I’m all for being comfortable in your own skin. I get it. Life’s hard enough. But there’s a reason why your sex or gender at birth is important. How your body works genetically and how you feel are two different things. The conditions which led to your genetics may be a larger environmental issue and need to be accounted for.
Don’t give a shit what’s in your pants. I just care if we have a data point that depends on people being born as X and they have condition Y. If you change your gender, you change X and that may fuck with the data.
So pulling an example out of my ass: if you are born male, have a condition for say colon cancer. You change your gender to be female. Your doctor does a colonoscopy and finds the cancer after the gender swap (sorry if not the best term). You’re now a female with colon cancer, but what if it was actually due to some genetic conditions from the male side? Changing it to female fucks with the data.
Do you think that they don’t have your whole medical history? Like if they’re looking for a Y-chromosome associated cancer they’ll just pull up my surgical and prescription history and see “oh yeah that’s related” or they’ll order a karyotyping to ensure they’re correct because XY-AFAB people and XX-AMAB people aren’t *that^ rare of an intersex condition, especially as chimerism is downright common.
However what’s much more common is hormonally associated phenomena that aren’t extremely well known to be such. The most famous example is that after not very long on hormones trans people’s heart attack symptoms change to our hormonal sex’s. For a long time it was so rarely known amongst emergency room professionals that trans people were more likely to die of a heart attack.
But beyond this, that’s medical professionals and it’s a complicated discussion that’s currently happening in both the medical and trans communities by those who are affected most by it and those who are experts on these topics. What was clearly meant by this post was not that, but rather that people should feel 100% certain as to what is between the legs of every acquaintance and stranger they meet and that the government needs to know what each and every individual’s birth sex is.
So the one percent of people who are trans are going to fuck up medical statistics? That’s your pathetic excuse for these comments? The most generous one can possibly be with you here is to say that’s a huge stretch. It’s certainly a weird thing to focus on.
I’m saying they should be accurately recorded so they can be accounted for. If you can’t see how this is a big deal, I can’t help you.
I honestly don’t care what you identify as. Be a fucking apache attack helicopter. I don’t give a shit. I want people to be able data from specific birthd and have them be able to accurately correlate the data. I don’t want the data to be fucked up because someone decided that they are a different gender.
So adjust the data. That’s what science is. It’s always changing as we learn more about ourselves and our universe. Look, I’m really sorry that statistical conclusions drawn from inaccurate data aren’t helpful, but that’s true whether trans people exist or not.
Mhm so your sex at birth doesn’t give a shit about how you feel. It cares about the genetic factors which led to you being born. Would you prefer there to be an additional field which tells everyone what sexual organ you were born with?
I’m just curious, has any strangers’ genitalia impacted you in any way that actually matters? And no sports don’t count no one gives a shit about the .1% of athletes who are trans and how much of an AdVaNtAgE they have.
From where I’m sitting, people just need to shut the hell up about other people’s lives. They impact you in no way. Yet you impact their lives, taking their rights away and driving them to suicide. These types of comments literally contribute to suicide. Your comment could be the last straw for someone reading it, and they could choose to end their life because of you. And you sleep at night fine I’m sure. You should care about what that says about you.
Other people have hard lives and you don’t need to make them harder. Deal with your own shit. Let others do their best to deal with theirs.
People do give a shit about sports, because that’s what’s always in the news.
I don’t care what you do privately. If you want to engage in some competition though, there’s rules and regulations and it’s important that everyone is on an even playing field. That’s the whole point about the different divisions.
My comment about having different divisions because you genetically decided to modify yourself may cause someone to end their life? I don’t think so champ.
I fight people and have opinions! Main thing right now being HEMA, mostly blunted axe + shield sparring. It’s mixed-gender and my experience is that men and women are pretty competitive with each other. I’ve also fenced competitively, which has male and female divisions but men and women practice against each other all the time. Across both sports, height is far, far more important than sex. Like if you’re 5’10", you inherently have an advantage in reaching your 5’6" opponent, whether they’re male or female. People focus on sex like it’s sufficient to equalize genetic advantages and “level the playing field” but think of the difference between the shortest man you know and the tallest man you know. Would you honestly say they’re on an even playing field in every sport because of their sex classification?
It really depends a lot on the sport, hormones and time do a lot more than you’d think, and male/female divisions aren’t a level playing field to begin with in many sports. Also sure, there is a reasonable discussion to have at a professional level, but in most sports at anything less than the most elite level it’s such a non issue. Anyone pushing to police it in kids’ sports via genital inspection has lost their minds.
