You can’t fight against capitalism with violence, this cause only more violence and suffering. Because the elite has all the force and weapons, apart to turn with it the oligarchs in martyrs, justifying more oppression. You can use votes, demonstrations, strikes. boycotts, sabotage. education and intelligence to fight the system, using it’s flaws against it.
You can’t fight against capitalism with violence,
Historically the only way you can fight against capitalism is with violence. There has never been a case in its entire ~400 year history where its relinquished power to socialist alternatives without violence.
You can only fight capitalism using violence. This cause non-violent acts are turned into merchandises. The profits made on red t-shirt with Che Guevara’s picture are profits. Votes, demonstrations, strikes only have value if they come with a demonstration of capacity of violence.
Which right was given by the imperialists without a fight or their fear of a fight?
Even social democrates use this. They make the richests affraid of a communist revolution to make them accept to give back a little bit of that they have stolen to workers. But they don’t do that to reduce violence, they try to balance the threats to make their living out of them.
Violence to force imperialists to renounce to their priviledges is unavoidable. The level of violence it will needs only depends on them. And they can’t coexist with a non-violent society, since their way of living is to exploit others (which is a constant violence).
“You can’t possibly fight the system, the elites have all the force and weapons! They’ll probably let you vote them out though idk…”
We have all the numbers.
Are you calling for a civil war? I don’t get these posts.
Vote with your dollar.
Vote with your dollar.
Doesn’t work, a tiny number of capitalists have more of them, and created a system / rigged game (bourgeois “democracy”) that perfectly serves their interests.
Voting with your dollar in a capitalist system only works if you have billions of them
not even, only if you are spending billion of them… (if you don’t use them you have no capitalist impact)
I can do both. I can vote and I can be violent.
2A defenders have been real quiet ever since the surge in ICE shootings
“Sure the game is rigged and the stack of bottles is glued together, but we just have to throw the ball really hard.”
Is that charlie kirk
Go girl! Beat his liberal ass.
“Fascism? I’m totally fine with it” -conservatives
“Fascism? Well… As long as the other guy is 1% more fascist I’m totally fine with it” -liberals
Oh, that’s absolutely true !!! lol
Repeating the last letter to denote holding a word out is one of my biggest icks for captioned images/memes.
Is rarely the sound that would be lengthened, and it gets super double extra annoying when the repeated letter is SILENT.
“Voteeeeeee” is just unambiguously wrong, and the creator of the title of this post should feel bad.
Edit: Why are you booing me? I’m right.
Our republican-defunded education system is really in the shitter, and test scores have been in freefall. We should probably savor what grasp of english writing people have now as its almost certainly going to decline.
Anger over repeated trailing silent letters is the least of our problems, so we have that going for us.
Trueeeeee
I get it, it’s hard to afford therapy when the system doesn’t want you to get better
chatgtp is our new therapist. It will sell all the information you tell it, but its only 20 a month.
All these opinionated hot takes lately, but not a whole lot of input on what should be done then? Just not vote? General strike would probably be the best bet, but good luck trying to organize that. I’d love to hear some more hot takes just in time to convince people to abstain from even going to the polls. How many of these people touting these views are actually doing things like grassroots work, I wonder? Or is that what posting memes on the internet is supposed to be considered?.. What’s the goal here? To shit on the libs? Ok, let’s hear a coherent concept of what we can all do to fight the broken system, that’s actually plausible and not just some fantasy circle jerk.
make demands from dem candidates and when they wont deliver, dont vote for them. They need to be scared of us, and they arent.
Just not vote?
Begging for people to understand “voting isn’t enough” doesn’t mean “you shouldn’t vote” unless that person includes “and you shouldn’t participate in it”.
Edit:
What’s the goal here? To shit on the libs
Sounds fun, yeah. It’s a meme. You don’t have to like it but it’s weird as fuck to expect memes to come with practical instructions.
You shouldnt vote for genociders.
Agreed.
organize
There you go, you answered it yourself. Involve yourself with an actual political principled leftist party.
