doin a wellness check on my British comrades
Just spent the weekend doing party work in London sitting in a hot venue with comrades, now back home with my ac (paid £100 over msrp… :( ". Britain’s not built for this, trains were running on limited speed knocking my journey up by 40 minutes, other comrades had trains cancelled and couldn’t make the event, London underground was unbearable…
I am in northern Spain where it was 40 - 43c and while my building did a good job of keeping the heat out, at first, by the fourth day it was unbearable. Good insulation only lasts so long if there isn’t enough cool air coming in.
It was so bad that I almost threw up, I couldn’t sleep, and I couldn’t go outside for more than 15 minutes without getting dizzy.
Not in the UK but in Germany, experiencing the same heat wave: it’s brutal. We had temperatures exceeding 40°C in some places and pushing 40°C basically everywhere else. In my top floor, non-AC’d apartment, we measured 34°C on multiple days and couldn’t cool down below 30°C until well past midnight.
For the lazy yank: 40°C = 104°F, 34°C = 93°F, 30°C = 86°F.
Good news! Once the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation current collapses, it’ll cool the UK and Europe right off (to like -20 during the winter).
Seconding what other Euro comrades said, the worst thing about this heat wave wasn’t the peak temperatures, it was the sheer length of it. My building can normally handle high temps just fine, but the last days were absolutely unbearable and i still have to air the place out because the heat just lingers inside the walls even tho temps have fallen to the low 20s outside.
Stay safe comrades. Dont let the “HAH! You call that hot?” chuds get to you. I’m from tropical northern australia originally and well used to 35c+ 90% humidity and you know what? It fucking sucks. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone who isn’t used to it.
If you have a detachable shower head consider spraying cold water between your legs. It’ll cool you down very fast. Hot water bottles can also be cooled for easier sleeping. If your home has fly screens, spraying water on them can cool the incoming breeze.
It was 39C with 61% humidity at the worst of this week. There is no AC in this country.
I have absolutely not been okay.
I’m still confused as to why there’s no AC in the country when it’s clear that this problem has been going on for a long time and is going to just keep getting worse
It’s expensive and hard to justify for something that lasts 1 week or so once a year. Everyone talks about doing something to be better prepared but then the heatwave ends and all discussion about it disappears because there’s other things to spend that money on.
UK homes are built to the expectation of a mild, damp climate and so have poor insulation and construction requirements compared to places with extremely cold, extremely hot, or extremely variable climates. Furthermore, the government is thoroughly devoted to neoliberalism and has more or less degraded all of its capacity to do anything but support financial capitalism. Climate mitigation engineering is absolutely feasible but not within the bounds of a state that has lost the ability to perform megascale feats like comprehensive grid upgrades and mass scale architectural retrofitting.
Like for instance Canada ran a grant program where the government would just pay for a heat pump or some other home greening measure to reduce energy needs or improve climate resilience. Ran out of money almost instantly because it was so popular, and seeing the huge success of the “give people money to do good things that lessen the ongoing costs of society” program they replaced it with a loan program.
Did the same thing with EV rebates. The rebate programs kept running out of money because so many people wanted to buy EVs, so the solution is to taper off the rebate and end it entirely.
Expensive to install, especially when your house wasn’t built with it in mind in the first place
I’d like to think that for many of us, it’s because we know how wasteful and harmful it is and would prefer to look for alternative solutions/endure some discomfort for a week or two each year.
Once adoption of AC starts, it will start to be used at inappropriate times, and it will lead to local temperature increases - further driving demand.
I appreciate that for some people and homes, it will be necessary to embrace AC sooner; for the rest, it is critical that this is delayed for as long as possible.
Okay the problem is when you know it’s just going to get hotter on average, it’s already almost hot enough to kill people, and the weather changes frequently and increasingly unpredictably
You people shouldn’t be seeing this as “oh it’s the hot week of summer we just need to be stoic and British about it” and instead see it as “there’s going to be increasing instances of Its So Hot Everybody Is Dying and we should Do Something About That”
Which people? No-one is saying do nothing. It’s not a simple choice of buy AC or do nothing.
Immediately resorting to a ‘solution’ that makes things worse in the short and long term is the kind of selfish and low effort thinking that just turns everything to shit.
