- cross-posted to:
- ecology@mander.xyz
- cross-posted to:
- ecology@mander.xyz
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I think the real issue is that the laws for citizens and consumers are enforcing green policy while letting corporations and the wealth elite largely escape consequences.
Force companies to handle EoL for their plastic pollution, for example, instead of forcing that responsibility solely on citizens and infrastructure. Recycling is largely a scam.
Make public transportation so cheap that driving a car in the city is impractical by investing in good infrastructure rather than increasing cost for ownership that largely benefits manufacturers and government.
But mister green chief the green private jets are not going to fly themselves!
Politicians work for oligarchs in the world
Incoming another few decades of debate over what should be done, until everyone cooks alive one summer and the debate is finally over.
What’s up with the quotes on the ‘lies’? 🤨 Is there a doubt they are indeed lies?
It indicates that that is the literal word that Ribera used, i.e. it’s a quote, not a paraphrasing.
There’s a doubt whether they could write it without being prosecuted by the incredibly wealthy people who are lying and the companies they are lying on behalf of.
Do we really have a problem with deniers?
Don’t we actually have an issue with decision paralysis in eu?
“Electric car mandate is ideological madness”
“Biofuel should play a role in the energy transition”
Those are from the prime ministers of the first and third EU country by population. It is better I do not quote opposition parties because starting from “CO2 is good for plants” there is a giant collection of deranged statements on the topic.
Electric car mandates aren’t necessary. Just make them cheaper to buy, and create incentives to build charging infrastructure. They are cheaper to operate anyway, only need to be more convenient.
Mandate forces change in investment from car company and speed up technology development. Euro emissions regulations are mandates. It is silly to undermine the role of those mandates in pushing EU car innovation and stronger protectionism position in the market. Europe automotive sectors was destroyed by corporate greed, and protected by mandates.
The main reasons to not buy an electric vehicle are higher initial costs, range, and charging infrastructure. The first can be tackled by lower or no tax to buy, the last by public investment and good regulation.
Charging stations across the EU should have been standardized, also with regards to payment a decade ago already. Or make it mandatory to build charging ports in parking and garages.
European car makers had decent electric vehicles early on like the BMW i3 and Citroën Zero. Consumers weren’t buying them was the big hurdle.
Of course manufacturers also didn’t want to be their own competitors and didn’t push their electric cars. Lots of inertia and lazyness in the industry.
Tesla was the iPhone to the industry‘s Nokia. BYD is the cheap android smartphone.
Norway had a high number of electric vehicles early on. The rest of Europe failed to copy them.
Europe has dropped the ball in lots of areas for decades. We have lots of smart and highly educated people, even some excellent research. However there’s a failure to execute and turn it into successful businesses.
No, I don’t think it’s decision paralysis. There are two separate issues at play here:
- Do people really think climate change is an issue?
- Who should be responsible for fixing it?
So obviously you have stupid people still thinking it’s all lies and we don’t have to do anything.
The problem is that even people that agree climate change is an issue and we should do something don’t want to be the ones that will have to sacrifice anything to fix it. They will say that we shouldn’t do anything until China becomes 100% green or that the rich should first stop flying in their private jets. EU can’t force China to do anything and doesn’t want to tax rich people out of existence so normal people oppose any policy aimed at limiting emissions. But EU is doing things. They slowly improve energy mix and push green transition. They simply have to move very slowly because if they do too much they will hand over power to populists.
My guess is everyone (politicians and elites) simply hope general public will get desperate, give up and accept they will have to pay the price of the transition. Looking at this summer we’re not that far away from it.
The main problem why people deny climate change is fear of high costs and resistance to change. Many climate policies like C02 tax and similar have lead to higher costs for most people. Other climate change policies invalidate many business models and endanger whole industries. Combustion engine cars don’t just create jobs at manufacturers, but also mechanic shops, gas stations, accessories, etc. Owners are afraid to lose profits and workers are afraid to lose their income. So resisting change makes economic sense for them.
So it’s not why people deny climate change is real, it’s why they oppose plans to stop it. They simply prefer to face the consequences of climate change then the consequences of preventing it. As I said, people don’t want to be the ones forced to sacrifice anything.
I would say the real problem is people trying to appease climate change, which obviously doesn’t work, you can’t negotiate with climate change. These are the people who say climate change is real and then block or weaken any legislation to reduce the impact of climate change. People like the current German government who advocate for gas heating and combustion engines.
Both. The deniers vote in deniers and bad actors who then are another sledgehammer on glass dome of carbon neutrality
But really how many are deniers? There is probably only a couple in the EU parliament even in national parliaments. That’s not a real problem.
it is a real problem tha AfD in germany has climate denial written in their program every year and they are the 2nd strongest party in the bundestag
It’s definitely an issue. And the fossil fuel industry is working hard to sow doubt. And doubt always works in their favour.
IME, the “deniers” are the ones too old to suffer through the consequences. Infighting is the EU’s biggest problem. Always has been
Definitely deniers. They are being influenced by the oligarchy to keep their outdated industries alive. They don’t give a fuck because by the time this world becomes unliveable for the plebs, robots will be doing their bidding why they sit in their air-conditioned homes and shit. Climate deniers and greedy cunts are just useful idiots.
We have both unfortunately
I haven’t met anyone who denies climate change in over a decade.
The problem is that the powerful don’t have enough incentive to do anything about it, and average people aren’t angry enough for some reason.
Good for you, I am fairly certain around 40% of my county either outright deny man-made climate change or believe the EU does not have to change, because China and the USA havn’t changed.
Which country would that be?
I have. They just don’t state it explicitly unless pressed on.
But they don’t really hold a deep belief in that “climate change is a lie”, it’s more like an accessory belief, like “oh they raised gas prices again, their excuse is climate change but they are just trying to rob us”.
The problem is that the powerful don’t have enough incentive to do anything about it
They did proceed to deny the importance of doing something about it. Which is an untruth.
And next, they will tell you that it’s too late to do something about it - another lie.
Go to your nearest church.
My closest church, and truthfully almost all of them here, is catholic… Pope Leo’s position on climate change is fairly clear.
No shit?
Europe heatwave shows they need to buy their grandma a little AC unit.
Noooo! We need that electricity to power AI! And… are we still doing bitcoin?
