I’d say the real issue is why we allow religious exemptions for anything since religions offer no rational evidence for their existence.
A knife is a knife. The laws governing them exist for reasons, hopefully wise ones but not always. Any reason that requires a law is still valid for the religious as much as the non religious. If the law is wise, then exceptions for the religious is unwise. If the law is not wise, it should be removed for everyone, not exempted as a privilege for the few and especially not exclusively for the religious.
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Everyone should be able to carry a knife, they come in handy all of the time.
Sure, people get stabbed with them. And they get hit with bats. And they get slammed with bricks. And they get stomped on curbs. And so on, we don’t live in Nerfland.
And they get shot with guns. And get obliterated with bazookas.
Ok, but why would you?
Kirpan stabbings pale in comparison to other forms of stabbing. It’s just dumb reactionary shit. I’m tired of dumb reactionary shit, can we talk about wealth inequality yet?
Are you real here ? The state does litteral discrimination based on ethnicity and your reaction is like well it s okay cause I dont care about it ??? Litteraly being allowed to carry weapon cause god say I must do it ? And your reaction is being ok with that shit ???
You’re right. The state does literally discriminate based on ethnicity.
The right don’t care about carrying weapons. In fact they love carrying weapons.
Take your selective outrage to someone more gullible. You’re distracting from the epstein class robbing us blind.
So yeah, I’m fine with it. Show me facts that kirpan stabbings are a problem in the uk, they’re not.
So u think x is ok cause y is worse ??? Are u sure about that ?
‘So you think’ is almost always followed by disingenuous arguments, no change here. I like to focus on real, measurable problems, not knee jerk whenever some rich cunt wants to distract me. Why are you so selectively outraged?
Selectively outraged by police actions. Selectively outraged by who is carrying weapons. You should think about why you’re so easy to manipulate. Take it someone more gullible.
Why u dont answer my simple question ? It s outrageous to have an exception regarding permit to carry weapon whatever religion involved. Why you think I should be ok with that ?
Why u dont answer my simple question ?
I told you, this isn’t a serious question asked by a serious person, discussing a serious problem. It’s a distraction from the Epstein class robbing you blind.
You don’t really care about police actions, else your discussion would be very different. You don’t really care about people carrying weapons, else your discussion would be very different. Edit, I said you here, I meant the right at large. In sure you do, you’re very outraged in this moment, it’s been happening for decades, to other people, but you’re outraged right now, in this moment.
It s outrageous to have an exception regarding permit to carry weapon whatever religion involved.
You can be outraged by whatever you want. Well, you can be outraged by whatever the Epstein class wants you to be outraged by. You are, beautifully distracted as they pilfer your pockets. Feeling poorer recently? The rich aren’t, where do you think they got that money?
Why you think I should be ok with that ?
Because it’s literally not a measurable problem. Take it to someone more gullible.
lmao u can claim anything isnt a real concern cause it s not the epstein class ? can i do the same regarding other topics ?
yeah you really think you’re gonna change anybody’s mind here with your reactionary spiel, good luck buddy
The totally reactionary take that nobody should be allow to carry forbidden weapon cause their God said they should ? Dont care if anobody change his mind on that issue they will totally change position if it was another religion but since u cant even justify that position it will justify mine of having no compassion toward yours.
All religion should be gone, fuck religion, fuck it long fuck it hard. So yeah what religion were you talking about having compassion for, good luck with that buddy
So the exception regarding weapon permit should be gone right ??? Why would you defend exception toward a religion if u think they should be gone ???
There are already established workarounds for this.
There are kirpan (the knives) that are very short, intentionally blunted and even difficult to draw on top of all that. Those are a fairly standard option. Even calling it a knife at that point is almost a technicality.
intentionally blunted
Doesn’t this kind of defeat the entire purpose of the kirpan? I know that is mostly ceremonial these days, but my understanding is that Sikhs are still meant to be prepared to use it at any time to fight against an injustice. If the blade is blunted, they can’t do that.
You’re not wrong, but I’ve never met a sikh who wasn’t basically the definition of accommodating.
I’m not big on religion and I find many religious people problematic but Sikh people have been extremely hospitable and accommodating and friendly. I’m sure there are rotten eggs but a religion that is based on actual tolerance and doesn’t want to shut down other people’s beliefs seems to be a pretty good way to get the followers to behave.
