I’m speaking broadly because I really don’t want to start a fight here. It feels like many sides will never ever yield on anything and honestly, I’ve grown tired of the constant fighting
“the technology is inevitable, bro. it’s inevitable, bro. you’re a luddite for opposing historical progress. stop slandering the technology.”
every argument for LLMs I’ve heard came from people who are unable to comprehend a world where art, human language, and conversation aren’t commodities.
Why are they downvoting you? You’re right!!
Probably because this comment is arguing against a strawman and their follow-up is an accusation that AI defenders are porn addicts.
It’s okay to point out that AI is slop or whatever. It’s a position that can be argued for or against. But a baseless accusation is just gonna make people angry.
It’s not a strawman, that’s how you and yours actually talk. And I think the porn addiction thing is fair speculation in absence of another explanation for your ruthless commitment to defending this highly dubious tech. We all know it’s a real problem with the internet, and AI going to make that problem worse.
I work with children and I do know what AI is doing. I know that some children’s crayon drawing is gonna be their favorite character from the latest AI slop channel on YouTube. Don’t assume anything about me.
We cannot put the cat back on the bag, that’s the problem. The tech is out there and capital has already absorved it as its latest way to exploit workers. Like every new technological advancement, it takes away humanity from us because it’s used by capital, and not because its nature (like, be for real: if not AI channels, then it would be Elsagate. The rot is way deeper than just AI). And like every new technological advancement, it also has it’s positives that can be used by workers for their own cause, like processing hundreds of pages of text.
I’m not gonna tone police you or anyone else because this AI shit is still uncharted territory and you have the right to be angry. I dunno, it’s just hard to have a conversation that doesn’t devolve into name-calling.
Ok, this is fair. Definitely a more “measured” take then some I’ve seen on here. And you’re right about throwing out baseless accusations, I regret that I defended that, and I’m sorry I made a baseless assumption about you.
It’s okay. No offense taken.
There are also a lot of people who cannot comprehend sex not being a commodity and I’ve wondered if the people defending AI might be addicted to AI porn and are just doing a reaction formation thing.
We are just unironically regurgitating the Silesian weavers’ revolt.
Very exhausting. I constantly have to remind myself that the people who dehumanize and lesserize me don’t actually have any physical power anywhere in the world, so I don’t need to fear them.
That’s what the capitalists want. They want us arguing over AI either being a panacea bringing about a magical capitalist utopia, or something that will kill us all unless we allow our ubermensch capitalist leaders to control it completely. All the while the real problem is capitalism and how it turns all good innovations into anti-worker tools.
Honestly it’s what has made me a less frequent visitor in this forum. It’s really tiring seeing so many posts about AI hype, with the only difference from here to Instagram is that it’s Chinese AI hype. Not only aren’t things necessarily good/socialist just because they’re from China, but these are still just profit-seeking corporations being reported on by hype-seeking western news outlets, and people here still fall for it and reproduce it like they’re your credulous AI doomer uncle. I don’t have the time and energy to go digging through the hype for information to argue over random products from a corporations in a country whose language I can’t read.
China is doing good tech work due to high speed rail and circuit lithography techniques, not because some random company made realistic looking humanoid bots that serve only to decorate presentations or luxury sex dolls for extremely rich pervs.
Worse yet is that even here people conflate chatbox LLM “AI” stuff with actually incredibly useful and reliable Data Mining techniques we used to call “IA”.
things [aren’t] necessarily good/socialist just because they’re from China
This. DeepSeek is just as good at spitting out liberal narratives as ChatGPT. I agree that the glazing on here is out of control - I got multiple downvotes and replies (one of which I’m pretty sure was LLM generated) on another thread for defending the use of the term “slop” to refer to chatbot output. It’s honestly making me a little suspicious - apparently one of the mods here is big on AI hype.
Doesn’t Deepseek also distill from Western models? If so, there’s also gonna be Western bias in Chinese models.
Yeah I believe so, it may also be a consequence of any model scraping the English-language internet.
AI if you are speaking in English, sir (Eu também misturo AI falando em português e IA falando em inglês lol).
I think my hate against AI began far before LLMs. When I was finishing my BS degree, the hype in the academia (at least in my uni) was about bio-inspired AI algorithms. So there were the classics PSO, which is inspired in a flying bug swarm and ACO, which is ant-inspired. Then I saw articles about bee-inspired algorithms, my professor was about fish school inspired algorithms, then another of his students made a wolf pack inspired algorithm - and I was like, they are simply gaming the system. Because all studies followed a similar pattern, get a public dataset or a complex mathematical function, use this new algorithm to get the optimal responses, do some crap math to give as proof the algorithm would converge to some points, then do some experiments to benchmark your “novel” algorithm against some existing ones. I thought at that point people were working on those stuff not because they wanted to achieve anything, but because they wanted to game the publication system to get access to more research funds.
And yes, I think LLMs have a far worse stench. Yes, LLMs are a new novel technique that allow us for the first time to generate stuff from simple commands. That said, most practical uses I’ve found for AI was to either make search slightly better because you don’t have to deal with a bunch of sites trying to game (SEO) the search engines, or to generate output (images, code, or other assets) that follow a very specific set of patterns. So even it’s a novel approach, the hype is talking about end of the world and apocalypse, so that its main objective is to just to inflate the current stock prices of AI companies, so they get access to more cash. So it’s another money grab scheme. This time it’s far worse, because investment companies are betting people’s retirement funds, instead of simply getting a larger pie of your country’s research budget.
So it’s a chaotic production anarchy, so commonly found in capitalism. And the calamity I’m waiting to happen is not when AGI comes, but when the AI bubble explodes and people start losing their jobs, their savings and retirement funds when that happens.