I don’t care the actual values. In fact, I want people to be happy so whatever you need to do to achieve that go ahead and do it.
I apologize if the following sentences aren’t exactly PC, don’t mean any harm by them.
I care about the values for other reasons. Say someone was born male, undergoes HRT and becomes female. Due to their birth genetics, they are more likely to get X disease. They have no health issues, undergo HRT or whatever, and then the disease is found. So now they are a female with X disease.
That data is very different. That’s all I care about.
I don’t think keeping lists of trans people is particularly good social awareness for stupidly obvious reasons: There’s a lot of people who would see such a list as a list of targets.
Realistically, most medical staff will be aware of commonalities. For instance in your example the specialist that treats "X’ disease will notice fairly quickly if a majority of their patients are trans especially since maybe up to 2% of the population is trans.
You’re totally right. But the meme is probably referencing the fact that Republicans seem to care a lot about sex and gender when it comes to kids sports, or sports in general.
That comes off worse considering Republican states are banning transgender treatment, or allowing conversion therapy. Seems like they really don’t like the LGBT community and try to hide it behind “health” related or “sports equality” related reasons.
Ok? Great? The post is missing the fact that whatever genitals you’re born with at birth is actually an important fact.
As you grow up, if you feel you are X instead of Y, great Good for you. That doesn’t change the environmental conditions that led to your birth.
Also with sports, the issue is with the league “names”. Create an “open” division where anyone can compete. Then create a division that’s biological females only. You think there’s no genetic advantage to someone who was a male for 30 years and then changed their gender (sorry if this isn’t worded the best). The issue here is creating a fair playing field for everyone.
It’s clear that Joe is just a transphobe hiding behind “Oooo technically important oooo” ignoring the fact that the fascists want to check children’s genitals not for any of those “important” reasons
Are you crazy? There are many factors which led to that data point. How you feel about it later in life is a different story. You don’t choose to be a certain gender. It’s genetically chosen for you, and there are other issues which are dependent on that data point.
You may feel that you are a man or a woman during your life, and that may not confirm to your gender. That’s ok! But there may be certain diseases that are more prevalent in a woman. If you were born a woman and change your gender later in life, how does it affect that disorder,m
If they were talking about that set it would be useful to specify that set. But of course that would mean using icky terms like “cis” instead of denying the humanity and even biological existence of trans people. Can’t be having that, now.
The women’s sports that they care so highly about at this time for some reason. Next they’ll probably talk about some hypothetical niece that plays sports and “whatever will she do” in sports with the trans
If there’s no genetic advantage for men, why did Chess have separate divisions?
The ACTUAL answer is misogyny. Chess was(and still is tbh) a very misogynistic “sport” back in the day, and many male professional chess players refused to play against women, and the ones that did play against them were often crude. To try and get more women interested in chess, women only divisions were created. It has literally nothing to do with genetic advantages.
I can’t speak for chess, but in gaming where there’s similarly no sex advantage, female gamers are rarely seen at the higher levels because the environment is very hostile towards them. Creating a separate women’s league would alleviate this to some degree and encourage more women to actually try to reach for the top.
You are missing the fact that this issue is so unimportant and that even talking about it when everything else is on fire is… well… kind of moronic tbh.
So I get there’s important social issues around gender. But at the same time people are so caught up in how they feel that they miss out on the important fact that your gender at birth means more than what you want your gender to be. There may be environmental issues which are dependent on your gender at birth.
There may be environmental issues which are dependent on your gender at birth.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by this and why it’s important? I don’t understand how your gender at birth affects the environment in any way that matters.
So there may be specific issues that are related to genetics. I don’t really work in that field, but let’s say that in a certain area, males more likely to have X disease and it shows after 30. So like colon cancer or something.
If they go and change their gender to female, how does it
affect those stats? Are they suddenly less likely to experience those issues?
I honestly don’t give a shit about how you identify. I want you to be comfortable.
I still don’t see how that’s relevant to the environment. I’m guessing you just misspoke there.
Good science will consider your assigned sex at birth for these stats where relevant. No one is disputing the value of having that information and no one has problems with it because this data is all anonymized. The problem that the OP is referring to is when this data is collected without anonymization and used to bring harm to specific people based on their medical records. There’s no reason for anyone besides your doctor to have access to your medical records. Scientific studies require explicit consent to get that data.
