A lot of world class dipshits on this very platform think both sides are equal. Getting pretty tired of reading
“Both sides are fascist, one’s just more open about it.”
Stupidest fucking sentiment I’ve ever had the displeasure of reading. Absolute lack of education and critical thinking skills to say shit like that.
The lack of critical thinking skills is when people cannot understand that one side is fascist and the other enables the fascists.
To many leftist, capitalist imperialism is just fascism in disguise, and they are entirely correct.
I don’t think they’re both equal, they’re certainly both shit.
How do you measure the quality of shit?
Let’s just say I wouldn’t let Maxine Waters or Mitch McConnell watch my dog
It’s wild how often both sides gets used to blur real differences.
Real, lasting change isn’t going to happen instantly and with a minimal of effort.
Movements have to be built, leaders have to be cultivated. These things take time. Mistakes will be made. There will be times when you do everything right but still there are setbacks. If you want your working-class peers to represent your ideals in government, you have to support them. You have to be willing to let them learn, you have to help them out financially and strategically. Because otherwise, the vast majority of them can’t compete against billionaires and their favored picks.
Voting alone is not enough in today’s climate. Angrily typing at each other and posting furious videos blaming everybody but ourselves is not enough. You continue to do the same but expect different results – you’re going to be disappointed.
Buh, buh, buh, buh, buh MY candidate didn’t win their primary. Guess what? You’ve got at least 2 more years to build a movement around people who reflect your values and represent you. You can’t snap your fingers and expect the world to revolve around you instantly. Winning takes time, planning, strategy, organizing, money, and so much more. There is no quick fix strategy, and I guarantee you that even if literally every single thing from this moment forward goes exactly right and exactly your way, it’s still going to be the better part of a decade (or longer) before there’s any chance of arriving where you want to be. This isn’t a sprint. It’s not even a marathon. Making progress means you have to keep going.
The discouraging part isn’t that it’s going to take a long time.
The discouraging part is that the majority of people need to be convinced that they should treat others like human beings.
the “media” doesn’t “think” they all just push their current agenda
To be honest what I really want is fully automated luxury gay space communism.
They won’t give us that either.
It isn’t theirs to give. It is ours to take.
That’s fine, we’ll give it to them for free.
Fully luxury automated gay space Communism. That way the abbreviation becomes almost an acronym. FLAGSC, rather than FALGSC
Yes, but you can have my portion of gay
Just save it for later. Forever is a long time.
Ok, I just hope it doesn’t spoil. What is the shelf life of gay?
Indefinite! And on the way, you’ll discover new and amazing types of straight.
Sounds like a plan
Ive been told that its not gay in a 3 way, and with a homey in the middle theres some leeway.
Can you confirm? I dont want to run out of credits.
The two sides are the people and the state/capital, right? … right?
ITT: a lot of people pretending there’s more than one side
both sides are bad. One is just infinitely worse.
People refusing to vote for the lesser of two evils is what got us the worse evil!
People refusing to vote for the lesser of two evils is what got us the worse evil!
What are you even talking about? Biden got elected and enabled the modern-day holocaust lol. There is no “lesser evil”, there are many heads to the same hydra: capitalism.
well fuck me for prioritizing the genocides happening in my own country over the genocides happening on the other side of the planet.
edit: responded to the wrong comment, but the one I meant to respond to was also by you so I’m leaving it.
Uhh yeah Biden bad but things would be less bad if Harris had won, doesn’t make her good, what point are you trying to make
Less bad for you, maybe. Ask the people murdered by the Genocide Joe - Holocaust Harris administration if things would’ve been better for them. Ask the survivors if Harris being elected will bring back their dead family.
The point I’m trying to make is that you are unconsciously a white supremacist (yes, even if you are not white) who is willing to sign your name off to endorse the ethnic-based mass-murder of brown people overseas in order to protect your own privilege and comfort. That’s “lesser evil”. Try fighting all evil instead.
Aside from all that, Harris promised the “most lethal” military in the world - that means one thing, “killing the most people” - so on top of addressing your weak, white supremacist premise, I’m going to have to disagree with your weak liberal conclusion as well.
Thank you for having critical thinking skills and the patience to actually type it out for people who most likely won’t even bother to read it in good faith.
The media is just a billionaire propaganda machine. They have to make both sides sound equally right so both sides keep fighting each other instead of fighting the billionaires causing all the problems.
“Everyone” being… everyone in Europe?
The average American I come across (at least online) very vocally can’t be arsed. I don’t mean in a general sense, I mean even in a left AF space like Lemmy, the average American user will argue up and down why a revolution in the US right now just “isn’t feasible” and “we’re all one paycheck away-” as repeated justification for kowtowing. I guess I get it, after all remember how no one ever revolted in France because they were all one loaf away from starvation?
