Comparing makeup to surgery? She can’t show herself underground surgery on live TV even if she wanted to. What a nasty idiot.
Surgery doesn’t change gender, gender is a social construct changed by social transition.
For the record, race is also a social construct, racist de facto caste systems are determined by skin color but they have no scientific basis.
Gender affirming surgery is in no way required for transition but is done for the mental well-being, quality of life, and in some cases ease of social acceptance of the individual.
Genuine question, isn’t there enough genetic differentiation between certain populations that they would be considered a distinct grouping, is there a name for this ?
Like how medically there is enough (genetic) differentiation in certain circumstances to affect diagnosis and/or treatment.
I agree race is a social construct, especially given how it’s used, I’m just wondering if there is a name for the groupings (or if they exist at all , i suppose)
edit: Added clarification to the differentiation to make it specifically genetic, because that could also be affected by environmental things.
further edit: now i think about it , genetics can just be a long term accumulation of environmental pressures so it’s kinda murky anyway
Yes, lots, but it doesn’t correspond with the social construct of race, ie. A given “black” person could be substantially more genetically similar to a given “white” person than they are to another person who would be considered a “black person.” The genotypal groupings of human populations does not comfortably correspond to phenotypal/cultural groupings of human populations.
ooh, i think genotypal might be what i was thinking of.
Where phenotypal is a mixture of environmental and genetic expression , genotypal would be exclusively the part derived from genetics.
Would genotypal typically include epigenetics as well or only the fixed DNA based parts?
Close but not quite, genotype is the actual dna, phenotype is the observational characteristics.
But yes, epigenetics would fall under phenotype essentially.
I think there would be, but it would be very messy and you’d have to focus on specific things.
Eg. Certain populations can’t really drink milk or there’s a tribe that has enlarged kidneys and a strong dive reflex because they swim under water a lot to hunt fish
yeah, I think there’s also a people who have an adapted eye lens shape to help with underwater acuity, Sherpa’s with oxygen efficiency at high altitude etc.
I wonder if there is a name for the taxonomic distinction here.
Purely scientifically the Wikipedia page suggests a whole bunch of different types of biological taxonomic distinctions that could be applied, but acknowledges that definitions are all over the place and not necessarily agreed upon.
In that sense you’d need to adjust yourself biologically, at the genetic level, to satisfy some of the definitions.
All of that disregards the non-biological connotations of the discussion though, so not super helpful here, just interesting.
“We also can’t do anything about equality when it comes to financial security. Give a poor a thousand dollars, they will still be a filthy poor!”
Wow. Racist AND transphobic. Hilarious.
You could have just Googled this if you just wanted an answer…
If anyone doesn’t want to give Reddit any kind of traffic, the answer is this:
There have been studies done on dead transgender people that demonstrate that trans people have differing brain structures; a trans woman’s brain will have many (but not all) of the features that a cisgender woman’s brain has. The same goes for trans men.
source: https://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/131/12/3132.full
There is no such evidence for transracial people as that’s not really a thing. Race is much more of an artificial concept than gender, and has little biological basis. Black people are not of a different race than white people, they simply have different genetic traits that are well within the boundary for counting as the same species.
race as a social construct: http://www.jstor.org/stable/188702?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
Brain regions can be considered masculinized or feminized depending on their response to sex hormones (look up the preoptic area for a well-studied example of this); there’s no such thing as a ‘race hormone’ that can ‘blacken’ or ‘whiten’ brain regions.
estrogen modulates neuronal movements within the developing preoptic area/anterior hypothalamus: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2295210/
Your comment deserves to be on top.
The JSTOR article seems to be loginwalled. You can get access to it from here.
My hot take: I’d be fine with people being transracial; I’m not here to make other people jump through the performance of cultural litmus tests.
Disingenuous people will be punished by validation and the continued performance of their own lies. Don’t reward their attention seeking behaviors and persecution fetishes with negative attention and persecution.
tl;dr you gotta throw them off their rhythm.
Something in a similar vein for her specifically to consider:
Changing your last name to Bolsonaro does not make you related to the president of Brazil.
Ah yes, the gender change surgery.
She’s right – surgery doesn’t change gender.
It only helps one’s body conform to the gender they already are. Getting surgery doesn’t turn a man into a woman (or vice versa). They were already a woman, and the surgery just helps them look and feel like it. A trans woman doesn’t become a woman when she gets a surgery – she becomes a woman when she realizes she’s trans (or, rather, realizing she’s trans reveals to her that she was always a woman).
Exactly.
Brainwiring/gender is above-the-neck, & sex is below-the-waist gonads.
They are distinct.
The gaslighters who insist that one’s “identity” overrides one’s body, are gaslighting.
Having people get the wrong medical-treatment because their gender-identity is all that is shown on their medical-chart, so they’re being treated for male problems, while pregnant…
that whole category of problem is created by the falseness/artifice of “identity is the only reality” ideology/religion.
BOTH need to be identified, & BOTH have validity.
_ /\ _
I will never understand why someone else’s gender identity is any of their concern
I will never understand why some else’s preferred pronouns should be any of my concern.
at least the username checks out
she’s a piece of shit :)
I agree.
But I’m trying to think of a valid argument as to why you can change your gender but not race.
What makes you think that you can’t change your race?
If you can change your gender, you can change your race.
So yea seems like you can
Because race is a stupid term made to group people based on their appearance. 500 years ago it didn’t even exist.
Gender is a deeper aspect which exist from the begining of our species.
Both seem to just be social constructs, so you should be able to change both
The reason, fyi, is because they’re two different categories of thing. Gender is, and always has been, centered around the social aspects. Presentation, identity, roles, behaviours.
Race is a complex category, with a mix of physiological and culture dependent aspects.
