idk it’s my first time (kind of) trying to do dataviz, I thought the original post was super interesting but like other comments said, it was hard to read.
I think in a way it’s mostly because defederation is complex to show as links, since it is the break of said link, but hopefully this type of graph is better ?
you do lose the “group” of instances view, though (and also I did not bother with per instance MAU as raw number + percentage, or sofware used)
let me know what you think!
I think it’s prettier but harder to glean information from.
Blahaj federated lemmynsfw? Interesting
Very cool, bien joué ha ha
So why does everyone hate lemmygrad and hexbear? I’m out of the loop on that.
Tankies act a heck of a lot like Alt-Right MAGA, both outright calling for genocide so long as it is done against their enemies rather than allies. In short, tankies claim to be leftist, but aren’t.
That said, Hexbear isn’t even that much really, so much as pure trolling for its own sake. Both are examples of what happens when echo chambers are allowed to exist for a long time - the people inside become radicalized and immune to factual information from the outside that may run counter to their allowed list of interpretations of matters.
tankies.
Hexbear originated from ChapoTrapHouse fandom which is a part of the so-called dirtbag left that explicitly antagonizes (neo)liberals. They also don’t use downvotes and encourage users to voice their opinions instead.
So every wave of redditor freaks the hell out when they get a handful of hexbear users clowning on some take like it’s a coordinated brigade attack.
I have mixed feelings about that. Thanks for explaining!
I should probably add there’s also been a community on my instance dedicated to portraying Hexbear, Lemmygrad, and .ml in the worst possible way, usually by taking a single comment or DM out of context. The user running it finally fucked off from the Fediverse just a month or two back.
Since that community is now being run by overt Zionists who are into spreading outright doctored screenshots, hopefully it’ll fall into long overdue irrelevance. If you ever see the term ‘tankie triad’ that’s probably one of them.
tankie bullshit
they are too extreme for the normal extremists.
lemmygrad because they are perceived as tankies / commies, and thus get all the kneerjerk reaction from the people who are unwilling to apply the same standards to the US, the EU or Israel.
Hexbear, honestly no idea.
It doesn’t even Include https://lemmy.today/ that has no defederation or blocking at all, and has never had, since the admin feels it’s up to the user and not the admin to decide these things. You know, free and open internet, remember?
Also one of the best themes of all Lemmy instances if you ask me.
You gotta ask the OOP about that, but my guess is, in a graph that shows instances that defederate, why include an instance that doesn’t?
why include an instance that doesn’t?
Because it lets you see how common or uncommon defederations are relative to the total set of all instances (or at least, all minus the long tail of very-low-user-count ones). And although it would make the graph larger, it would also make it sparse and IMO that would also be easier to read.
It could also give a misleading impression that all instances defederate or are defederated by somebody, making people think it’s more common than it actually is. (Or maybe not doing that, if you include allish instances and it still ends up being not very sparse.)
I see your point I guess. Perhaps defederation is something that users want, and then they are happy to see who does it the most?
Im not like that myself, but I can see the point.
Came here to say that!
I can’t comprehend why people would join instances in the list. If you don’t like a particular instance, just hop into the user settings and block it! Why let others set your blocklist?
The first and most obvious is that (last I checked on Lemmy) per-user instance blocks only block posts, not comments. This means that for truly spammy instances (cough Hexbear cough) it requires an instance-wide block to achieve.
Secondly, I would argue it is the same as any other reason to choose an instance. That being, I have to generally like the vibe and agree with the way it’s run. For example, I have to agree with the instance rules and trust the admins to moderate them. This is an extension of that.
In the case of lemmy.ca specifically, I would say every major defederation I know of has been cast to a community vote and has had solid reasoning behind it. It comes back to trust and matching opinions: I (currently) trust the admin team to have reasonable defederations as they have matched or been similar to my opinions in the past.
I enjoy not having to self-moderate my experience outside of individual users or rare cases. Choosing an instance that generally aligns with your views allows your admin team to do some moderation for you.
Besides ideology, preferences, bot filtering, or content, there’s also the matter of blocking things like CSAM, gore, etc. Lemmy proposes to not only factor in user preferences but also to properly curate the content via its moderators.
because it’s less work.
Doesn’t take much normally. But still, I think Lemmy would surely benefit from adding custom filter lists that users can enable or disable at will.
I love how almost everybody defederates with Lemmygrade lmao
Too be fair unlike the other instances this is without doubt an instance for the Russia bootlickers.
Yeah, Russia and China bootlickers.
I don’t know what are the worse ones, tho, if these two of the US bootlickers.
It’s hard to decide.
A bit scarier than the previous one at first glance, but the single line explanation including everything needed to understand makes it easier to read.
Something though, I think it’d be better to have a cut-off of MAU or some other relevance metric, as otherwise smaller instances defederating from major ones may sneakily make the major one seem more isolated than it really is.
Or scale arrow size by MAU, I don’t know.
That sounds like a great idea, that’s some of the most important information.
I notice that it presents sites with the same editorial body as separate cases, such as piefed.ca and lemmy.ca. Perhaps it would make sense and potentially improve readability to collapse any cases that have the same in and out arcs as each other. (So, all the cases that have no blocks and only block lemmygrad as one collapsed entry, for example.)
I know lots of folks look at this and see a shattering of the what they expect. The Fediverse is NOT a platform. Lemmy.world is NOT the Threadiverse. Let’s break these bonds. I left a server because I was suspected of being a CIA plant. I went to one that was more welcoming. I found they were too strict for me on their rules. I left that. I’m not on piefed.social. I’m planning on running my own piefed for ME and MY family/friends hopefully SOON^TM. If someone defederates from me, that’s ok, they didn’t want me to be a part of their community. MY community still exists.