“means more” isn’t a factual statement, it’s a value judgement and some people value being the best version of themselves more than they value leading a miserable existence because of their genetics. Environmental issues are also just that: results of the environment rather than innate expression of X or Y chromosomes. The point the OP post is making is that instead of focusing on economic policies, global warming, and wars, politicians are more focused on who decides they’d be happier as a man/woman/non binary person. It’s a complete waste of time for everyone BUT doctors and researchers since we shouldn’t be judging or limiting what people can do based on what genitals they were born with, and instead be focusing on how to fix massive, glaring, and disastrous issues such as the ones described in the post.
How the fuck does that make it any business of anyone other than your motherfucking doctor, and even then, significantly less often than you’ve convinced yourself of? (seriously - if your GP keeps asking you about your genitals every time you go in to see them, you should report them and find a new one, E: never mind them even knowing your chromosomic or genetic or even hormonal make up)
You’re just a wilfully ignorant transphobe trying to pretend they aren’t one.
But you are.
And if that bothers you - you can just stop being one! I guarantee its easier than being a miserable hateful little bigot, no need for all that mental gymnastics, for starters…
I don’t care about your gender at birth. Really don’t. I do think that your gender at birth has significance. If you were born a male with certain genetic factors, and you change your gender to female later in life, it is very important to know that you were born male with factors X Y Z and not female. It’s not a tough concept.
If you were born a male with certain genetic factors, and you change your gender to female later in life, it is very important to know that you were born male with factors X Y Z and not female. It’s not a tough concept.
No, it isn’t a tough concept, you’re just a bigot. ¯\(ツ)/¯
I noticed that I edited my reply just as you posted this, so I’ll add this here because you made the exact leap I knew you would - does your doctor know your chromosomes? DNA? Have you ever even had your hormones tested? The answer is almost certainly “no”, because most people don’t, because those things are hardly ever relevant, and if they are, it isn’t because someone is trans (E: in most cases, anyway).
No matter how many ridiculous leaps you make, and how many times you swear you don’t care about gender at birth or whatever:
You
Are
A
Transphobe
No one gets tested for it because it’s very rare for it to not match up with your assigned sex at birth. Why spend hundreds of dollars on a test when you can just ask someone and get things right over 90% of the time? In recent years, doctors have always asked for both gender identity and assigned sex at birth, presumably because both are medically relevant.
But the OP is clearly not about medical data for healthcare purposes.
Just like with anything else in life, you don’t know with 100% certainty, nor do you need to. But you can generally assume that if you see the same pattern over and over, that it will probably hold in future cases. When it comes to the relationship between your DNA and assigned sex at birth, that was tested in a small number of humans (work of Theophilus Painter) and the trend was found to hold. From that point on, we’ve discovered problems that are linked to one chromosome or the other which also exclusively/disproportionately affect people of one sex or the other. Evidence of this sort show that the model continues to hold up in all cases and so we continue to use it.
I get the impression I’m being mistaken for someone else in this thread.
If you’re asking about Joemo’s position, my understanding is that they think researchers are incapable of asking people for their assigned sex at birth and this will this draw incorrect conclusions from the data.
I’m not a transphobe lol. I don’t give a shit about it. I want you to be happy as a person, and you do you.
I don’t want incorrect conclusions being drawn from a shitty dataset due to people changing their gender at birth. You were born with a certain sex. You can’t change that, no matter how hard you try. That information is also valuable, there may be trends that affect a specific sex more. If you change your gender, you could pollute that dataset and lead to incorrect conclusions drawn.
Not everyone hates transpeople. Just because someone has a different opinion than you doesn’t mean they hate transpeople. Take a second to get off your high horse and actually think about the concepts I have commented about.
This comment feels like it’s from 2017 or something. If you’ve spent any amount of time on social media in the last few years, you know damn well how this comment would be responded to.
If trans athletes are causing a serious, quantifiable distribution in competitive sports, to the point you can direct me to multiple bodies of evidence that clearly show a trend of cis athletes being overshadowed, then, and only then will I agree there is a problem.
But there isn’t.
There was is reason to impose restrictions on trans athletes before there is any quantifiable evidence that their inclusion is a problem.
And the same goes for trans people in gendered bathrooms or any of the other shit people come up with as hypothetical problems.
Show me the trends. Show me where it’s a quantifiable problem first, then we’ll talk.
You need to protect the idea that people competing in a specific league don’t have any advantages.