Okay cool story Im sorry you think “buildings with livable indoor climates” are a selfish boondoggle, i fully expect to read about mass casualty events from the UK and northern france within my lifetime so you do you i guess
It’s not a simple choice of buy AC or do nothing
My perception reading European responses to heat waves for the last decade has been that there’s no coordinated response to do literally anything, other than
“Oh it’s only one or two weeks per year (increasing every year) where the outdoors is literally hell, what could go wrong with doing nothing to address that”
Love the idea of 100F 100% humidity just being “some discomfort” btw, very British
Rooftop solar also does a fair bit to mitigate the damage tbh
But truth be told we are moving into a future where air conditioning is literally lifesaving technology
Yeah and I think the dude i just blocked arguing with me about it truly does not understand how bad shit is going to get, they’re in “it’s a luxury” mentality when it’s a fucking fact that if it just gets hotter and hotter year after year you’re going to have to DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT OR DIE
Dipshit’s all OHHH SO YOU WANT AC FOR 30 MILLION HOUSEHOLDS like no you fuckass moron, but Europe should at the very least be building community heat shelters or something which ARE air conditioned because AT SOME POINT IT WILL BE NECESSARY OR PEOPLE WILL FUCKING DIE
Sorry to lose it on this comment to you i had to block the guy this was intended for
I’m sorry you think putting your comfort and convenience over other people’s lives is an acceptable way to live.
AC is by multiple times the most energy efficient way to heat or cool a space and can reach 400-500% efficiency (because it moves heat around rather than generating it).
What are you comparing it to?
A passively cooled home, architected to prevent heat buildup in the first place (especially considering neighborhood-scale solutions like tree canopy) can take zero watts of electric power to cool. I guess if you take the architecture as given, and look only at options that consume electricity, then yes there isn’t much juice to squeeze on A/C technology. There are still some options like whole-home fans which gently suck the hot air upward.
But if A/C is avoided, then you aren’t inputting extra heat into the system to run the A/C, avoiding the local heat increase. Remember if everyone is pumping heat out of their homes, that heat ends up immediately outside the homes and into the street.
The architecture is a given (in the UK at least), since we’re not building new houses at a rate that matters, and I doubt many councils can afford to make adaptation a priority. But yeah, even if it isn’t as good, some of the principle ideas can be retrofitted onto old UK stock - awnings are easy (and on the older houses may have been there a hundred years ago!), shutters aren’t that hard, air circulation can be planned, theoretically even recolouring roof tiles or adding a solar cope cage would help. They’re certainly worth trying, though landlords can and will tell you to fuck off, and even Planning Permission might butt in if their aesthetic sensibilities are offended.
Portable AC units (plus fans, because the combo is much more efficient) have the bonus of not stepping on toes, though the ones we sell in the UK are stupid and removed the outside-intake hose - which causes a large functional problem (it draws in uncontained warm air, rather defeating the point) unless you DIY a new one on.
…hm, uh, all of which is a long winded way of saying “you’re right, but the UK is damned”.
Yeah people have a lot of outdated notions about AC, I think? We’ve had temps in the 40s and leaving the AC on 28 all day uses very little energy tbh. And for heating it’s not as pleasant as radiators but it’s cheaper than gas — and will likely be much cheaper this coming winter!
In Europe, most buildings are relatively well insulated and use materials with a high thermal mass. So the building itself can soak up a lot of heat during the day and radiate it out during the night. In North America you see a lot cheaper construction out of lumber and drywall instead of brick and cement, and with modest insulation.
In North America, a brief heat wave is immediately noticed and requires a lot of work by the A/C system. In Europe, you can tolerate a heat wave lasting up to a couple days. But weeks on end? Your buildings will heat-soak and at that point it starts to work against you. Your air conditioning will run all day and all night because now the insulation and thermal mass is acting like an oven, keeping the interior warmer than the outside.
Thermodynamics has not changed in recent years. There has not been any change to the fundamentals about A/C generally taking a lot of energy to run. It is just slightly complicated because of the need to factor in the building and neighborhood in which the A/C is operating.
Thermodynamics has not changed in recent years. There has not been any change to the fundamentals about A/C generally taking a lot of energy to run.
You could as early argue that cars couldn’t possibly be more fuel efficient than they used to be because the underlying physics haven’t changed.
The main thing that has changed is the incentives, as customers demand better efficiency and (in EU at least) regulations have got much more exacting. This has incentivized refinements in design such as variable speed, better refrigerants, better mechanical parts etc, meaning that an AC unit you buy today will be significantly more energy efficient than the equivalent unit from ten years ago. It’s just a fact. They demonstrably use less energy for the same cooling.
Heat pumps are a lot closer to theoretical efficiency limits than cars. Most of the gain for cars has to do with aerodynamics and energy storage / regenerative braking. The engine itself, only modest gains. Even the most efficient ICE engines are like 45% or something, or looked another way, 55% effective at producing heat.
Variable speed and 2 stage systems do provide gain. However those are still expensive and complicated. I’m skeptical that someone using A/C for max 2 months per year will break even versus a conventional system. Could be true for common residential buildings, not so much for detached homes.
Regardless of theoretical efficiency, the problem is more “supply side”, how much heat is getting into your building. The most effective way to save energy is to reduce the heat you have to reject in the first place. Reflective roof tiles, low emissivity windows, a dang tree. Each of those could be measured in terms of heat reduction but don’t have an efficiency rating directly comparable to a heat pump because they operate passively. The social-political question is whether to move in a one-way direction toward A/C dependence or if these other options can be used instead in more temperate countries.