Oh, wait a minute.
The only ways for us to truly revolt, I think, would be to A. Storm the Capital like the right did, or B. Take over each individual state capital to freeze the government and seize control.
But even then, the military and police could wipe anything out if most are not on our side.
A. Storm the Capital like the right did
What? And then what? They didn’t know what to do either, they took selfies and stole stuff and pissed in drawers or whatever. The country can function juuuust fine without access to the Capitol.
B. Take over each individual state capital to freeze the government and seize control.
Stranger, what kind of fantasyland are you living in? Do you think real life works like Domination in Call of Duty where you win if you hold all the points? Protestors could take the Capitol in Sacramento and most of California wouldn’t even notice.
Our power is in our status as the working class, not in taking over government buildings. Taking over your nearest Starbucks would unironically be more effective at changing the trajectory of the country.
Think less “Capitol” and more “capital”.
True. So what would you suggest? Taking over corporate headquarters and places like Wall Street?
I’m afraid it’s nothing that immediate or glorious (not yet anyway, but really, probably not for my generation… I’m 30. Maybe by the time the current youth are 30 we can have a shot.)
Americans are too disorganized to effectively exercise working class power, and too exploited to effectively organize. So you have to attack that reality from every front, many of which are mundane but essential.
Fighting exploitation primarily entails making things less expensive. The legal system will not save us, nor will electoral politics, though local politics are often worth the time. You can make it less expensive for people to raise children by watching their kids for them. You can make it less expensive for people to eat by growing food for them or cooking for them. You can make your own existence less expensive by buying used goods wherever possible and viable, and generally buying less consumer goods. I’ve had the same laptop for like 13 years, the same sunglasses for 15 years, the same shoes for 5 or 6 years, the same car for 5 or 6 years (with no plans to replace it).
All that money I didn’t need is time I didn’t need to spend working, which in turn frees me up to organize and just fuckin exist a little bit, which makes life more worth living, which makes you more motivated to fight for it. Add a little compassion / empathy to that mix, and it makes you more motivated to fight for other people too.
Then organizing looks different for everyone, but a good place to start is with (especially non-religious) organizations dedicated to feeding or otherwise serving the homeless, or environmental cleanup groups, or if none of that exists, just getting some friends together and doing something to improve where you live. Literally anything to make things better for those around you is how it starts.
You’re skipping ahead, which is fine, we’ve all been there and we all wish we could accelerate things. But if we had the power to take over corporate offices to any level which would cause a real economic impact or actually threaten the safety of shareholders / executives, then they would already fear us too much to be fucking us over the way they are.
No matter the choice, the streets will run red, and lives lost, if such a thing were to happen.
Such a thing SHOULD have happened on Jan 6.
“I wish my fascist government had massacred the other group of stupid working class people”
shitlib take
Sorry princess, it wasnt a peaceful tour, no matter what your semi-sentient olestra stain wannabe-god says.
What? Jan 6thers were violent (if inept) insurrectionists, I just don’t care what they attempted to do to a genocidal capitalist empire built on stolen land.
Rooting for either side makes you a loser.
The democrats had the house, senate, and presidency for 4+ years. Where is that Healthcare?
Spoiler: Both sides are bad, they both get paid off. Its just that one side is really fucking honest with you right now … to the point where they commit crimes in public because no one will do anything about it.
ROFLOL yeah it’s the Democrats fault we don’t have national healthcare. tHeY hAd foUR YeaRS WherE is It?? Smeared all over the soles of the Republicans shoes. That’s where it is.
Both sides are bad
Cool observation. Here’s a smiley face sticker and a lollipop.
Here’s another observation.
Both sides are NOT the same.
So, in a system where you WILL get one or the other for the foreseeable future, what would you consider to be the intelligent thing to do?
Also, you are wrong. Democrats haven’t held a trifecta for 4+ years since the 1960s. In recent memory their control has only lasted 2-3 years at a time, and you’ve also failed to take into account that many things require a supermajority in Congress to enact and Dem’s total control has typically been by a very thin margin.
Key Periods of Unified Democratic Control (White House + Senate + House):
2021–2023 (117th Congress): President Joe Biden, with narrow House and Senate majorities.
2009–2011 (111th Congress): President Barack Obama, passing the Affordable Care Act.
1993–1995 (103rd Congress): President Bill Clinton’s first two years.
1961–1969 (87th–90th Congresses): Presidents John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson.
1933–1947 (73rd–79th Congresses): President Franklin D. Roosevelt and the start of Truman’s term.
Where is that Healthcare?
When I was young and broke Obama, during one of those windows of control, gave me affordable healthcare when I had none and he had to fight tooth and nail with Republicans to get it.