Anti state violence meme
Hell yea
Posted by someone furiously jerking off to an imperialist invasion
The irony could not be more palpable
The only imperialist invasion is the burgerland empire’s nazi puppet gov in Ukraine
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Then go back to reddit
God there are too many liberal empire propagandists on Lemmy
You’re on a platform designed by tankies, dumbass
Honest question, why can you guys never go five seconds without proving the adage that all reactionary politics is sexual pathology
Ah yes, more “don’t bother voting” propaganda.
The message should be “you need to do more than just vote”
…We just have to vote…
The title of the post says voting isn’t enough.
Do radlibs have a MLM scheme where they get commission for getting people to vote for their cult leaders?
(I mean that would explain why they’re so desparate that they even try to shill voting to their worst enemies, the anti-imperialists)
the opposite. Checks are written when the rich and genociders get the voters to vote like they want. By comparison, No one gets paid when we all choose to do the decent thing instead.
Why would they pay off the voters when they can just pay off the lawmakers? Way cheaper.
So start local with a third party, then. I hear DSA is actually having some luck building up that way, and once you built a local foundation, they actually become viable at higher levels. A third party is never going to just come out of nowhere and win the presidency, but with a foundation under them… Well, people are getting tired of Democrats, and they might be willing to entertain other options.
Plus, if they just get big enough, other parties can actually influence the platforms of the main parties. The corporate parties are never going to give us everything we want, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t take what incremental change we can.
Not voting for genocide does more good than any amount of volunteer work within the democratic party could ever do.
Personally I’m not against voting (although I’m against the “support the lesser evil” rhetoric). I just hate that libs constantly downplay political violence (whether it be direct violence against politicians or their supporters or destruction of property) as an available tool that must never be used unless absolutely necessary. That if you do use it, you must distance yourself from leftists, anti-capitalists, Democrats, and basically make it seem like you only did it cause you were bored. Not doing so would hurt us too much.
Ah yes, more “don’t bother voting” propaganda.
the heart of the issue seems to be the legitimacy that voting gives to a system – participate if you chose do, just do so w the awareness of the fact your participation was more beneficial to the status quo than it was to you.
and, yes, you do need to do more than just vote; but if you lack an understanding of why your increased participate is now necessary you’ll be treading water at best – like the democrats.
there have been people who’ve been in this situation before and wrote down what they did with the benefit hindsight included – if you look at their stuff you’ll find out what you need to do beyond voting.
The system gets legitimacy from the 150 million people who vote. A tiny minority of leftists refusing to participate does not delegitimize the system one iota. As a cis hetero white man, honestly my vote either way doesn’t affect me all that much, other than maybe being thrown in jail for leftist organizing. But it also doesn’t really affect the status quo either. I vote to benefit the people who would suffer under one choice more than the other: people of color, women, the LGBTQ community, immigrants, etc.
And yes, obviously we need to build an alternative where no one suffers, but that takes time. Personally, I prefer to at least attempt to minimize the suffering of others during that time. Accelerationism is sociopathy.
you’re either unwilling or unable to see that the things that the accelerationists want is the eventual outcome anyways because of the way the system is intentionally structured and history proves that nature will ensure that the commeuppance gets worse the longer we put off making a change.
turning the election into a farce through a lack of cooperating they way they want you to is the easiest & laziest way for an american to help induce such a change, but it will not work if too many people are unable/unwilling to see past the parliamentary mind games that makes you think that you’re helping the people they’re holding ransom for your vote.
I vote to benefit the people who would suffer under one choice more than the other: people of color, women, the LGBTQ community, immigrants, etc.
as a neurospicy queer brown immigrant, i implore you to stop – look at the pattern established by the last near century of the red vs blue team culture wars to recognize it for the smoke screen that it is.
turning the election into a farce through a lack of cooperating they way they want you to is the easiest & laziest way for an american to help induce such a change, but it will not work if too many people are unable/unwilling to see past the parliamentary mind games that makes you think that you’re helping the people they’re holding ransom for your vote.