AI if you are speaking in English, sir (Eu também misturo AI falando em português e IA falando em inglês lol).
I’m going insane in both languages lol.
Your natural computing anecdote felt very familiar as I noticed pretty much the exact same pattern when I used to do Deep Learning research. It feels like one of those Proof of Work crypto systems where a lot of human labour and energy is wasted on “publishing” bland accuracy-maxxing papers.
My thoughts have always been “I don’t trust a single thing coming from the west, but I will moderately trust stuff from China because I know they intentions for the use of technology is altruistic.” Nothing good will ever come from the west until the festering rot of capitalism is gone.
And it gets old even on here seeing people go crazy over every miniscule bit of AI anything. It’s a tool like anything else. You can use a hammer to build a house or to smash in a skull. What matters is who wields it, cause it’s not going away.
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It’s exhausting cause the problem is and has always been capitalism lmfao
This is true of so many big arguments and disagreements… Everywhere… So many things people hate against and fight about literally just boil down to “the problems isn’t [thing], the problem with [thing] is fucking capitalism.”
Right. Like medically assisted dying, the nuanced discussion goes out the window when the ruling class uses it to maximize harm to literally everybody else.
People need to look beyond the noise generated in US media and examine how it is being utilized in China. They started with open source, discovered how it would actually be used by developers and people, then built the systems. US was, let’s spend billions, force people to use what we create, then drop an IPO to get our investment back.
There are lots of things on both sides of the fighting that are valid and can be true at the same time but people have their minds made up one way or the other and that’s that.
It’s one of those things that is changing the world rapidly so I can understand why it is so divisive. The media bubbles we’re all in definitely contribute to the divisiveness and helps people build walls and insulate against any other information.
It’s a huge problem we face around the world but especially so in the US and capitalist countries. In the US you have a 1 way media blast from TV news/radio/etc which is streamlined and aligned. Then your online bubble will reinforce your position either way, whether you know you’re in one or not.
I just want discussions on it to be more nuanced than “AI nothing but a grift like NFTs” or “AI is going to transcend reality and fly off into space” polarities of extremes. I don’t even mind if people come to the conclusion of seeing it as a net bad, as long as they’re doing proper analysis of what it is in practice.
I maintain that a lot of the angst is due to the lion’s share of the conversation about it (in the west) being decided by the investor class / marketing teams under capitalism and the changes they make in the world, which gives people good reason to dislike it. Like I’m pretty sure there’s been data that people in China tend to have a more positive view of AI than in the west. But as a concept, what commonly gets called AI now (which is mainly gen AI in western conversation about it) is primarily a new form of automation. The singularity stuff is kind of a pipe dream and not needed for automation to reshape the world, which was happening long before AI became the big buzzword. What makes gen AI more distinctive is, in particular, the fundamental design of language models to mimic human conversation as accurately as possible. Which introduces unique questions about the implications of having such a convincing virtual imitation machine that more obviously disembodied forms of automation wouldn’t cause. But underneath it, it is still automation, not an authentic recreation of a person. However, it’s good enough at imitating and following along that some people get taken in by the simulation of it, which can create new problems or worsen existing ones, especially in a culture like the US’s that is already highly immersed in bullshit. On the other hand, some people have found the simulation of it to be helping for processing difficult things in a context that feels safer than what they otherwise have available.
So it’s complicated.
I agree it’s quite complicated and while I think AI art is very questionable I think it’s something that needs to be sorted out. I actually chat with it quite often but I still see it as automated and well, I think AI should be useful in good ways yet even though it’s new I think there really has to be a great public consensus on its use and to prevent it from being used for ill which of course is becoming rapidly self-apparent.
The idealism approaching the subject on all sides is what makes it so exhausting. If people would just stop look at the materialist perspective there wouldn’t be any problem.
Yes, if only because I’ve embarrassed myself discussing it and will continue to do so. First I was pro AI, then I was anti AI, now I’m pro AI again.
On the bright side, a bunch of western tech “workers” like myself are about to be proletarianized af.
by far the most tedious 💽 🐴 i have the misfortune of remembering
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Please stop with these statements. They’re looking very much like fedposting. Please consider this a warning.
This comment gives off loud outspoken male feminist energy, and if you know what I mean by that, you know why it’s bad
It’s okay to resent the West comrade. Just don’t make people uncomfortable, especially when that resentment turns into self hatred aimed at your own kind
To clarify, what makes me uncomfortable is a westerner turning it into self hatred and wanting their own people wiped out. That’s all I meant
i apologize
I accept your apology. I hope you take it to heart and choose self love for your own kind. That’s all I meant
What an utterly revolting statement.
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You really need to learn how to be an ally to the underrepresented/oppressed people of this world without caving to eugenicist/white supremacist framing.
It is the fascists who believe in race science and built-in bigotry; it is our job as materialists to take the world as it is and build from it, not as what we think it is based on rationalized or internalized racism.
Plus, you’ll feel better realizing that you aren’t some doomed “white” person forced to hate yourself due to some misplaced blame rather than what is actually at fault: the systems we’ve had impressed upon us through little fault of our own.
There’s no “white species”. There is white supremacy, which is a system/institution of power from which a conception of white and non-white racial designations are derived and within which “white” is poised as superior and non-white as inferior. But this is not something innate in anyone, it’s a sociological construct with shifting boundaries over time; it has sometimes dramatic material consequences, there’s no denying the violence intrinsic to it, but it is something that has to be maintained through upbringing, media, culture, and violent enforcement for it to stay standing over time. Some ethnicities that we take for granted as belonging to “white” today were not always, such as the Irish, illustrating the way that it shifts rather than having been entirely static from beginning to end.