You really need to do your homework before you post things on the internet that other people who don’t do their homework will just accept as fact. It really doesn’t help our situation.
They’re not the other side that this post is talking about.
This argument is either based on ignorance or bad faith.
https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/news/2012/09/09/when-obama-had-total-control/985146007/
“Did President Obama have “total control” of Congress? Yes, for 4 entire months. And it was during that very small time window that Obamacare was passed in the Senate with 60 all-Democratic votes.”
The healthcare bill written by Republican Mitt Romney that didn’t have universal healthcare and ended up being a handout to health insurance companies? That bill?
Were you not following the back and forth fight that went on back then for him to try to get anything through? Yeah it’s shit but it’s a lot better than the nothing there was. It was progress and if this country had actual adults in it instead of a bunch of emotional children and corrupt politicians then things could continue to progress.
corrupt politicians
Like the dems.
if this country had actual adults in it instead of a bunch of emotional children
Blaming the voters. The endpoint of every democratic argument.
Like the dems.
Yeah, cuz both sides are equally corrupt.
Two questions.
-
Are you aware that reality is all sorts of imperfect and there will ALWAYS be corruption in political parties?
-
Are you aware that for the foreseeable future, and most likely for the remainder of your life, you will have Dems or Repubs in control?
So with those in mind, what good do you think it does to whine about a party having corruption when all parties will always have corruption and it’s our duty to make the best decision within that reality? Such as making sure the WAY, WAY, WAY less corrupt party is in control and not the WAY, WAY, WAY more corrupt party.
Blaming the voters.
Why wouldn’t they be to blame? How do you think the president and members of Congress got there? We live in a nation that willingly elected a convicted felon and adjudicated rapist who ran a fraudulent university and charity and already had one massively failed presidency under his belt. Not to mention the open bigotry and obviously low IQ.
This IS a country full of child-like adults, and our government is a testament to that. Of course voters are to blame. We made this happen.
-
Voters and non voters alike are ultimately responsible for the political makeup of the country, yeah.
I like how you make the most basic truthful statement possible and people still downvote you.
Not a great sign for the future.
The person you are responding to was probably still breast feeding during Obama’s presidency. So they’re likely completely unaware that before Obamacare millions of people just didn’t have healthcare and that Obama had to fight like hell with Republicans just to get it done.
Millions of people still don’t have healthcare under the ACA.
The ACA was based on a healthcare bill by Mitt Romney.
You’re literally using a republican bill passed by democrats as evidence for the parties not being the same.
You are responding to someone who doesn’t do his homework and who is being upvoted by other people who do not do their homework.
You literally said dems havent had the House, Senate, and presidency … then posted the Biden era where he had the house, senate, and pres. You are acting and posting like AI.
Dont argue with me. Go argue with history …
117th Congress (2021–2023): Democrats gained control of the Senate (via Georgia runoffs) and held the House, paired with President Biden’s election. The 4-Year Period: This 4-year stretch saw shifting majorities in the Senate, but the Democratic caucus maintained a working majority to control the legislative agenda from 2021-2023, while holding the House from 2019-2023, marking a four-year tenure of overall legislative
You said they had the house, senate, AND presidency for 4+ years. The house yes, presidency yes, senate no. Nothing becomes law without the senate. Your claim was not accurate.
Argue with Google. Not me. Biden had the house and senate.
You sound like AI.
Do you remember Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema? Remember how they kind of held up everything?
The “both sides” crew somehow thinks the side that supports unions and civil rights and voting rights and due process and raising the minimum wage and not constantly starting wars is equal to the side that wants the opposite of all of that, and the tankies here think liberals are much worse, because tankies are just closet fascists that think yellow looks better on a red background than black and white.
The side that “supports unions” has resulted in unions falling from 40 to 10% of the workforce since the 1970s (and most of those left are government)
The side that supports “raising minimum wage” refuses to raise minimum wage for almost 20 years… and the last wage increase was abominable.
The side against “constantly starting wars” constantly starts wars.
The side that supports civil rights is just fine with The Patriot Act, which they voted to pass and continue to use and expand.
It’s like you don’t even read what you write, it’s programmed and automatic.
And that’s the problem.
Don’t forget Joe Biden also overriding the ability of railway workers to strike, and Gavin Newsom vetoing unemployment pay for striking workers.
Anyone who thinks Democrats are “pro worker” is huffing their own fart gas.
Honestly, I thought the added “difficulty” of using Lemmy would keep idiots like that off this platform, but apparently not. Or foreign agents/bots are infiltrating Lemmy. Probably a combination of both.
If you look at both sides and think “same”, you need to acknowledge you are not an intelligent or informed individual and you need to work on your education.