Same. I’ve never had anything but pleasant interactions with Sikhs
As a huge fan of hair, all I can say is that if their god makes it a rule not to cut it, that’s a god I can agree with. Long hair for everyone!
Just add it to the list of inconvenient religious prescriptions that get “interpreted” away. I’m not even talking about one religion in specific, it’s how the sociology of religious communities inevitably works.
Even calling it a knife at that point is almost a technicality.
A lot of them are welded shut too.
Im not going to read this fud. Its a non issue. There is no size requirement in the religion nor must it be sharp. Its a non issue knife wise. Its a decoration.
So they shouldn’t be knife ? Why allow them knife if their own fucking religion doesn’t mandate knife ? And since when it s fair to have exception based on religion ?
You don’t. Basically most don’t use one that meets the legal definition of a prohibited knife. If someone is trying to claim religious exception you tell them its a non starter as their religion does not require an actual knife. They are likely the kind of person who you don’t want to have one as they are obviously trying to imply something that is not true (that their religion requires them to carry an actual long and or sharp knife) As for exceptions based on religion I don’t think there should be but in the us they certainly have it (not for knives but for other things. knives again is a non issue as no religion requires and actual sharp knife). This is one of the reasons devout pastafarians insist on wearing a collander on their head for all official id pictures.
Well someone litteraly got killed by one that meet the legal definition of knife.
Also
What does the law say?
Under UK law a person can possess a kirpan for religious, ceremonial, sporting or historical reasons. But, like any bladed article, a kirpan can become an offensive weapon if it is used unlawfully.
The government says it is up to a court to decide if a person has a good reason to carry a knife or a weapon if they are charged with carrying it illegally
So they are litteraly allow to carry one just not to do something stupid with it. I find that an exception like this to be allowed to be extrely revolting, unfair and undemocratic. The fact that a court must decide allow them to claim anything as having a ceremonial utility and it s just ok sir have a good day. That s fucking stupid. But thanks for being the most reasonable one so far. I can t even believe some ppl here try to justify that kind of stuff
that is dumb. the kirpan does not need to meet the legal definition of a knife. there is no reason to allow someone to carry one like that and I don’t know why it would ever be allowed. I mean sure they should be allowed to carry a kirpan but again not a type that is legally a prohibited knife.
yeah kinda crasy that it was allowed in the first place and sad that we had to get one preventable death to even think how this law was ever allowed to exist. they can keep their kirpan all they want if they arent abble to kill somone with it
I mean technically you might still be able to just like you could possibly kill someone with a butter knife but the religion does not require it be sharp and it does not have a size limit.
technically you can without anything. Just let s agree on having an exception that doesnt regard the dangerousness of a waepon cause religion, is bad.
Literally they make knives that are locked esp for this reason, just xenophobia
yeah maybe some nutter is going to insist a full knife is his object but you just tell him no you have to get a decorative one but you are going to have someone doing crap like that for all sorts of reasons not just this one religion.
not just this one religion.
the issue is mb that this one reiligion have a litteral law allowing them to carry weapon ? idk mb just that. If they were locked nobody would have been stab
yeah I don’t know why the law would allow an exception to weapon laws as the thing can be done without meeting the aspects of the illegal item.
“Weapons are part of my religion.”
–Din Djarin, The Mandalorian
Whether you’re allowed to carry a knife or not isn’t worth mentioning. Ultimately the police mishandled the situation and as a result somebody died.
When your stabbed in the heart there’s precious little they can do for you. The police absolutely did mishandle it though. But the mishandling realistically didn’t contribute to the death. Even if they had immediately applied pressure and chest compression. The odds of survival were truly Vanishing. But handcuffing them and leaving them to die was just callous and unnecessary. But that’s how police operate. You have to remember the average person would have hardly been qualified to handle that situation and the police are always less qualified than that.
And for once this person was white. Can’t see Stephen Yelly ranting about black Brits dying under police supervision.
I’m sorry, but banning a knife is about the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard. You could stab someone with a screwdriver. Are y’all going to ban screwdrivers next?
Carrying a knife, other than a folding pocket knife, without ‘good reason’ is already illegal in the UK.
What they’re talking about is removing the exception for the kirpan.
I’ve lived in places with strict self defense laws and lax self defense laws. When I originally lived in the place with lax self defense laws, I thought it must be better if people don’t carry weapons. Then I moved to the place with strict self defense laws…it was worse.
