What’s behind the growing backlash towards enormous structures that disrupt the power grid, raise utility rates, use staggering amounts of water, generate noise and air pollution, increase the ambient temperature and overall diminish the quality of life of every person who lives anywhere near one?
Gee… I wonder…
skimming the article, it looks to me like the target audience is people completely out of the loop and don’t see the problem with AI
i know people like this. they don’t have a clue how terrible AI is for everything
i know people like this. they don’t have a clue how terrible AI is for everything
They’re called management.
Yeah, their title is dumb, but they do actually touch on some of that in the article.
The real reason there’s a growing backlash towards AI datacenters is that people are afraid of losing their jobs to AI.
All those things you said are just excuses people are putting forward because “I just don’t want to lose my job” is super backwards argument that makes them look like luddites. Most of those excuses can be entirely debunked or are flimsy at the very best.
The whole water argument is effectively a non-issue at this point, the vast majority of the new data centers are being built without evaporative coolers. Not to mention the fact that global Beef production uses around 200 times more fresh water than Global Data Centers (and that includes all the non-AI datacenters just running the basic internet and companies stuff that exists).
Power Grid and power pricing concerns can be easily addressed through legislation/regulation, which is exactly what’s happening in reasonable jurisdictions like British Columbia in Canada.
The noise thing is… nothing. It’s the same bullshit that got pushed for Wind Turbines. Sub-sonic, infrasonic, transonic… Bullshit. There’s no scientific evidence backing up any of that shit, which is why people are pointing to random studies in non-name journals published by quack citizen-scientists who are promoting their Youtube channels.
They’re also not building the damn things right next to millions of residential homes. They’re in industrial parks, downtown cores, or out in rural areas. Here’s a worst case scenario, Microsoft just built a new one in Vaughan, Ont (6100 Langstaff Rd) across the street from a suburb. It’s a small two story datacenter next to a massive Costco distribution center that has thousands of trucks going in and out. It’s still about 200 meters from the closest home, but across the intersection of two 4 lane highways which make enough noise (and air pollution) that any sort of data center is going to be entirely irrelevant.
Your average person simply sees no significant individual future benefit to having these built that would outweigh such a risk to their existence and value.
people are afraid of losing their jobs to AI.
Nah, it’s more like they’re pissed their bosses will attempt to replace their jobs with AI that can’t actually do their job, and instead shift that work onto the remaining employees. It’s AI-washing to hide cost-cutting.
global Beef production uses around 200 times more fresh water than Global Data Centers
Whataboutism. We’re not the ones using shitty fallacies as arguments. Fuck beef consumption too.
Water cooling can be done in a smaller space with less power, but it requires enormous amount of water. A recent study determined that a single hyper-scaled facility would need 1.5 million liters of water per day to provide cooling and humidification.
AI is typically deployed in 20-30 cabinet clusters at or above 40 KW per cabinet. This represents a fourfold increase in KW/cabinet with the deployment of AI. The difference is staggering.reasonable jurisdictions like British Columbia in Canada
They’re also not building the damn things right next to millions of residential homesHundreds of people marched through Vancouver on Saturday to protest two planned AI data centres in the city, raising concerns about the amount of water and energy such facilities can use as the region faces tighter water restrictions.
The project has the backing of the B.C. government
The City of Vancouver is also throwing its support behind the proposal
The protest comes as Metro Vancouver remains under Stage 2 water restrictions, which bans lawn watering, and prepares for the likely move to Stage 3 restrictions sometime in June.
“I think this is an incredibly inefficient use of land, both in the heart of downtown Vancouver and Mount Pleasant”The noise thing is… nothing.
Jason Haley, who’s lived in his Southaven home for the last two decades, in August started to hear a whirring, mechanical noise from outside that sounded like a leaf blower.
The noise would go on for days at a time and through the night, he told Mississippi Today. He soon realized the sounds were coming from a cluster of natural gas turbines about a half mile away.
