic drip-brew coffee machine.
I don’t think anyone is disputing that or confused about it. It’s precisely what my response was about.
It would be like if we were talking about basketball, and I said, “my net is made of chain, as it should be”, and you were to reply, “how dare you, nylon is a perfectly fine material for fishing nets.”
Awful analogy. The brewing method changes the taste of the cup, a lot. A more adequate comparison would be saying that there’s only one way to make pizza. It’s not a minor detail. Even the net thing would be a weird thing to say, though.
Seems like you where the one confused after all. Oh well.
None of them involve the internet.
Yup, on that we can agree.
None of the good ones involve a computer
Define computer. Good espresso machines use a PID controller and some have ways to tweak the pressure curve + other features. There are even DIY projects to make your own. I think the part that bothers you is the data collection and internet connection. That is 100% not necessary.
It’s also based entirely on a tweet with zero follow-up or explanation as to what happened. People have lied on Twitter in the past, shockingly.
Lied? On Twitter? Nooooooo, couldn’t be
Twitter and every other copycat service that severely limits characters is genuinely a magnet for the world’s idiots.
He says in the article how he helps his parents with their network and noticed the coffee machine.
Haha. As a consultant, I worked on a crapton of IoT projects. Not a single one could explain WHY they needed all that data. If you’re just storing user actions, it’s not really useful, or actionable.
I made coffee at 8:03 am on Tuesday, did laundry at 2:39.873 pm on a Saturday, or opened the fridge door at 6pm and closed it at 6:02pm.
So what.
So what?
Well you drink coffee in the morning so it’s probable that you go to the bathroom soon after.
Oh your did laundry on Saturday the weekend? I bet your don’t do laundry during the week because work. Maybe you won’t be home around then…
Opened the fridge door at 6:00 pm and it was open for 2 minutes? I bet the person is hungry. Quick flash their marketing ID with ads for fast food!
Stuff like that is what they use the info for.
If you wear a smart watch that monitors your heartrate. You bet your ass they know when you have sex and when you need more condoms.
Lmaooo. Those goofballs. As though I would ever use condoms…
Ahh a fellow gambling man
Everything you said is true except the last part.
It’s bad for the capitalistic companies to have less consumers. No condoms = more people = more consumers = more data = more $$$
What kind of fucking psychopath leaves the fridge open for 2 minutes?
The more info they have about you, the worse it gets.
And even if the company just uses your right to privacy just to make money through ads. You can be sure they will get hacked by people with even less morals.
They can use all that data to open a bank account on your name and commit tons of tax fraud.
Who do you think they will arrest? That is right, you.
And getting out of that will always cost you tons of time, effort and money. So good luck.
they can sell the data. that’s what.
all those habits will be used to build a profile used to create a custom marketing ads for you.
So… How do we pronounce IoT? Is it I O T or eye-aught?
Jot
I O T
whoever says it different, is definitely a psychopath
Rhyme with coyote.
What about people who are doing other things?
- I’m getting dressed and would like notification when the coffee is ready
- I’m out doing yard work, but want to be notified when the laundry is done so I can feed the next load
While I could do one thing at a time, or use a clock or at a timer, getting the notification makes it stress free
Think of it as equivalent to the dryer buzzer. It used to notify us when the laundry was done so we can start the next load, but apparently we need a more complicated way to do that
You can get all that locally without having everything hoovered to the cloud.
The point is some of the functionality is useful and desirable, even if manufacturers make poor choices in implementation
Until you’re wanted for murder and your fridge habits prove your alibi and you’re exonerated.
Be honest, that would get dismissed.
But if it proved you were are the crime scene however…
Why the fuck does a coffee maker have internet access?
What, you downloading porn with your fucking Keurig?
What the fuck is wrong with people.The Keurig is sending a hardware survey of all the devices it can see on your LAN to Google, continuous location data of their position triangulated from your Wifi to Google too, downloading the updates for an entire ChatGPT model running locally on it that acts as its UI, it’s analyzing the fingerprints on its touchscreen and sending it to an FBI database and 141 different data brokers so they can recreate the finger and get past your biometric security, and it’s streaming 24/7 HD video / audio footage of its surroundings and uploading to the dark web, Welcome to the Game 2-style. It needs to do this.