I was subjected to random aggression on a nearly weekly basis. I’d be sitting at a train station with headphones on, minding my own business, when drunk assholes would take it upon themselves to square up and accuse me of anything that came to mind (am I looking at their girl, am I a queer—the irony in that contrast is not lost on me). There were several times that I actually did fear for my life, and all I could do was run away and be late for whatever I was going to. Every time, the biggest ape on the street knew they would win, and they felt entitled to rule their space with an iron fist.
Then I moved back to the place with lax self defense laws and saw it with new eyes. Drivers are more polite because they don’t know who could be armed. Nobody comes up to me in the street and harasses me for no reason. The implication that I could be armed really does seem to make people think twice, and I’ve started to believe that the impulse to check yourself in case you get shot is the only check and balance that aggressive assholes seem to understand.
Now, to the surprise and horror of my younger self, I carry a gun. It took me a while to get used to, but it has given me a new sense of security and calm if any altercation does occur. My girlfriend is disabled and can’t run from a fight—if someone targets her (which has happened multiple times before since she is visibly helpless), I must stand my ground to protect her. Also, it clarifies my thinking to deescalate conflict in those moments because I know I’m comfortably prepared if someone else takes it to a violent level. I don’t need to shout or puff up to create a barrier between her and an aggressive person, I can observe the situation while knowing that my hours of practice put me in a good position to come out on top if somebody wants to fuck around and find out.
It is my sincere hope that I will never shoot at anything other than paper. I do not want to hurt anybody and have never started an altercation with anyone. 99% of the time, retreat is still the best option. That said, I know I have it in me to protect myself and my loved ones if the moment ever required it, and I am comfortable enough with it to not be paralyzed by indecision if that day ever comes.
Needless to say, if I lived in London, I would feel better if I had something other than my fists to protect myself with because my body is not designed to be an effective weapon in the same way that my knife or pistol is. There is a whole lot of time between the start of an altercation and the arrival of police—until they get there, I’m the only responder I can count on.
I lived in London as a fuck ass poor student in Forest Gate, Ilford (technically Essex) and Stockwell (all fairly shabby areas) over about 8 years before later moving to a nicer area (Clapham).
The only people I saw with weapons were the police.
Regardless of how you may feel, the statistics are not in your favour. Just compare gun deaths per capita in the US vs a country like the UK and it’s clear that the US approach to gun control (or lack thereof) is insane.
And not just gun deaths: deaths from all violent causes.
I just replied to another commenter about this same thing. My decision was not motivated by gun death statistics, but rather the odds of my own death or injury (and that of my loved ones) due to the changing circumstances of my neighborhood and prior life experience. I wrote about that in a response to another user in this thread also, and hopefully it sheds some light on why I chose to buy a firearm.
You are correct, the US approach to gun control is insane, but if you live here, these are the conditions that have been set for us so far. Either you bring your fists to a gun fight, or you have a gun. There are more guns than people in this country—the odds are slim that a robber is coming in empty handed. However you choose or don’t choose to prepare for that possibility is a personal decision, and circumstances got bad enough in my neighborhood that I felt it was necessary right now.
If we enter an age of peace and understanding, I’ll happily give up my pistol. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, as they say.
My decision was not motivated by gun death statistics, but rather the odds of my own death or injury (and that of my loved ones)
Right. And make sure to ignore any actual statistics while calculating those odds, right? Just purely based on feels.
Im sorry I live in the us and crazies acting like dicks is not something unusualy if you live in a dense enough region. Im guessing you lived somewhere denser and saw more of that crap compared to when you lived somewhere less so.
I mean, it’s hard to get denser than manhattan, but I personally chalk it up to being poor and bad luck with neighborhoods declining after I move to them.
well yeah that is going to effect stuff to. I lived in a neighborhood at one point where I would make it a point to return home different ways because of the local hoodlums.
minding my own business, when drunk assholes would take it upon themselves to square up and accuse me of anything that came to mind (am I looking at their girl, am I a queer—the irony in that contrast is not lost on me).
This happens in the US too. This isn’t unique to places with strict self defense laws
My story was in the US. I was talking about two different US states.
you gun types are nutters.
Areas with very restrictive personal defense laws in the US like Massachusetts have lower gun death rates per 100k by a huge margin over wide open states like Mississippi. https://publichealth.jhu.edu/center-for-gun-violence-solutions/issues/gun-violence-in-the-united-states
Guns don’t make people safer. Knives don’t make people safer.