Yes, it very effectively moves the heat into the surrounding area, and in more densely populated areas can raise temps by around 4 degrees.
Do you think the people currently installing aircon in the UK will only run it when temps reach extreme/dangerous levels, or will they develop the habit of using it at cooler temperatures - which they previously could have endured with minimal discomfort; or could have handled with more passive measures like insulation, shutters, awnings, tree cover etc. How does that efficiency compare?
I’m not saying that AC isn’t something that some people/households in the UK legitimately require, but for the vast majority this has not been the case, and may not be the case for some years yet.
and may not be the case for some years yet.
The point of everything i’m saying is PREPARE NOW
This “we might not need it for some years” attitude is literally going to get people killed. You’re on a bus careening out of control going “well now we might not need to press the brakes yet”
You go on and on about the wastefulness of AC but I promise you there are going to be points where YOU WILL DIE WITHOUT IT and you’re not going to get that fucking HVAC put in while temps are killing people lmao
Climate change is already killing people, destabilising nations, eradicating wildlife. Why is it that the only solution you can comprehend is for 30 million households to immediately adopt a ‘solution’ which the majority manifestly do not need, and would make all of the aforementioned even worse.
Do you not think those lives are worthy of consideration? Or are you suggesting that we should only think about ourselves and our own comfort and convenience - everyone-else be damned - because it really sounds like that’s what you’re saying.
i love that you keep putting solution in quotations because you really do think a livable environment is a luxury
if only it were a week or two. it’s been 35+ weather for much of july/august for like a decade now. granted, i live further south than UK/germany, but not by that much. i got a minisplit installed about 5 years ago, because i just couldnt sleep in 28C with the sheets all humid.
What all are the things you do to handle the heat?
Keep doors and windows closed, darken the rooms with closed curtains. Fans. Wet towel around neck. Cold water.
If I really want to cool down quickly I run my forearm under the tap.
Thank you
In France they put something called Blanc de Meudon on windows which I’ve heard is good too. Will be trying it next time. It’s basically powdered chalk mixed with water.
Wow, I might try this next time. It washes of in rain though, right? I’ve seen people tape thermal blankets (aluminum on plastic foil) to their Windows.
You can also use yoghurt - exactly the same principle, it’s basically “casein paint”. Hanging blankets on the outside of the window also cuts heat transfer through the window by ~90%.
https://www.instructables.com/Milky-window-makeshift-curtains/
When it’s too humid for a fan to cool me off I have these small wearable ice packs that I strap inside of a collar around my neck, and wearing them in front of a fan gets me through the really hot days. Fan is still necessary since you’ll sweat a ton when wearing one. The ice lasts about 30 minutes, so you’ll need to constantly be swapping packs to recharge, but it’s relatively cheap.
I’m going to experiment with this idea, basically swapping the water for saltwater makes the icepack freezing temp ~18C, it lasts longer, and since it re-freezes without needing a freezer you can do things like make large ice-blankets that actually work (and not those useless gel things that instantly warm up).
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Remember, fellow Americans, everything in Europe is about a thousand miles more north than you think. 37°C in London is like 100°F in northern Maine.
37°C in London is like 100°F in northern Maine.
A better comparison is Seattle, which is farther north than Maine and has a warm western wind like England. The pacific northwest actually had a similar heat dome a couple years ago.
Nah, that’s still way off. London is 51.5 degrees north, which would put it well inside Canada. On the west coast that’s about half way between Seattle and the southern border of Alaska, way up the coast of British Columbia past the northern tip of Vancouver island.
I think that area got some heat dome too
Over 600 confirmed deaths in Canada from that heat wave. 200 confirmed in the US. Likely hundreds more died.
I lived through it, it felt like Phoenix in Portland
there was an interesting thing done during that about how the amount of green space reduced temperature by up to 17°F if I recall correctly
It was about ten degrees warmer at sea level at the peak of that heat dome. It was 37C on the mountaintops, about 1800m above sea level
Have they tried bombing more?
no 🙃👍 personally my family and i were uncomfortable but safe, but if i think about this i start having a break down because christ. christ what else is coming and how do we help people
Today has been cooler than the last week. At one point they were saying we were getting another heat wave next week but apparently that’s not happening anymore.
It’s just frightening at this point. This is clearly not normal yet all the boomers just keep shutting down every global warming conversation with “1976 THO”
Apparently it’s going to be hot as balls in the Midwest this week and my A/C isn’t working. Gg I guess
No its too been way too fuckin hot although todays cooled down a bit, and I’m not British I’m [subjugated Celtic nationality]
There’s been some articles out saying this won’t be the last wave of the summer
In a poetic twist it turns out climate change doesn’t end up destroying the global south but the global north instead
I wonder if we push climate change hard enough we can get Green Sahara?
Damn it’s chilly there, it’s like 100 degrees over there.