I rent an apartment, and there is a fridge. Three buttons - temp up, temp down, door alarm. The fridge repeatedly asks for wi-fi access whenever I turn on bluetooth. Fucking hate those times.
I have an old fridge (oldish, maybe 2005-2010 era) and I fear for the day it dies. We were preemptively fridge shopping and holy shit they’re all smart integrated spying machines. For keeping your food cold. Jesus fucking christ.
Antivirus updates - it was Microsoft coffeemaker 🤕
close, keurig, the worst kind of coffee machine
This isn’t an onion article? Is Skynet trying to learn how to make the perfect cup?
So did they allow it to connect to their wifi or did it somehow force itself onto their wifi?
Just curious, because it seems simple to simply not give them access and I’m wondering if I’m missing something.
I don’t know, but guessing they connected it to wifi because the thing asked / said it was part of the set up process.
Most people don’t know about the garbage fire nature of connected devices.
Home grade router counting is notriously inaccurate.
Keurig machines are best left at the shop. They create mountains of waste.
Home grade router counting can’t be that inaccurate. I just counted mine and found one.
I think you misspelled “left at the recycling center”.
Can’t give me one of those things.
Aren’t there reusable inserts?
yes. they still make bad coffee
why is a coffee machine connected to wifi ffs. user error there.
It’s not user error to use a product as designed. Pointlessly designing products to connect to the Internet is corporate error
It’s not user error to use a product as designed.
Buying it in the first place was the error.
I respectfully disagree.
They didn’t have to connect it to wifi.
Like I don’t connect my TV to wifi.
Yeah, but you are aware of what kind of malice is possible when a device is connected to the internet, most people are not. When a normal person sees “connect your coffee machine to our app so you can start making a coffee when you’re still in bed, and it’s ready for you by the time you are in the kitchen” it looks like a pretty nice feature, so they look into the reviews of the product.
Most mainstream review sources will also tout these features as positives, and not even mention being careful about what you connect to the internet, so even the people that normal folks trust to inform them are saying it’s safe, so they buy the machine and download the app.
The app asks for internet permissions to install a firmware update. Every app-connected product ever does this, so they assume it’s a safe thing to do, and they update the machine.
The app, and by extension the coffee machine, now have access to do literally whatever it wants with that internet connection.
Sure, people in this day and age should be aware of what comes with living in a digital world, but if no one is warning them, why would they know?
It should be the responsibility of the company selling the device to disclose what the device will do. Every single piece of data it collects should be mentioned in a manual. Every reason for using the internet should be mentioned. If a company sells a device that collects anything not mentioned in the manual, there should be serious consequences, like the inability to sell products in that country moving forward.
The fact that companies have the ability to have a product do something behind the backs of the consumer is the issue, the issue is not that your average person isn’t tech savvy enough to understand that every company and every reviewer is technically lying by omission, and doing so to take advantage of them.
I’ve bought TVs from Amazon that come auto-connected to my wifi… I guess since Amazon already has that data from my other devices?
guessing it also came linked to your azn account, then, too? that’s marketed as a ‘feature’ for your ‘convenience’.
User purchased the device and user connected it to their WiFi. Just because some corp made it doesn’t mean you have to buy it.
From the article:
For those wondering why this is on my network, this belongs to my parents. I don’t police what they buy. I just help with their network, but this is a learning experience for them
HTCPCP: Am I a joke to you?!
Most of these things are user error
Man discovers his parents’ coffee machine used 1TB of data in 10 days
its also the worst kind, keurig machine, polluting asf.
Yeah, this is what happens when you roll your own coffee protocol.
They should have just stuck to the standards.
10gb downloaded from a coffee machine is absolutely bonkers, surely that would be a story by itself if it werent for the two orders of magnitude greater uploads.
YoU WoUlDnT dOwNlOaD a CoFfEe!?!?
Sounds like they are uploading more coffees than they are downloading. Lawsuit from Big Bean incoming in 5, 4 ,3 …
He needed more beans
But what is it uploading?
I understand the logic behind why a coffee maker can take on orders, although it feels pointless to me - Some might want freshly grounded beans and being able to start that process from bed could safe them a whopping thirty seconds while scrolling the fediverse.
I guess it could upload a notification, out of beans, screw is loose, shit is malfunctioning. But downloads should be magnitudes larger than downloads, yet in incredibly small payloads in all directions