Imagine if LeBron changed his gender and began competing in the WNBA. Do you think he’d magically suck, or would he dominate? This doesn’t magically change the 38 years of training that he has done as a male. It’s not a hard concept. When thinking about these things, you need to think about these edge cases because that is what is going to get abused.
strawman argument 101: what if EXTREME EXAMPLE happened? this should dictate how we treat all levels of competition because (???)
you act as if being trans is a choice made at a whim, and can be easily made to take advantage of a situation. obviously if some major athlete came out there would be more than just “oh she competes in the womens league now”, but we dont have to talk about that because that is such a worthless strawman argument
You need to consider edge cases when making the rules. You can’t just ignore them and hope that people don’t abuse them.
I’m not acting like being trans is a choice. I want competitions to be in as level of a playing field as possible. Competing in sports is a choice though.
The edge case is called that for a reason, dictating every level of competition based on edge cases is how you push a narritive
Let olympic athletes and organizers sort out how they want to handle the .01% of athletes that are trans, basically every other level of competition it doesnt fuckin matter. The only reason its brought up 99% of the time is to push a transphobic narritive and i am so fucking sick of it
the issue is bringing bigoted government legislation into what should be exclusively top level competition. you and i both know that ted cruz (example) isnt gonna be playing touchy when it comes to taking away our rights
if its just the top level people deciding what an advantage is, in just high level sport, then fair. but letting that seep down to collage, high school, and below is a path to genetal inspections on teens and children
But there’s a reason why your sex or gender at birth is important.
Sure, ok.
The point of this meme is: is it really more important than all of those issues listed? Is having a slightly skewed dataset (which will not happen because people that ACTUALLY need to, know that) more important than healthcare itself being a complete disaster?
They’re not related. The point of the meme is that, even among those extremely important issues that permeate the entire society, the thing republicans choose to focus their efforts on is this boogeyman fight against trans people.
Why is that the most important thing on their minds when a ridiculous amount of people are in crippling debt just because of health reasons and the whole planet is slowly turning into a frying pan?
There are genetic and environmental factors that actually influence your development. These affect how you are born and are important.
If you feel differently in the future, great. But these data points need to be recorded accurately. You were born as X. This is important. If you feel differently, and want to change it in the future, that’s fine. That doesn’t change the data point for when you were born.
You’re so caught up in your issue that you don’t realize the larger issue at hand.
But there’s a reason why your sex or gender at birth is important. How your body works genetically and how you feel are two different things. The conditions which led to your genetics may be a larger environmental issue and need to be accounted for.
Incredible how often when a transphobe is asked to explain these ‘important reasons’ it literally relates to games. I’m taking about grown adults, so deeply concerned about games with balls that checking whether children who play have balls is now a fixation.
I’m all for being comfortable in your own skin. I get it. Life’s hard enough. But there’s a reason why your sex or gender at birth is important. How your body works genetically and how you feel are two different things. The conditions which led to your genetics may be a larger environmental issue and need to be accounted for.
Who asked for your trash opinion?
Trash opinion?
Do you think that knowing a person’s gender at birth is not important? Come on man.
It’s unimportant for literally everyone but them until puberty
And from that point on its their and their doctors problem
That data still has meaning.
How you feel about your gender, and your gender at birth are two very different data points.
Hey, I’ve got a novel idea. Stay out of other people’s pants. Ez PZ.
Don’t give a shit what’s in your pants. I just care if we have a data point that depends on people being born as X and they have condition Y. If you change your gender, you change X and that may fuck with the data.
So pulling an example out of my ass: if you are born male, have a condition for say colon cancer. You change your gender to be female. Your doctor does a colonoscopy and finds the cancer after the gender swap (sorry if not the best term). You’re now a female with colon cancer, but what if it was actually due to some genetic conditions from the male side? Changing it to female fucks with the data.
Do you think that they don’t have your whole medical history? Like if they’re looking for a Y-chromosome associated cancer they’ll just pull up my surgical and prescription history and see “oh yeah that’s related” or they’ll order a karyotyping to ensure they’re correct because XY-AFAB people and XX-AMAB people aren’t *that^ rare of an intersex condition, especially as chimerism is downright common.
However what’s much more common is hormonally associated phenomena that aren’t extremely well known to be such. The most famous example is that after not very long on hormones trans people’s heart attack symptoms change to our hormonal sex’s. For a long time it was so rarely known amongst emergency room professionals that trans people were more likely to die of a heart attack.
But beyond this, that’s medical professionals and it’s a complicated discussion that’s currently happening in both the medical and trans communities by those who are affected most by it and those who are experts on these topics. What was clearly meant by this post was not that, but rather that people should feel 100% certain as to what is between the legs of every acquaintance and stranger they meet and that the government needs to know what each and every individual’s birth sex is.