Too many people are unable to see past the parliamentary mind games. If you can’t persuade a hundred million people, that strategy is pointless and ineffective. You can’t persuade a hundred million people, so this strategy is pointless and ineffective.
Agamoronymous
it’s pointless for me to try because i can’t, but mother nature can and she will.
I vote to benefit the people who would suffer under one choice more than the other: people of color, women, the LGBTQ community, immigrants, etc.
The people being Palestinians, got it.
No, they’re suffering either way. My heart, and some of my money, goes out to them. But their suffering is not dependent on my vote. If it was, I would vote that way. But it isn’t.
Yikes.
yeah you don’t care about genocide. They are suffering because of people like you.
Fucking disgusting person
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I remember you told me immigrant children suffering in America was justified because they have the privilege of living in the imperial core, and then justified it saying they would suffer either way.
I said it was not the responsibility for the people outside the imperial core to take care of your children. You would rather other children suffer to have yours not, instead of fixing the system that originates from your fucking country
Absolute spineless follower shit, you would 100% have done nothing to oppose slavery
Like most people in all of history we wouldn’t have opposed the normalized oppression of other people, yes this is a fact.
But you are saying people during slavery were wrong for voting in favor of less slavery because it didn’t start with full human rights for slaves so they shouldn’t have voted at all.
People aren’t spineless for believing in a different strategy and even if they where, you are not selling your point of view very well. The sucess of your strategy would mean conving enough people not to vote and just name calling is not doing much.
There is the obvious Problem of all democracies and especially the US System but i don’t really see how more power to republicans will ever come close solving this.
I am very open to all kinds of strategies but i have yet to see any kind of data that suggests even more fascism will lead to a better outcome.
Tell me more about the slaves who voted for less slavery.
I wouldn’t have done stupid counterproductive shit that just made things worse without any benefit.
I think the “follower shit” comment betrays your bitterness at not actually having any followers. You’re never going to get your revolution if 99.999% of the population is too “spineless” to caucus with. If you can’t find common ground with other leftists who are already sold on communism because they disagree with your strategy, how in the absolute fuck are you expecting to persuade the liberal working class?
counterproductive shit
Like voting for democrats
So your all proposing we purge every other year. Thats your best idea
“Hey we need to build proletarian organizations to channel political energy in a non-dead end direction”
You:
Thats not what was said. Anymore strawmen
I will hunt you for sport
Incredible bit to talk about “strawmanning” when you wrote this
So your all proposing we purge every other year. Thats your best idea
Give your nose a honk and tell me what you hear
It’s a lot closer to what you said than this:
So your all proposing we purge every other year
is to what anyone said.
The system is “self-legitimazing” regardless of how many people choose not to vote. Consider the current president didn’t even get the majority of votes.
Instead of buying into the liberal myth that voting creates legitimacy, look at voting as choosing which boss you are going to fight.
The owner has set up this system where he says you get to choose the boss. Even if you do, at best you get to choose who interprets the owners orders. Spending all your time fighting for one boss or the other or against specifically the boss is the wrong thing to do. The correct thing to do is to fight to get rid of the owner and this system, to create a new system that is truly democratic, that will listen to the workers.
Spending all your time fighting for one boss
That is certainly not what I am advocating for when I say go vote for who you want to fight against.
The correct thing to do is to fight to get rid of the owner and this system, to create a new system that is truly democratic, that will listen to the workers.
Voting does not prevent you from building dual power.
at best you get to choose who interprets the owners orders.
And that has material consequences. To ignore that is to limit who you are able to work with.
“Vote for who you want to fight against!”
Say the people who have exactly zero interest in fighting against the Democrats. So are you going to be voting for the Republicans? Or are you giving us advice you would never take yourself
Nah, I’m voting for the working family party or peace and freedom when that is an option. Where i live the national always goes dem so there is no chance of spoiling the vote.
vote for who you want to fight against.