They’re obviously not the same…
However, they are both anti-union and pro-corporate
So foolish to think this way.
The longer we sit here and make it about the “other” is another day/year/decade that these people play us and stay in power.
“other” … “these people”
The internal contradiction is strong here.
…
Actually, the other side mostly wants things to stay the same. Their constituents, on the other hand, would like to see better healthcare, education, unions, and stronger safety nets. But since the other side aren’t fascists, their voters are stuck with them.
This right here ☝️. The grassroots democrats I could support. It’s the Chuck Schumers and John Fettermans that will undermine the party from within that make supporting democrats difficult.
There’s always a rotating villain.
Used to be Dianne Feinstein. Then it was Joe Manchin. Then it was that Sinema bitch. Now it’s Fetterman and Schumer.
And people just kind of ignore the pattern and pretend it isn’t a party-wide PR strategy.
Then primary them.
The odds of us getting out of this with a revolution are vanishingly small.
The answer is going to be reforming the Democrat party by primarying the Schumers and the Fettermans out.
Party reformation has happened multiple times in American history and conservatives literally just did it in the worst way possible to the Republican party over the last decade or two.
Party reformation takes time. That is life.
Right, but in the mean time it makes any attempt to claim “The Democrats stand for [insert policy position]” a lie, because while an individual democrat may believe in those things, the part as a whole can’t agree on anything at all. They can’t even align themselves on their own platform, let alone apply pressure to the Republicans. At best they’re nothing but a speed break for more republican policy. You’re still getting republican policy, just slower, and they can’t move the needle in the other direction even if they win because they’ll simply surrender in advance.
Wasting more time and more money trying to slow the rate the US collapses into a burning train wreck is an exercise in futility. The only real solution is to try and build a “coalition of the willing” to preserve what is left and the Republicans drive the rest, screaming incoherently, off the cliff they’re headed for. Small scale organizing, networks to help move people to safety “underground railroad” style, to move material and finances in ways that circumvent federal control, create safe-havens that can resist federal encroachment and operate outside of federal regulation meant to break down resistance. Register some “Churches” that can provide physical plant and meeting grounds, as well as offer support services when federal support is ripped up. Build a nation within a nation.
Voting for Democrats isn’t going to stop this spiral. They have no vision, no will, no unity, and zero political capital to actually create change. Sure, vote blue to slow the bleeding, if you’re still allowed by next election, but as long as they’re a party so big tent they have no direction at all, they’re just a slower, more painful collapse.
Why haven’t the democrats kicked out Fetterman?
Because he was elected and is still serving his term?
And it doesn’t appear that he’s the type of person to resign.
Do the 21 people who have upvoted you thus far not understand how our government works?
Rotating villain. He allows them to tell their constituents “we want what you want, we just don’t have the power because of thay one guy, but if you vote just a little harder, we won’t pull the football away this time”, while telling their donors “we ain’t giving them shit lmao”.
remember that one time the villain was ‘the parliamentarian’? apparently that guy exists and is suddenly important when the democrats run out of reasons to blame republicans
He was elected in 2022, so his next election is in 2028.
Senators are elected for 6 years. House Representatives have election every 2 years.
Didn’t stop the democrats from giving the boot to Al Franken halfway into his term.
Al Franken resigned, champ.
People have to have a conscience to be shamed into resigning.
How would that work, exactly?
PA senators are not subject to recalls, so it’s out of the hands of the voters. He could technically be impeached and removed from office by the Senate itself… but for what, exactly? It’s not illegal to vote a certain way, even if it’s against the wishes of your constituency.
And even if Fetterman were somehow removed, PA is an extremely competitive state. Remember, he won against Doctor fucking Oz, so the chance of someone even worse coming in to replace him is quite high. The devil you know, etc etc…
Best case scenario is that he gets primaried into irrelevance in 2028 by someone with actual integrity. But even then, I’m not holding my breath…
How would that work, exactly?
You pull all of his committee assignments and neuter his value to lobbyists. If all he has is his vote on the legislation that hits the floor, he can’t do much and it will hurt him both financially and politically, because if you don’t have value to lobbyists they won’t send you “gifts”.
You attack him personally and threaten his business or personal connections. For example, if Dems wanted to pull Manchin in line, for example, they could have sent the DoJ after his daughter for price gouging consumers on pharmaceuticals.
And yes, while it doesn’t matter now, you make sure he knows he’ll be primaried out and smeared like yesterday’s dog shit. Character assassination is effective and could bring someone in line, especially when they’re enthusiastically supporting genocide and Israel’s popularity is in the shitter.
That’s how.
They’ve never been powerless. They’re just complicit.
Exactly.
Look at how Donald has dealt with people who get out of line. Democrats aren’t powerless. The villain’s part of their party strategy.