So the one percent of people who are trans are going to fuck up medical statistics? That’s your pathetic excuse for these comments? The most generous one can possibly be with you here is to say that’s a huge stretch. It’s certainly a weird thing to focus on.
I’m saying they should be accurately recorded so they can be accounted for. If you can’t see how this is a big deal, I can’t help you.
I honestly don’t care what you identify as. Be a fucking apache attack helicopter. I don’t give a shit. I want people to be able data from specific birthd and have them be able to accurately correlate the data. I don’t want the data to be fucked up because someone decided that they are a different gender.
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So adjust the data. That’s what science is. It’s always changing as we learn more about ourselves and our universe. Look, I’m really sorry that statistical conclusions drawn from inaccurate data aren’t helpful, but that’s true whether trans people exist or not.
Adjust the data? How?
You lose that data point. You can’t just magically fix it. That’s the whole point.
You had a gender identity when you were born?
I don’t even remember having an identity.
Mhm so your sex at birth doesn’t give a shit about how you feel. It cares about the genetic factors which led to you being born. Would you prefer there to be an additional field which tells everyone what sexual organ you were born with?
Why are you obsessed with baby genitals? This is starting to get creepy.
Don’t give a shit about baby generals. I give a shit about accurately recording things.
Then you’re setting yourself up to be slaughtered when The Baby Wars begin.😕
Do I think it’s important for a medical doctor? Sure. Do I think it’s important for you to know? No. Why would it be?
I’m just curious, has any strangers’ genitalia impacted you in any way that actually matters? And no sports don’t count no one gives a shit about the .1% of athletes who are trans and how much of an AdVaNtAgE they have.
From where I’m sitting, people just need to shut the hell up about other people’s lives. They impact you in no way. Yet you impact their lives, taking their rights away and driving them to suicide. These types of comments literally contribute to suicide. Your comment could be the last straw for someone reading it, and they could choose to end their life because of you. And you sleep at night fine I’m sure. You should care about what that says about you.
Other people have hard lives and you don’t need to make them harder. Deal with your own shit. Let others do their best to deal with theirs.
People do give a shit about sports, because that’s what’s always in the news.
I don’t care what you do privately. If you want to engage in some competition though, there’s rules and regulations and it’s important that everyone is on an even playing field. That’s the whole point about the different divisions.
My comment about having different divisions because you genetically decided to modify yourself may cause someone to end their life? I don’t think so champ.
I fight people and have opinions! Main thing right now being HEMA, mostly blunted axe + shield sparring. It’s mixed-gender and my experience is that men and women are pretty competitive with each other. I’ve also fenced competitively, which has male and female divisions but men and women practice against each other all the time. Across both sports, height is far, far more important than sex. Like if you’re 5’10", you inherently have an advantage in reaching your 5’6" opponent, whether they’re male or female. People focus on sex like it’s sufficient to equalize genetic advantages and “level the playing field” but think of the difference between the shortest man you know and the tallest man you know. Would you honestly say they’re on an even playing field in every sport because of their sex classification?
It really depends a lot on the sport, hormones and time do a lot more than you’d think, and male/female divisions aren’t a level playing field to begin with in many sports. Also sure, there is a reasonable discussion to have at a professional level, but in most sports at anything less than the most elite level it’s such a non issue. Anyone pushing to police it in kids’ sports via genital inspection has lost their minds.
Think about women’s sports!
Which women’s sports do you play or watch ?
It’s not that simple. Brains and exterior bodies are not necessarily coordinated like that, and bodies themselves take a myriad of forms.
Don’t be fooled by those saying “there are only Men and Women and That’s That.” It’s not true.
I don’t care the actual values. In fact, I want people to be happy so whatever you need to do to achieve that go ahead and do it.
I apologize if the following sentences aren’t exactly PC, don’t mean any harm by them.
I care about the values for other reasons. Say someone was born male, undergoes HRT and becomes female. Due to their birth genetics, they are more likely to get X disease. They have no health issues, undergo HRT or whatever, and then the disease is found. So now they are a female with X disease.
That data is very different. That’s all I care about.
I don’t think keeping lists of trans people is particularly good social awareness for stupidly obvious reasons: There’s a lot of people who would see such a list as a list of targets.
Realistically, most medical staff will be aware of commonalities. For instance in your example the specialist that treats "X’ disease will notice fairly quickly if a majority of their patients are trans especially since maybe up to 2% of the population is trans.