Except in Amerika you’re not voting for who you’re fighting against you’re simply voting for which mask the actual people in power put forth (the good pr nice mask (democrats), the tough and mean mask (republican)). The real boss is not the American president, or Congress, etc but the capitalists behind them who you very specifically get no vote on and to who your vote by design has no tangible material effect on.
who your vote by design has no tangible material effect on
That may be true for you, but it is not true for others. Any revolution predicated on ignoring the material reality of the masses is doomed to fail.
Being not Amerikan it is true for me in a way but not in the way you’re implying. You genuinely believe your vote at the Amerikan ballot box has tangible material effects on capitalists interests? That’s a pretty extreme stance that even most liberals would retreat from if pressed.
Any revolution predicated on ignoring the material reality of the masses is doomed to fail.
This is a nonsequitor that doesn’t address anything I said.
So you’re saying if we vote for party1, all party2 members will magically disappear and we don’t have to fight them anymore?
Am I to take your question in good faith? Because I really don’t understand how you made this leap from what I said.
You said “Vote for who you want to fight against”, which may make sense in a videogame, but not irl, so I pointed out the contradiction.
Pushing “don’t even bother trying” is just supporting the fascists.
Both parties are fascist
If you hear “voting for the polite fascists is not really better than voting for the loud ones” and take that as “don’t even bother trying”, then you really may as well not bother trying, bcs nothing you were trying was ever going to help, and most of it will just strengthen the fascists.
Please point to the part of the meme / title that encouraged voting for anyone let alone anything else. This is just disenpowerment and pushes the narrative that it’s hopeless to try anything at all under the guise of “liberals bad” (which I don’t necessarily disagree with, but this is training people to give up entirely)
Learn to read
So you really did hear “voting for the polite fascists is not really better than voting for the loud ones” and take that as “don’t even bother trying”.
You, specifically, should absolutely give up and don’t bother trying.
voting is pointless and promoting the idea it does anything causes people to do less.
Cool. So you’re armed and ready, right?
“Oh if you correctly identify an issue with our current system then you must have organised a proletarian uprising that will be launched as soon as I ask it of you, otherwise your argument is moot.”
More like “You want to discourage people from voting and encourage rebellion because you’re a moronic accelerationist who has no clue what he’s actually suggesting.”
What lib podcast mentioned accelerationism? You guys all mention it now, and you do it wrong by the way. An accelerationist would vote democrat since they are more capable stewards of empire and the accelerationist wants capital to accumulate as quickly as possible.
What lib podcast mentioned accelerationism?
Seriously! I’m genuinely curious to know. It’s so fucking obvious the way they all started suddenly using it constantly while clearly not knowing what it means.
I have a board game friend who is very into Behind the Bastards and has recently been using accelerationism out of nowhere. Not sure if behind the bastards is the cause for sure though since I don’t listen to it.
Interesting. So aside from proving that you don’t know what accellerationists do or believe and that you literally cannot imagine any way to make a difference other than your quadrennial tilt at the windmills begging the ruling class for better crumbs, was there a point to your comment?
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Gonna take that as a no
No, that doesn’t fit at all. I think you might have replied to the wrong comment? Or maybe you misread something?
Then explain your position.
Correctly identifying the issues with a system does not mean you have to have all solutions a disingenuous lazy asshole wants from you immediately.
Being able to deduce that voting for genociders does nothing good does not mean a person has to actively sit at the helm of a militant revolutionairy organisation.
Yes
Sure you are. Just waiting for someone else to start it, right?
Start what, exactly?
Don’t play dumb.
Tell me
No, the message should be to build a vanguard party that can channel violent sentiment in the direction of class struggle rather than voting liberal under the pretense of antifascism and damage control.
If you actually thought this the only time you would give this response is when voting was actually occurring.
Capitalists must be so relieved that socialist and communist enclaves advocate disengaging from the electoral process, as if an afternoon or less spent voting, two if you vote in a primary, precludes one from otherwise protesting, organizing, or lifting a finger to resist.
Ah yes, because capitalists just hate it when leftists vote for capitalist parties as a matter of protest lmao
Capitalists hate this one simple trick!