These aren’t platforms that are out there trying to save the entire world. They’re building a community that interconnects to other communities. Don’t like how they’re doing it, you can literally spin up your own for dollars per month.
Yes, if you want your stuff to be found you have to advocate for it.
I think the Trek communities are stand outs of how this works and how it should be done. Think of like old Forum days. Normally folks would create a forum for a specific topic and other thigns would go other places. But now those forums connect and you can run your own and connect to everyone.
Break this idea that this major pillars disconnecting are fracturing the fediverse. IMO the more small instances we have the stronger the network.
So build a Piefed/Lemmy/Mastodon/GoToSocial/Bonfire whatever for your community and then allow those to connect out to others.
The idea of this change is scary though. And maybe I’m wrong. Maybe we can’t exist the way I hope we do. But I think humans strive for community and communication and we have a new way to provide it to them.
Besides, and related to “not being a platform”, it helps break the idea of everyone having to share the same space with everyone. If two groups can’t have a healthy relationship, it is healthier for them to cut ties with each other. Meanwhile, the oligarchic platforms being as big and with barely any internal borders makes for the toxic environment of places like Reddit and Twitter that predates recent polemics.
Don’t like how they’re doing it, you can literally spin up your own for dollars per month.
Not so easy.
Mostly a liability issue.
First there’s security - make sure the server doesn’t get compromised.
Then you need to figure out how to deal with illegal content like CSAM (was already a widespread issue on Lemmy at least once, causing multiple instances to shutdown) - even on private instance due to content caching.
And legal issues such as minimum age and privacy regulations that you’d have to comply with.3rd one is not an issue if you only use it yourself, and perhaps with a couple of friends that won’t try to sue you when they get mad.
Well said, agent Johnson.
God bless the U.S. of A
There are 500 Lemmy instances and 80 PieFed instances which are too small to show on the graph :)
It would be cool if every instance were a circle, and then you could see the lines
Agreed. Its federated. Let instances do thier thing. It gives us more options not less.
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I always thought that people are drawn into the default instances because they have less friction to sign up and login in third-party apps. Along with new people not quite grasping how the fediverse works when they start using it.
Yes. This. Big Tech has taught folks that there’s only ONE place to sign up. We have to help folks realize, and undo the damage, of centralization. And that’s going to be a very personal and community minded idea. We shouldn’t be going up to everyone and yelling “SIGN UP TO MASTODON!” Because we’ll get “how?” And the answer will be mastodon.social. Instead we need to find groups, let’s say your local gaming group and say “hey I set up this thing that allows us to talk about our local gaming group and OH YEAH it connects to all this other cool shit btw.”
Hexbear uses a whitelist so they are not federated with a bunch of these instances besides .world
The Hexbear Great Firewall exists to keep the Beanis contained
Now I am curious what is going on in fedinsfw.
Legal risk. Being federated means mirroring the content locally and that can cause liability for the instance owner. Laws around porn can vary by country and to some being federated could be illegal, or be an unreasonable risk.
porn that makes most folks uncomfortable
Reposting porn from other sites i assune
Ah, thankyou! As a lazy person not sure who my instance was blocking, I now know. Excellent. Better find an instance who doesn’t block any instances.
I’m on sh.ijust.works because it has a bad word in it. I don’t know what you’re all complaining about
Amen, sib. If there’s one with cunt in its name we’ll go there!
I’m kinda surprised that so many instances have defederated from fedinsfw.app It’s just porn, right? Who cares?
Maybe I’m naive and missing an important point. If so, I apologize for my ignorance.
If people want porn there’s a million places they can look instead. It makes sense to just remove porn spam from your instance, most people don’t really want it in with everything else. Also, it’s harder to moderate or find people willing to moderate it.
Okay. Those all sound like good reasons. Thanks!
The way the apps and frontends are setup, its easy enough to use alts for different usecases instead of having porn attached to general instances. Seperating gooner personas from regular is a positive imo. Keep that energy on the nsfw instances, banning them isn’t like reddit getting rid of a community, everyone still can sign up and access it on the same app they already use. I always hated scrolling on r/all and seeing porn every 5 posts (nsfw tag covers a lot of non porn) Doesn’t mean I don’t use reddit for porn, I think I wouldve preferred having an alt there that only showed porn subs and vice versa with my main account showing none. Some seperation is healthy imo.
i havent seen any of the discussions leading to this, but i assume the sheer amount of images/video takes up a lot of space, so they instances decided to avoid it altogether.
that and potential risks if something particularly unsavory becomes mirrored on your instance.
For the .ml instances, it is due to ideological opposition to porn because of it’s exploitation of workers and coercive/abusive practices.
but i assume the sheer amount of images/video takes up a lot of space
You can adjust settings in Lemmy to not store other instances media like this, so this shouldn’t be a big problem with the right config.
i know blahaj at least defederated it because of “a community for porn of women that appear to be under 18” (direct quotation from a local-only post)
i couldn’t find it myself (there’s a lot of communities on there!) but i’m guessing it’s some sort of “barely legal” porn community, which is gross (but unfortunately very common). so good riddance imo
Ick. That’s a good reason, too.
It’s not just porn.
It’s pretty much all fetish and kink stuff… At least last time I looked. Including cartoons of children. Maybe worse than cartoons. Noped out quick. Cops find that shit in your cache and you might be going to prison.
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This graph is indeed a lot more intuitively readable. I think it could be improved further by avoiding needlessly crossing the arrows, like for example pawb.social -> lemmygrad.ml is crossing multiple other arrows, even though they are right next to another. Some arrows could also be shorter to avoid crossings, like beehaw.org -> sh.itjust.works