People are more than just data points.
You’re totally right. But the meme is probably referencing the fact that Republicans seem to care a lot about sex and gender when it comes to kids sports, or sports in general. That comes off worse considering Republican states are banning transgender treatment, or allowing conversion therapy. Seems like they really don’t like the LGBT community and try to hide it behind “health” related or “sports equality” related reasons.
Ok? Great? The post is missing the fact that whatever genitals you’re born with at birth is actually an important fact.
As you grow up, if you feel you are X instead of Y, great Good for you. That doesn’t change the environmental conditions that led to your birth.
Also with sports, the issue is with the league “names”. Create an “open” division where anyone can compete. Then create a division that’s biological females only. You think there’s no genetic advantage to someone who was a male for 30 years and then changed their gender (sorry if this isn’t worded the best). The issue here is creating a fair playing field for everyone.
As a trans man, I see this as an absolute win. /s
I’m just making a pedantic joke btw. I’m assuming you’re talking about cis women.
It’s clear that Joe is just a transphobe hiding behind “Oooo technically important oooo” ignoring the fact that the fascists want to check children’s genitals not for any of those “important” reasons
Get the fuck out of here.
I don’t care what you choose to identify as. But your gender at birth is an important data point.
No it’s not.
It’s not? So there’s no medical conditions which affect men more than women?
Interesting, interesting.
No it isn’t.
Are you crazy? There are many factors which led to that data point. How you feel about it later in life is a different story. You don’t choose to be a certain gender. It’s genetically chosen for you, and there are other issues which are dependent on that data point.
You may feel that you are a man or a woman during your life, and that may not confirm to your gender. That’s ok! But there may be certain diseases that are more prevalent in a woman. If you were born a woman and change your gender later in life, how does it affect that disorder,m
WHO is born as an adult?
I was born a baby.
If they were talking about that set it would be useful to specify that set. But of course that would mean using icky terms like “cis” instead of denying the humanity and even biological existence of trans people. Can’t be having that, now.
The women’s sports that they care so highly about at this time for some reason. Next they’ll probably talk about some hypothetical niece that plays sports and “whatever will she do” in sports with the trans
Yes?
If there’s no genetic advantage for men, why did Chess have separate divisions?
You must be a troll account because a human capable of literacy asking that question honestly is beyond comprehension.
I’m not. Go ahead and answer the question.
The ACTUAL answer is misogyny. Chess was(and still is tbh) a very misogynistic “sport” back in the day, and many male professional chess players refused to play against women, and the ones that did play against them were often crude. To try and get more women interested in chess, women only divisions were created. It has literally nothing to do with genetic advantages.
Lol ok. So the top classical femalechess player has an elo of 2628. The top male is 2830. That’s a huge difference.
Statistics(link).
I can’t speak for chess, but in gaming where there’s similarly no sex advantage, female gamers are rarely seen at the higher levels because the environment is very hostile towards them. Creating a separate women’s league would alleviate this to some degree and encourage more women to actually try to reach for the top.
So in esports there are also distinct female divisions. I haven’t seen a female team play a male team in Dota2, CS, LoL, any fighting games, etc.
Because the field is known to be hostile to women and filled with creepy incels? Have you SEEN how they act anytime a “female gamer” pops up?
So it’s not because of skill differences? Very weird…
I’m confused, what are you saying?
So the comment chain reference sports having different divisions for men and women.
These generally depend on a physical difference between men and woman.
Why would a sport which removed all physicality, still have separate divisions?
I dunno, why?
If there’s no difference in sports or shit with men and women, shouldn’t we just have one division?
If a sport that doesn’t depend on physicality still has separate divisions ( literally chess) what does that mean to you?
Shithead bigots such as yourself, one would imagine.
You’re using the existence of an oppression to justify the further propagation of that very oppression, and begging the question further.
You are missing the fact that this issue is so unimportant and that even talking about it when everything else is on fire is… well… kind of moronic tbh.
It is but unfortunately ignoring it just leads to our rights being stripped more
So I get there’s important social issues around gender. But at the same time people are so caught up in how they feel that they miss out on the important fact that your gender at birth means more than what you want your gender to be. There may be environmental issues which are dependent on your gender at birth.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by this and why it’s important? I don’t understand how your gender at birth affects the environment in any way that matters.
So there may be specific issues that are related to genetics. I don’t really work in that field, but let’s say that in a certain area, males more likely to have X disease and it shows after 30. So like colon cancer or something.