You can’t change your race because you can’t change your heritage, which is a component.You can, however, change your cultural identity. It’s not a perfect analog to gender, obviously, but it’s closer to race.
Much like how we conflated the names for the sexes with the names for the genders, many cultures share a name with a race that is a prominent member. This is often acutely clear to mixed race people or people adopted into a different racial household.They’re not changing gender, they’re changing their body to match their gender.
Sure, but does that mean you can also change your body to match your race? Like isn’t race also a social construct?
Irish people weren’t considered white not too long ago, so surely it must be.
Race is also a social construct, as you point out.
Skin color is a genetic phenotype., biological sex is too. Those phenotypes are inherited.
So yeah, you could change your appearance: skin color, bone structure, musculature, etc with surgery.
Michael Jackson is a good example of this (though he had vitiligo). Compare pictures of his face in his early career to later. He was still ‘African American’ though.
Gender is not inherited
I don’t see how that’s relevant
Gender isn’t a heritable trait. I’m not a boy because my dad was a boy any more than I am a girl because my mom was a girl. I am white because my parents were white
Sort of. You’re white because that’s the box that society put you into. There are children of African-American parents who are so light-skinned that they pass as white and vice versa. Regardless of what race your parents are, you are the race that people perceive you as, because it’s only based on perception.
I should gave clarified that it’s a bit more complex. Even I’m not sure how I really feel about this topic. Of course I’m white because I have light skin and my parents were white, but it becomes a lot more complicated when you’re melanistic with white parents or albino with black parents. And then there’s mixed races. Is a lighter skinned black guy “whiter” than a darker skinned mixed guy?
I’m waaay too white to be commenting on who can and can’t be considered what races lmao
deleted by creator
Why is race not based on how you perceive yourself? There are many people who walk the line between races, should they be forced to be the race that others think that they best match?
How would you even ‘force to be a race’ ?
You can force people’s gender by criminalizing gender affirming care
Do you think banning blackface is remotely comparable?
Whiteness is an exclusionary concept, it’s entire purpose is to create an in-group and out-group.
Ok then. I don’t give a shit about gender. That isn’t biological. That’s psychological.
Only care about sex. That’s biological.
Race is based on hereditary and genetics. It’s not reducible to simply skin color. Race is a spectrum, so there’s endless ‘off-whites.’
People aren’t born with identities anymore than they are culture. No one is born with a gender, apparently. They’re born with a sex.
If you leave young kids alone they’ll eventually get naked and, uh, investigate each other … regardless of sex.
Now you understand where TERFs are coming from. Right? Right?
Right?
One could argue no one is born with a gender identity. No one is born with a sexual orientation. But thinking makes it so. So where do those thoughts come from? Because it’s not kids.
gross
Got that one labeled as a fascist so, checks out
You can label users on here? Like private notes? Or am I misunderstanding you?
ok, so no word of a lie, i saw your comment, look at the name, read it as “fascistBasis” and I’m like dayum, they be self identifying and everything nowadays.
then realised my mistake.
I guess TERF would be more exact
Their controversial comments are less bad than I expected from my previous interaction with them, besides the TERFbrained comments
Yeah that was an easy block
I’m a Democratic socialist, Stalin.
OK, so i really need to preface this with the fact that this is a genuine question, my knowledge of political ideologies and their naming schemes is basically “things i heard in passing on the internet”.
Also apologies if it’s a joke that i’ve /whooshed on.
What is the difference between the type of democratic socialist you are and a social democrat.
Is it a Peoples Front Of Judea type of thing ? or is there a legitimate difference?
The reason i ask is that the only other social democrat (or democratic socialist, assuming there isn’t a difference) political ideology I’ve heard of was the precursor to the nazi’s.
It’s really not a dig, i’m interested in the answer.
Lol that checks out
Downvote. Unsubstantial.
Living up to your username
Isn’t that the point?
Now you understand where TERFs are coming from. Right? Right?
No.
You might need fallopian tubes to understand.
No.
Gotcha. I can explain things to you, but I can’t understand them for you.
Have a good day.
-
Because gender is a social convention
-
because I did and it worked. I’m a woman and everybody around me sees and and we all just get on with life. (See part 1)
-
If you don’t see why, then why do you agree she’s a piece of shit?
It’s definitely a complex issue with nuances that go beyond the surface level of the argument. The short answer is that gender is a fluid expression, race is static because it’s your heritage.
There’s way more to it obviously, but I’m not really qualified or eloquent enough to really get into it.
idk Michael Jackson did… something
Not that anyone who takes this seriously would care, but sex change surgery doesn’t change gender, it changes anatomy. A person is already the gender they are before or after any medical interventions
This terf would be so owned if he could read.
Race and gender continually being used as a straw man while the elites advance their anti democratic agenda against all of us is the most ridiculous thing I’ve had to witness in this timeline.
What an ugly person.
Considering gender is a social construct and pigmentation isn’t…
Pigmentation doesn’t determine your race though
Race is made up nonsense by racists to justify discrimination.
If pigmentation isn’t race, what is race?
I mean. You said it yourself: it’s a set of made up factors.
In regions of Africa it was nose size and height. There’s also hair textures, and … You know, really any heritable physical feature has probably been raced up at some point.
Even outside of a discrimination context, it’s just arbitrary physical characteristics that lump people from roughly similar areas and heritages together.
Changing your coarse physical characteristics doesn’t change your race because it doesn’t change your heritage, it’s not heritable, and race is extremely mixed up with culture.
It may be a synthetic division (if you went in blind and grouped people by DNA you’d be extremely unlikely to group them based on any particular racial basis), but it’s still physically based in a way that gender isn’t.
Pigmentation isn’t race, if it were then someone with Albinism would be a different race to their same-race-parents.
