- cross-posted to:
- meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works
- cross-posted to:
- meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works
Community this happened on: LateStageCapitalism@lemmy.world
Mod: likely GodlessCommie, I think that comm only has one mod and they make majority of the posts.
Penalty: removed comment. Text of the comment is on the screenshot. The post it was on: https://lemmy.world/post/50296041
I get that that community is supposed to be dunking on capitalists, but let’s not pretend all the countries MLs glorify are/were actually socialist. When protecting dictators takes priority over anti-capitalism, that’s when we’re truly cooked.
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Considering how dunking on socialists they dont like (Bernie Sanders and DemSocs) is okay, I think this is PTB. They just feel called out and enforce rules based on how they feel.
Bernie isn’t a socialist and DemSocs are socialists in the same way cryptozoologists are veterinarians - if your movement has never once in the history of society every produced socialism, it’s a stretch to call yourself a socialist.
Remind me, what communism did the supposed communists produce during their rule from 1922 to 1991?
The USSR was meant to be state socialism to transition to communism. If that movement never once in the history of its society every produced communism, it’s a stretch to call yourself a communist.
what communism did the supposed communists produce during their rule from 1922 to 1991?
You do realize that, of every single thinker, of every single text, of every single successful revolution, of every single revolutionary movement, not a single one of them has ever said that communism is state of being that we can knowingly and deliberately achieve in our current society, right?
7 successful ML revolutions, not a single one has produced “communism” the way you’re thinking about it.
Engels writing about communism says this:
What is Communism?
Communism is the doctrine of the conditions of the liberation of the proletariat.
That’s what communism is. Not something you produce. Not a recipe you follow. Not a decision you make or a policy you enact. It is a doctrine and it is specifically the doctrine of establishing the conditions that are necessary for the liberation of the proletariat.
What did the communist party achieve in the USSR?
- They produced the most rapid industrialization in the history of the world.
- They were the first modern feudal agrarian society to end nation-wide famines permanently.
- They defeated the Nazis and liberated almost half of Europe.
- They provided housing to all their citizens at a cost of less than 5% of their salaries.
- They became the second-best-fed population in the world, second only to the US.
- They implemented the first legalized abortion framework in the world.
- They established women’s rights to self-determination economically and politically and legally long before anyone else did.
- They went from health indicators that categorized them as “near-medieval” to the world’s first state-funded healthcare system and developed multiple world-first vaccines.
Because you know what the conditions of the liberation of the proletariat are? They start with food, shelter, medicine, and safety from literal Western Nazis and their international liberal backers.
But the USSR failed. Everyone is fully aware that they failed. You think that they failed is some kind of gotcha? You think that failing to survive counter-revolutionary forces and failing to protect the revolution means that there was no communism, there was never any communism, and everyone who claimed to be a communist is a liar? You think the Mets aren’t really a baseball team because they lose? You think a startup isn’t a company if it fails?
Your position is ridiculous, unexamined, ignorant, and internally inconsistent.
Your position is ridiculous, unexamined, ignorant, and internally inconsistent.
Now read your comment that I responded to again.
The position I provided was to mirror your own, to highlight the ridiculousness of it.
Perhaps you confused social democracy with democratic socialism, then you may have had a point.
Yeah, I know that’s what you were doing. It’s a ridiculous position. What you’re saying is that 7 successful ML revolutions that established societies organized around the doctrine of the conditions of the liberation of the proletariat is equivalent to over 100 years of Democratic Socialism literally have never achieved anything other than welfare concessions within capitalist societies and zero change in ruling class power.
There is no mirror. Democratic Socialism has never moved beyond compatibalism and “peaceful coexistence” with the ruling class. MLism has successfully demolished ruling class power 7 times in 60 years. No single political praxis has even come close to it.
Successful?.. Again, where’s the communism?
Demolished ruling class power?.. Demolished the current ruling class perhaps, but only to replace it with another.
“When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the People’s Stick”
Again, completely ahistorical. Despite the USSR’s total abandonment of the communist road and revisionism that led to terrible outcomes for the people, polling in Eastern Europe and Russia still shows that the majority of people believe the dissolution of the USSR was a net negative. Because again, every single communist movement that successfully overthrew the ruling class improved the lives of the people at scales that seemed completely impossible.
Under every single communist country today, the majority of the people support it and want it to continue. Even under the USSR the prison system was smaller than the USA’s and the outcomes were better. This is true in every communist country. Women do better, children to better, education is better, medicine is better, nutrition is better, mental health is better, housing is cheaper, cost of living is cheaper, participatory government is more extensive.
You are doing the thing we’re saying you’re doing, which is spewing anti-communist and capitalist apologetic propaganda and every anemic talking point you’ve raised has been endlessly researched for decades and shown to be distortions put forth by anti-communists.
You and I are not living in the same reality. You have not done the work to learn about the history and present of the global movement for communism. You operate from your indoctrination and from that conclude that everyone who disagrees with you is indoctrinated.