If they go and change their gender to female, how does it affect those stats? Are they suddenly less likely to experience those issues?
I honestly don’t give a shit about how you identify. I want you to be comfortable.
I still don’t see how that’s relevant to the environment. I’m guessing you just misspoke there.
Good science will consider your assigned sex at birth for these stats where relevant. No one is disputing the value of having that information and no one has problems with it because this data is all anonymized. The problem that the OP is referring to is when this data is collected without anonymization and used to bring harm to specific people based on their medical records. There’s no reason for anyone besides your doctor to have access to your medical records. Scientific studies require explicit consent to get that data.
“means more” isn’t a factual statement, it’s a value judgement and some people value being the best version of themselves more than they value leading a miserable existence because of their genetics. Environmental issues are also just that: results of the environment rather than innate expression of X or Y chromosomes. The point the OP post is making is that instead of focusing on economic policies, global warming, and wars, politicians are more focused on who decides they’d be happier as a man/woman/non binary person. It’s a complete waste of time for everyone BUT doctors and researchers since we shouldn’t be judging or limiting what people can do based on what genitals they were born with, and instead be focusing on how to fix massive, glaring, and disastrous issues such as the ones described in the post.
You sure seem intensely interested in baby genitals.
Should …should we call somebody? 🤨
Sure thing champ.
How the fuck does that make it any business of anyone other than your motherfucking doctor, and even then, significantly less often than you’ve convinced yourself of? (seriously - if your GP keeps asking you about your genitals every time you go in to see them, you should report them and find a new one, E: never mind them even knowing your chromosomic or genetic or even hormonal make up)
You’re just a wilfully ignorant transphobe trying to pretend they aren’t one.
But you are.
And if that bothers you - you can just stop being one! I guarantee its easier than being a miserable hateful little bigot, no need for all that mental gymnastics, for starters…
Otherwise - fuck off back up your own ass…
I don’t care about your gender at birth. Really don’t. I do think that your gender at birth has significance. If you were born a male with certain genetic factors, and you change your gender to female later in life, it is very important to know that you were born male with factors X Y Z and not female. It’s not a tough concept.
No, it isn’t a tough concept, you’re just a bigot. ¯\(ツ)/¯
I noticed that I edited my reply just as you posted this, so I’ll add this here because you made the exact leap I knew you would - does your doctor know your chromosomes? DNA? Have you ever even had your hormones tested? The answer is almost certainly “no”, because most people don’t, because those things are hardly ever relevant, and if they are, it isn’t because someone is trans (E: in most cases, anyway).
No matter how many ridiculous leaps you make, and how many times you swear you don’t care about gender at birth or whatever:
You
Are
A
Transphobe
No one gets tested for it because it’s very rare for it to not match up with your assigned sex at birth. Why spend hundreds of dollars on a test when you can just ask someone and get things right over 90% of the time? In recent years, doctors have always asked for both gender identity and assigned sex at birth, presumably because both are medically relevant.
But the OP is clearly not about medical data for healthcare purposes.
How do you know that if you don’t get tested?
Just like with anything else in life, you don’t know with 100% certainty, nor do you need to. But you can generally assume that if you see the same pattern over and over, that it will probably hold in future cases. When it comes to the relationship between your DNA and assigned sex at birth, that was tested in a small number of humans (work of Theophilus Painter) and the trend was found to hold. From that point on, we’ve discovered problems that are linked to one chromosome or the other which also exclusively/disproportionately affect people of one sex or the other. Evidence of this sort show that the model continues to hold up in all cases and so we continue to use it.
If you admit you don’t need to, why make a deal about knowing?
I get the impression I’m being mistaken for someone else in this thread.
If you’re asking about Joemo’s position, my understanding is that they think researchers are incapable of asking people for their assigned sex at birth and this will this draw incorrect conclusions from the data.
I’m not a transphobe lol. I don’t give a shit about it. I want you to be happy as a person, and you do you.
I don’t want incorrect conclusions being drawn from a shitty dataset due to people changing their gender at birth. You were born with a certain sex. You can’t change that, no matter how hard you try. That information is also valuable, there may be trends that affect a specific sex more. If you change your gender, you could pollute that dataset and lead to incorrect conclusions drawn.
Not everyone hates transpeople. Just because someone has a different opinion than you doesn’t mean they hate transpeople. Take a second to get off your high horse and actually think about the concepts I have commented about.
Why are you so incapable of learning?
Incapable of learning what? Why are you so incapable of thinking of ideas that go against what you believe?