Sikh knives don’t really fall into those aforementioned categories though, and i’m not trying to show any support there just because of one person’s actions. If someone wants to kill they are going to find a way.
The overall number of gun deaths was not a factor in my decision, the prevention of my own death and injury of my loved ones was. I responded to another poster in this thread explaining the events that led me to choose to buy a firearm—maybe that will at least explain why I made that decision. I researched calibers and bullet types to make sure that I had the smallest chance of sending a bullet through the wall into the neighbors apartment. I practice on a regular basis to build safe habits into muscle memory. I’ve taken classes to learn from professionals and to be legally compliant. I keep everything locked up or on my body in a safely designed holster 100% of the time.
If you think that makes me a nut, then whatever, man. I’ve tried to be as safe as possible and make responsible decisions based on my life experience and the changing circumstances of the area I live in.
Oof such a flat earther take. Just to note statistics and facts support nothing you’ve claimed.
“This is my lived experience”
“O yeah? I read online somewhere that’s statistically unlikely, checkmate flat earther!” 🤡
It is scientifically accurate to say that someone with self defense equipment is more likely to save themselves during a criminal altercation than someone without self defense equipment. If that wasn’t true, there would be no reason for ladies to carry pepper spray when they go out at night.
I don’t deny science, but using overall gun death statistics is misleading. If a victim has to shoot someone in a self defense situation, it still generates one gun injury that could apply to those statistics.
You can look up hundreds of security cam recordings on YouTube of people who successfully defended themselves. Those people would have been in a worse position if they had not been prepared.
All egomaniacs believe, a “gun” will save “THEM” but the statistics are VERY clear, you’re more likely to kill some else accidentally/on purpose, kill yourself, or get the weapon taken away from you and used on you then ever use it successfully in self defense.
Guns are popular for self defense do to clever marketing, lack of common sense, and steering of american culture.
Got a link to support this data?
https://www.npr.org/2018/04/13/602143823/how-often-do-people-use-guns-in-self-defense
.09% chance to use a gun in self defense. In a study NOT done directly by gun lobby. (those studies show fun facts like twice the number of people claiming they shot someone in self-defense as total gun shots in ERs)
Where the hell do you live that you have so many crazies?
Granted, invoice in Vancouver and here it’s all queer trans cis gay whatever mixed and nobody gives a shit because why would you give a shit about that?
The strict self defense laws were when I lived in Manhattan. After the sun went down, things got crazy on a regular basis. I’m not an aggressive looking dude—skinny hippy type. I never started anything, but in the two years that I lived there, I was rushed head on by meth addicts twice, nearly mugged by a man in a ski mask, stalked in a park, and aggressively confronted by drunks at the subway platform many times.
I can’t explain it. I guess I just look like someone to bully if you are a specific kind of jerk.
I now live in a different state, but the worsening conditions in the country have caused my neighborhood to explode with the homeless and addicted. People have set off the fire alarm three times in the last year and tried to break into apartments when people open the door to evacuate. One of the people robbed was my next door neighbor—that is when I decided to buy a firearm. My apartment has only one exit, so if someone gets through my front door, I am essentially blocked in with no way to retreat.
It wasn’t a decision I made lightly or even desired, but life taught me that I needed to be ready to defend myself.
A religious exception to carry deadly weapons is even dumber.
We have had many sihk stabbings at mosques in Canada. Not rare.
What are sihks doing at a mosque?
Stabbing people, apparently
Maybe we just ought not to freak out about somebody carrying mankind’s oldest tool like a bunch of sissy babies, hmm?
mankind’s oldest tool
If obsidian axes are outlawed, only outlaws will have obsidian axes.
And yet Burnham has said he’ll keep this authoritarian piglet in his cabinet.
If they come for the sgian dhubh, the Scottish independence movement will get a huge boost. Bring it on 😂
Tell that to the stupid USians that preach about their Christian values while being trigger happy any time they meet someone who isn’t white.
what’s your problem?
“U.S all bad. Faith all bad. White all bad. Werz muh upvootz 👍 thx.”
Seems to be a common validation-farming device on threads like these.
Look around mate. It ain’t that hard. Don’t have to look hard neither. Just watch the news.
yeah…that’s not the problem. the problem is that you brought the US up on a post not about the US as if the US was to blame.
are you brain damaged or something?
Boo US. Boo US. US sucks. Boo! Boo! Boo!