You will continue to engage in these sorts of debates where the only thing you can do is intone “it is known” until you actually start reading about the history that you think you already understand without having studied. You are ignorant and there’s nothing wrong with that. But ignorance is not a political position worthy of respect and equal time.
Rule 6 says it all - if I was a tankie I wouldn’t want people to call me out for it, either.
You can tell “instance shaming” really hits them because they made a separate .world account just to mod and post for that comm.
You make an alt because reports are going to have a problem getting to you if you’re not on the same instance.
I have a .world alt for that reason alone. I wouldn’t assume it to be any more than that.
You broke their rule 3 regardless if you agree.
Rule 3 explicitly says anti-socialism, anti-communism and capitalist apologia. Stating MLs glorify authoritarian dictators isn’t anti-communism because those dictators weren’t communist.
To add to that, the mod action comment did not mention any rules, it just claimed the removed comment was misinformation, which it wasn’t.
Stating MLs glorify authoritarian dictators isn’t anti-communism because those dictators weren’t communist.
This is quite literally anti-communism. Claiming that globally recognized communist movements were not communist is the quintessential definition of anti-communism. The fact that you disagree doesn’t make the mod a power tripping bastard, it makes you in violation of that community’s rules. It’s quite simple.
Agree 100%. I call it “their shit don’t stink” syndrome
Is that you Trotsky?
Is that you Stalin?
It’s interesting that only your comment was removed. My experience with ML has been immediate ban for anything they don’t like. In one case they made up a vague excuse based on an erroneous assumption about me, and another where I was banned simultaneously from over roughly a dozen comms at once – including several I’d never even visited before, and which didn’t appear to have any particular mod in common so I suspect the same “mod” is themselves hiding behind multiple accounts (the banning mod name was hidden, which shouldn’t be possible, IMHO).
I don’t get how they think they are spreading their philosophy if they don’t even try to convert people to their way of thinking. They don’t just support authoritarians, they ARE authoritarian.
They do weird things to the modlog. Rarely can you see which mod banned you, and if the comment you posted was upvoted but the mod didn’t like it they’ll remove it and you won’t find a mention of it in the modlog anymore, making it impossible to see the original comment.
I called Putin’s invasion of Ukraine “russian imperialistic bullshit”, the ml tankies brigaded, as expected, calling it just a border dispute, with one goin all “nuh-uh, you don’t even know what imperialism means!” - to which I replied with Britannica’s meaning. The reaction was moving the goalposts, “no, that’s imperialistic description of the word, it doesn’t count! read lenin!”
What really amazed me is that they didn’t ban me
B&, you forgot to thank Marx at the end of your post.
They also have the practice of removing your comment, but then leaving their reply as the moderator in place, but banning you so you cannot continue the conversation.
That pretty authoritarian.
I don’t like what you said, I will denounce you and send you off to gulag.
ML?
In this context, Marxists-Leninists. They usually stick around their own instances, lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml, but can show up anywhere if they see you not paying enough respect to the Glorious Leader of their choice.
Oooooh makes sense, thanks!
What makes you think that GodlessCommie is the mod responsible? They don’t mod that com. The OP of the post you commented on is a mod though, and makes a lot of posts there. TBH, I don’t get why that community is on .world in the first place. If they’re going to moderate it like an ML com and thought police the comments, just take that shit over to ML already.
The OP of that post and the mod of that community is in fact GodlessCommie’s .world account. You can tell by their username being GodlessCommie@lemmy.world
Interesting. I show no such user on .world I see the OP of the post you linked as K1nsey6, who also shows as a mod. Maybe a difference in federation or how Voyager displays it.
Just to clarify, GodlessCommie is the display name for K1nsey6:
Huh. I have never had any interest in seeing or displaying profile pictures, but I didn’t realize my experience was actually that much different for using Voyager.
Interesting, I’m on Jerboa and it displays as what I described.
Deserved it
Nah, your comment was worth removing because it violated a rule and had zero self awareness as to how reality works
The mod also violates rules but its okay because its not criticizing MLs. The mod is so blatant about it, they even do it in the same comment thread they banned OP in. Multiple times.
Example
:
That’s literally historically accurate. Again, proving that you don’t understand how reality works. Your ignorance is not the mod’s problem.
Its always the same. MLs preaching left unity but actually not following through themselves.
And when called out, somehow its always history something something purges were / are / will be actually correct something something.
MLs preaching left unity but actually not following through themselves.
Again, completely ignorant of history. MLs do not preach left unity. They preach Marxist Unity, and non-Marxist leftists are called out appropriately. It’s been that way for over a century. That you don’t know this is part of your problem.
somehow its always history something something purges were / are / will be actually correct something something
Democratic Socialism has literally never succeeded in the history of humanity, whereas Marxist-Leninism has succeeded 7 times: Russia, Yugoslavia, North Korea, China, Vietnam, Laos, and Cuba. All 7 times the MLs did not preach left unity but rather a unity of Marxists and those with incorrect analyses were excluded.