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This comment feels like it’s from 2017 or something. If you’ve spent any amount of time on social media in the last few years, you know damn well how this comment would be responded to.
If trans athletes are causing a serious, quantifiable distribution in competitive sports, to the point you can direct me to multiple bodies of evidence that clearly show a trend of cis athletes being overshadowed, then, and only then will I agree there is a problem.
But there isn’t.
There was is reason to impose restrictions on trans athletes before there is any quantifiable evidence that their inclusion is a problem.
And the same goes for trans people in gendered bathrooms or any of the other shit people come up with as hypothetical problems.
Show me the trends. Show me where it’s a quantifiable problem first, then we’ll talk.
You need to protect the idea that people competing in a specific league don’t have any advantages.
Imagine if LeBron changed his gender and began competing in the WNBA. Do you think he’d magically suck, or would he dominate? This doesn’t magically change the 38 years of training that he has done as a male. It’s not a hard concept. When thinking about these things, you need to think about these edge cases because that is what is going to get abused.
strawman argument 101: what if EXTREME EXAMPLE happened? this should dictate how we treat all levels of competition because (???)
you act as if being trans is a choice made at a whim, and can be easily made to take advantage of a situation. obviously if some major athlete came out there would be more than just “oh she competes in the womens league now”, but we dont have to talk about that because that is such a worthless strawman argument
how will this affect lebrons legacy
You need to consider edge cases when making the rules. You can’t just ignore them and hope that people don’t abuse them.
I’m not acting like being trans is a choice. I want competitions to be in as level of a playing field as possible. Competing in sports is a choice though.
The edge case is called that for a reason, dictating every level of competition based on edge cases is how you push a narritive
Let olympic athletes and organizers sort out how they want to handle the .01% of athletes that are trans, basically every other level of competition it doesnt fuckin matter. The only reason its brought up 99% of the time is to push a transphobic narritive and i am so fucking sick of it
Ok, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Not everything is transphobic.
You can’t just make rules that are like “this is allowed unless Nikki@lemmy.world thinks it provides an unfair advantage”.
You don’t make rules and just hope and pray people don’t find edge cases and abuse it.
the issue is bringing bigoted government legislation into what should be exclusively top level competition. you and i both know that ted cruz (example) isnt gonna be playing touchy when it comes to taking away our rights
if its just the top level people deciding what an advantage is, in just high level sport, then fair. but letting that seep down to collage, high school, and below is a path to genetal inspections on teens and children
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You need to get out of your small town you’ve never left and meet some people who are more educated who can help you.
Nice assumption about my life! You probably shouldn’t make such dumb assumptions about someone you know nothing about!
I know I’m not wrong just by reading this.
Sure, ok.
The point of this meme is: is it really more important than all of those issues listed? Is having a slightly skewed dataset (which will not happen because people that ACTUALLY need to, know that) more important than healthcare itself being a complete disaster?
I’m not sure how preventing someone from changing the sex they were born with is at all related to healthcare being a complete disaster, but alright.
They’re not related. The point of the meme is that, even among those extremely important issues that permeate the entire society, the thing republicans choose to focus their efforts on is this boogeyman fight against trans people.
Why is that the most important thing on their minds when a ridiculous amount of people are in crippling debt just because of health reasons and the whole planet is slowly turning into a frying pan?
You’re right, it’s important for your doctor to know that stuff. And no one else.
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Isn’t that literally the point of the post?
Oh no someone doesn’t agree with me! https://tenor.com/bjl8N.gif
Sex is far more a matter of current hormonal wash than vestigial genetics.
Chromosomes don’t even do all that much, and you’re searching for reasons (perhaps unknowingly) to maintain hierarchies which are oppressive.
I get it, change is scary. The status quo however hurts people, and there is no reason to engage in apologetics for it.
There are genetic and environmental factors that actually influence your development. These affect how you are born and are important.
If you feel differently in the future, great. But these data points need to be recorded accurately. You were born as X. This is important. If you feel differently, and want to change it in the future, that’s fine. That doesn’t change the data point for when you were born.
You’re so caught up in your issue that you don’t realize the larger issue at hand.
No, they don’t.
How you feel about your gender, and what your gender based on the literal chromosomes and shit in your body are two very different things.
Chromosomes don’t actually do that much.
Feelings don’t actually do that much either, but you want them respected.
Incredible how often when a transphobe is asked to explain these ‘important reasons’ it literally relates to games. I’m taking about grown adults, so deeply concerned about games with balls that checking whether children who play have balls is now a fixation.