Seconds later, a shout rang out: “He’s got a gun!”

Body cam.

  • @testfactor@lemmy.world
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    1842 months ago

    Yeah, I don’t think I’m gonna defend the guy who got shot here. According to the article he was a real piece of work, and it seems like he was a credible threat to the life of the officer he put in the headlock.

    I don’t think the officers did anything wrong in this one. Broken clock twice a day and all that.

    • @tal@lemmy.today
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      2 months ago

      googles

      I mean, I’m not gonna get too worked up either, but just to be clear, California’s bar for use of deadly force is that it has to be to protect against expected severe bodily injury or death.

      https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/penal-code/pen-sect-835a/

      (c)(1) Notwithstanding subdivision (b), a peace officer is justified in using deadly force upon another person only when the officer reasonably believes, based on the totality of the circumstances, that such force is necessary for either of the following reasons:

      (A) To defend against an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury to the officer or to another person.

      (B) To apprehend a fleeing person for any felony that threatened or resulted in death or serious bodily injury, if the officer reasonably believes that the person will cause death or serious bodily injury to another unless immediately apprehended. Where feasible, a peace officer shall, prior to the use of force, make reasonable efforts to identify themselves as a peace officer and to warn that deadly force may be used, unless the officer has objectively reasonable grounds to believe the person is aware of those facts.

      (2) A peace officer shall not use deadly force against a person based on the danger that person poses to themselves, if an objectively reasonable officer would believe the person does not pose an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury to the peace officer or to another person.

      So that’s the bar that a court is gonna expect the male officer to need to meet. I imagine that it’s not impossible that a court could find that that didn’t meet the bar. The article doesn’t say that the guy who got shot actually attempted to pull the weapon.

      That being said, the guy was hiding a weapon and was attempting to overpower an officer, and I imagine that a court is gonna be (not-unreasonably) inclined to give the benefit of the doubt in a situation like that.

      • @frazorth@feddit.uk
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        92 months ago

        Genuine question, how accurate are Tazers? If the partner was in a headlock, was there any risk of tazering the wrong person while the gum was more accurate?

        The real problem here is that Americans just keep arming everyone, so then you have crazies with the guns.

        • @Jank@literature.cafe
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          42 months ago

          Genuine question, how accurate are Tazers? If the partner was in a headlock, was there any risk of tazering the wrong person while the gum was more accurate?

          Speaking independently of the story- Not very by comparison to firearms. Something like 50% less accurate. There’s also the issue that tasers will not always incapacitate someone. That’s a gamble if someone has a weapon and the range to use it.

          Part of the rationale in using a firearm is the need to body someone before they can use a weapon where non lethal methods are just not as effective.

          Of course, when you investigate yourself you will always find that you used your firearm in the appropriate situational context.

          • @Valmond@lemmy.world
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            12 months ago

            A gun isn’t that precise either I guess. So when you are under stress of getting shot you’d pick the gun option instead of a less lethal one because you feel threatened. Who wouldn’t. Guessing wildly here, and as usual everyone having guns isn’t like makeing the place more safe.

            • @Jank@literature.cafe
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              22 months ago

              as usual everyone having guns isn’t like makeing the place more safe.

              If anything it’s more like injecting an unknown number of dangerous wildcards into an already dangerous situation.

          • @frazorth@feddit.uk
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            22 months ago

            You make it sound like I don’t put American cops in the same group as Americans.

            The cops are armed because everyone else is armed. Demilitarisation of the police force can only come in when you can have a sensible conversation about your gun ownership.

            It’s not like owning guns actually protects you from bad cops.

            • littleblue✨
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              -22 months ago

              I prefer to assume any argument is made in good faith until proven otherwise, so please understand that the following criticisms are contextual and not, of course, personal.

              The cops are armed because everyone else is armed

              Bullshit. That implies that vast majority of interactions cops have with “everyone” else (ignoring the obvious hyperbole) while on the clock are with other armed people, which is not only patently false but dangerously presumptive in a grossly negligent way. In fact, the statement is so irrational that any statistic even comparing fatality rates between armed & unarmed individuals by cops would entirely debunk it; cops are not armed “because” others are, they’re armed first and foremost — and have been, since the very concept of a “police force” was first invented, FFS.

              Demilitarisation of the police force can only come in…

              Considering your failure to grasp the predicating concept, I’m hesitant to trust that you got the key in hand here.

              …a sensible conversation about your gun ownership.

              Again, this doesn’t seem to be in your wheelhouse at the moment.

              It’s not like owning guns actually protects you from bad cops.

              Logical fallacy and bait, not to mention an oversimplification of the actual issues at play.

              So, do you want to have an adult conversation or just bark across the pond (where we’ll be touching on various police issues y’all have on your island yonder, to be sure), hmm?

  • frustrated_phagocytosis
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    142 months ago

    What, so the police can put anyone they want in a headlock but we can’t headlock back? /s

    Seriously though, if it’s so threatening to get a cop in a headlock, enough that another cop feels they need to use deadly force to stop it, why are cops allowed to continue restraining someone who fights back against a headlock during an arrest?

    • @otp@sh.itjust.works
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      272 months ago

      Because when a cop is arresting someone, it’s not a mutual agreement to be in a fight. It’s not a friendly spar or anything like that

      • Flying Squid
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        152 months ago

        “You are under arrest, sir!”

        “I disagree, sir!”

        “Marquess of Queensbury rules then?”

        “Agreed!”

    • @obelisk@lemmy.world
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      222 months ago

      In this particular situation, the use of deadly force was more so triggered by the fact that the guy was lying about having a weapon and then tries to pull said weapon during a search of his person. The headlock was not the key factor here.

  • @KevonLooney@lemm.ee
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    82 months ago

    This isn’t even news. “Some dude was arrested” isn’t anything people need to read. It happens all the time. Things like this just make people think the world is a dangerous place.

    While you were reading this comment, some dude was arrested. Do you really care about the specifics?

    • @some_guyOP
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      82 months ago

      Because dude pulled the I don’t have a weapon what’s this my gun and then headlock. That’s an unusual story. I’m anti-cop, but this was new and interesting to me.

    • WorseDoughnut 🍩
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      42 months ago

      The world is a dangerous place though; there’s all these armed psychos driving around, shooting and beating people!

      Sure, sometimes they arrest someone who deserves it, but that doesn’t make me exactly feel safe knowing they’re out there…

      • @KevonLooney@lemm.ee
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        02 months ago

        It isn’t dangerous. The world is much safer than it was even 20 years ago. You are much more likely to be attacked by someone you know than “armed psychos” that you don’t know.

        Look at any crime statistics; they all say the same. Or if you don’t like statistics, just watch Dateline or 20/20. It’s usually the boyfriend/girlfriend.

        • @ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          42 months ago

          The armed psychos they were talking about aren’t counted in the crime statistics, because they never get convicted of crimes. They just get put on administrative leave for a while, and then get brought back when the heat is off. Worst case scenario, they get fired, and move to another town to be an armed psycho there. And that only happens if the armed psycho union doesn’t scream bloody murder about it.