𝙲𝚑𝚊𝚒𝚛𝚖𝚊𝚗 𝙼𝚎𝚘𝚠

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Joined 2 years ago
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Cake day: August 16th, 2023

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  • In you analogy, it’s not stickers, it’s faster cars.

    Well that’s the point of contention.

    Would you expect that if faster cars were banned, those owners would drive slower cars equally as fast as faster cars keeping the rate of speeding tickets?

    Actually, yes! They might not go over the speed limit as much, but they’re likely to break it just as often. Just about every car can go over the legal speed limit, these owners don’t care as much about safety to they’re about as likely to break the law in a Lambo than in a BMW or a Renault.

    • This is an extraordinary claim that requires definitive evidence

    I’ve already given you a study that showed no changes before and after a ban. At this point the claim really isn’t so extraordinary, and I expect you to provide some statistic or evidence that a ban does work.

    You can’t just come to a conclusion that “ultimately the owner is responsible” without evidence.

    The owner being responsible is an assertion, not a conclusion. I’ve also already cited studies for you that found that how owners interact with and treat their dog is a very significant predictor when it comes to bite attacks.

    I can respect the need to see statistics, but I don’t really think that if one side present evidence with statistics that are possibly flawed in some way, the correct solution is to call it unbelievable and side with the other side that hasn’t presented any concrete evidence or statistics showing anything definitive.


  • You’re making the logical error that the amount of bites indicates that a breed is dangerous. The claim I (and many others) make is that there’s no such thing as a dangerous breed.

    As an analogy, suppose the government finds that cars with big flame stickers stuck on them get more speeding tickets, or end up in more accidents. Does the sticker make the car go faster? Would you expect the accident rate to go down if the government banned flame stickers? Or would you expect cars with lightning stickers to suddenly cause more trouble?

    Ultimately, the owner is responsible and studies have shown that the owner is by far the strongest indicator of whether or not there will be problems.


  • The point is that there’s not really such a thing as a dangerous breed. There’s dangerous dog owners though, and that’s different. When you ban a breed, most of these owners will switch to a different breed (which inevitably rises in the dog bite statistics). That’s mostly what that study showed, despite the ban on dangerous breeds, there weren’t any fewer bite incidents.

    it seems clear that any reduction in rate of ownership of dangerous breeds should reduce the overall bite rate

    In theory, sure. But this assumes that certain breeds are inherently more dangerous, which is largely unproven. Most larger studies seem to dispute this.

    (Coincidentally, France’s restriction applies to all dangerous breeds

    France’s bite rate isn’t substantially lower than neighbouring countries that don’t have these bans. In practice, it seems these bans do little to nothing to reduce bites, which is an indicator that the breed isn’t the issue.







  • The study measures the totals before and after the ban. If the totals did not change, then one can reasonably conclude there was little to no effect (as that was the point of the ban; reduce bite attacks). The only way you could still justify the ban worked is if dog ownership increased after the ban, which seems unlikely (and iirc the study touches on that).

    One would expect that this sort of statistic would be easy to find if it were true, given the advocacy of bully-breed groups.

    I mean ultimately the burden of proof isn’t on them. There are some statistics that seem to support them. If thess BSL bans worked, one would expect evidence to show that they did, but that’s seemingly completely absent too. The vast majority of independent organisations seem to be against these bans.

    If these bans worked, where are the statistics that show they do? What about the myriad of studies saying bite incidents are caused by neglect of the dog rather than breed?



  • At the time the prevalent belief initially was that the mighty British empire, together with the French, would beat back the Germans and Italians. Remember that these countries had fought a destructive war already which an at the time more powerful German empire lost. US sentiment also was against direct involvement in the war, and many in cabinet were more concerned with the rising threat to their west: Japan.

    That’s not to say the US did nothing. The US supplied China via the Burma road agains the Japanese, supplied the Allies with arms and they also did the destroyers-for-bases deal. The US also held their first peacetime draft in 1940, well before it officially entered the war.

    At the time, the belief was that the US would have to defend the west (against Japan) and that the UK could defeat the Germans. It’s why the US moves the fleet to Hawaii, to hopefully pressure the Japanese into backing down.

    The US had both domestic and geopolitical reasons to not declare war immediately. It’s fair to criticize that, but to characterize the US as doing nothing in that time is just a falsification of history.