Over the summer, billionaire Elon Musk’s artificial intelligence company set up shop in north Mississippi, erecting dozens of turbines on the site of a former power plant to fuel two data centers just up the road in Memphis.I’m going to have to start using a browser extension to label trolls like the reddit days.
I wouldn’t have considered the noise pollution to exceed the scope of a nuisance and disruption to wildlife habitat, but Benn Jordan did a pretty good job demonstrating infrasound’s capacity to impact human health.
Because they are environmental disasters.
There are some very easy to point to massively awful ones that XAi and Meta are building.
They build them in terrible locations, with lots of heat and little water, and then they bolt on diesel engines.
It doesn’t have to be like that. We’ve been building out solar powered data centres for decades, with closed loop cooling, and in sensible locations.
Common sense!
I’m just worried people will overeact and turn off the porn.
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Frankly, it’s a moral panic at this point. Most of the accusations being slung against data centers are ridiculous, but the accusations are scary and so people get frightened. When a bunch of people are frightened together, you have a mob. Mobs self-perpetuate.
Just look at this very thread. Comments can be completely content-free, but as long as they align with “AI bad!” They get the upvotes. Any comments that question that narrative get downvotes. Eventually you end up with an echo chamber. It’s unfortunately quite similar to how nuclear power got crippled for decades.
I think your comparison to nuclear power is very apt: it’s a panic that arises from real world examples of things going terribly wrong. I agree that we should have more nuclear power, and I agree that we should have more datacenters in Canada in general, if nothing else for data sovereignty. But the public resistance is justified, just as it was after the horrors of nuclear contamination became clear: these datacenters, especially AI-compute, are power hungry and don’t generate that many jobs, so it’s an even worse tradeoff than a regular automotive manufacturer coming to town. The public outcry is not useless: we should use it to push the datacenters to plug into our grid responsibly and priced accordingly, collect heat waste for other uses etc
The comments that ‘question the narrative’ get downvoted because they make claims that are opposed by the evidence.
This is very wrong, please stop spreading this misinfo. I’d be happy to see you leave this community, to be honest. This is not the place for your brand of trash dumping.
Data centers consume resources and do work regardless of local load: even if local users make 5+million requests per minute (which average web use patterns suggest will be much, much lower from average users), the bulk of a new data center + peering will be done in service of FAANG, not local users.
So no local profit from data center success except maybe a slightly more reliable streaming service.
But data centers don’t create local jobs, either, so local job market isnt improved either.
Datacentres are not only very often not required to pay for their infrastructure, by they often get massive tax breaks from communities that need the income.
And notice I’m leaving out water, since that is not a drawback on all datacentre types. I’m also leaving out gas-powered turbines some data centers have employed to power themselves, which is adisguating and abhorrent disregard for doing any kind of service to help slow human-induced climate change.
So:
- no local jobs
- profit leaves area
- don’t contribute to the community in taxes
So tell us again why datacentres are “moral panic”?
Alternatively, as I mentioned, feel free to leave this community, and not to return.
It’s ironic that your answer to me calling communities like this an echo chamber is “you should leave.”
You are free to block me if you don’t want to see me saying things you disagree with.
Typical.
Enjoy your brown water.
Comments can be completely content-free, but as long as they align with “AI bad!” They get the upvotes.
Where? The only one I see is “Common sense!” with a grand total of 3 upvotes.
That is indeed a prime example. There are a couple of “because environment” ones too.
Are you expecting everyone to write out a full essay to support their position?
No, but some kind of supporting evidence or argument would be nice. I often include links in my comments when I’m debating a topic.
In this particular case the thread isn’t literally about AI itself, but rather public opinion about it. That makes the “AI bad” comments even more low-effort.
It makes sense for a debate, but most interactions here are just plain conversations.
You’re saying the same thing I’m saying - that these discussion fora don’t have well-substantiated content. Makes it easy for emotional arguments and groupthink to go off in whatever direction and exclude any contradictory viewpoints.
Yeah, were observing the same thing. The only difference is that you seem to be saying that it’s wrong for people to hold casual conversations here.
