- cross-posted to:
- world@quokk.au
- china@sopuli.xyz
- cross-posted to:
- world@quokk.au
- china@sopuli.xyz
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.sdf.org/post/48071860
A new report by Genocide Watch, a rights group, concludes that the Chinese Communist Party’s policies against Uyghur Muslims meet multiple advanced stages of genocide under international law.
The report finds that the Chinese government’s actions in Chinese-occupied East Turkistan aka the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region span Stages 3, 8, 9, and 10 of genocide. These include systematic discrimination, mass persecution through detention and torture, exterminatory acts such as mass rape and the removal of Uyghur children, and ongoing denial by Chinese authorities and their international defenders.
Genocide Watch documents the use of mass detention camps, forced political indoctrination, bans on the Uyghur language, widespread destruction of mosques, forced labor programs, coercive population control policies, and the separation of Uyghur children from their families into Mandarin-only institutions. The report warns that these acts constitute both genocide and crimes against humanity under the Genocide Convention.
“This report removes any remaining ambiguity,” said Arslan Hidayat, Team Lead of the Save Uyghur Campaign. “Genocide Watch is clear that what is happening to Uyghurs is not cultural policy or counterterrorism. It is a coordinated campaign that has reached the extermination and denial stages of genocide. Governments that continue business as usual with Beijing are choosing complicity over accountability.”
[…]
“These recommendations are not radical. They are the minimum legal and moral obligations of states that claim to uphold human rights,” said Imam Abdul Malik Mujahid, President of Justice For All. “The stages of genocide identified in this report are a warning to the world. History will judge whether governments acted when the evidence was undeniable or looked away while an entire people were erased.”
[…]
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And once again, the UN is proven to be incapable of doing fuck-all except for pointing out the obvious and tsk tsking those responsible.
.ml losers are gonna love this.
Genocide Watch documents the use of mass detention camps, forced political indoctrination, bans on the Uyghur language, widespread destruction of mosques, forced labor programs, coercive population control policies, and the separation of Uyghur children from their families into Mandarin-only institutions.
As if anyone who isn’t living under the CCPs terror or isn’t a white monkey didn’t know that already.
“This report removes any remaining ambiguity”
Yep, it’s genocide AND crimes against humanity.
Well, obviously genocide isn’t a war crime. /s
Lmao, OP, I am once again asking you to drop evidence of a Uyghur grnocide that does not immediately recycle Radio Free Asia or Adrien Zenz talking points.
If you actually read this “new” report, youll find there is very little new content - aside from whatever new pieces RFA has put out this year.
At this point, you can look at the sources for this “new” article and notice it leans HEAVILY on another report from Rian Thum
And what happens if we look at this reports references?
Just more circular references to Zenz.
(This one is especially funny, because in the intro, they talk all high and mighty about how their ONLY sources are primary Chinese documents from the state, or leaks from the state. And in the footnote, they basically say “yeah we cant read this, so see what our buddy Zenz had to say about it” despite the fact that that Zenz doesnt speak Chinese. The same Zenz who says Hitler had good ideas on population control, by the way)
This OP is draped in congressional language, and its got the length to boot… But this is not a new report. This is not even an investigation. This is essentially the US government dropping a summary of all of their new RFA pieces that have dropped this year. I encourage anyone lookin at these reports to be critical of RFA and Zenz. Having an ounce of skepticism will immediately reveal that the vast majority of the times, these China hit pieces on Uyghurs are just circular references of Zenz and RFA.
I don’t know where you’re getting those screenshots from? Here is the ‘report’ - https://www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/genocide-emergency-xinjiang-china-2025. It has completely different content than your screenshots and is just a single page, not hundreds like what you have.
Is https://www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/genocide-emergency-xinjiang-china-2025 just a press release and not the full report? It seems super short and mostly just a collation of links.
The biggest problem here is that the west can’t say shit, as China is too important and we have even more genocide by our hands 🤷♂️
mostly china suppresses news out of how serious it is, we know its happening. its like voyager episode in trek, where the TRABE were enslaving the kazon, and no other race was willing to question them, because of extensive trading opportunities.
I disagree… beyond just saying shit, the actual biggest problem is that no one (west, east, whatever) can do shit because that would basically require direct military intervention… which would probably have a much higher human cost.
At what point is the cost of negligence too high? At what point is it ethically valid to commit the lives of troops from your country to change the behavior of a government of another country within its own borders?
Historically, the answer is never. No country will commit its own military in this way without an initial military provocation, except when using the human rights abuses as a pretext for territorial acquisition.
It’s still important to talk about the truth of these atrocities, to not let their perpetrators pretend they’re not happening. But… the reality of this will not change without regime change in the PRC.
no one (west, east, whatever) can do shit because that would basically require direct military intervention… which would probably have a much higher human cost.
And as things are right now, we’re way too dependent on China as a tech manufacturer. Long term, I believe we can get our balls out of their death grip, and then sanction them properly. If there are still any Uyghurs left by then…
Long term, I believe we can get our balls out of their death grip, and then sanction them properly.
I doubt it. The situation is not just a death grip… China is the second largest economy in the world. In order to effectively sanction another nation you have to be in a position of economic superiority, such that you can affect the trading decisions of other nations. Even if western nations could extricate their manufacturing needs from China, they would still be dependent on raw materials trade. There just isn’t a way to cut trading ties with China, short of a broad collapse of international trade… and then, well, a lot of people die.
If there are still any Uyghurs left by then…
This is the part that feels so wrong. Choosing to not do anything about this terrible thing that we know is happening seems self-interested. I feel that at some point in the future the descendants of the Uyghurs will look at the world and ask, “Why didn’t you do anything to help us?”, and what could be our answer then?
But… doing something in practice would mean so many deaths, and so much suffering before the conflict was resolved, and more suffering after while trying to pick up the pieces.
Even if western nations could extricate their manufacturing needs from China, they would still be dependent on raw materials trade.
Some time ago there was a similar discussion in another thread, I did a brief research back then and post this with little edits as it fits here, too.
Western nations have already begun to diversify away from China, in their supply chains as well as in in raw materials. I admit that no Western country has arrived where it may want to be in its ‘de-risking’, but we must also look at China’s dependencies.
To name an example, China depends on imports for its supply of zirconium, a little-known critical mineral. Australia is the world’s largest producer and supplies China with 41 per cent of its imports, as China has already admitted.
The West also accounts for a high share of China’s imports of other important goods, such as some foodstuffs, certain raw materials, and other products. If we look at China’s import/export ratios, we see it is 65:1 for ores, slag, and ash, and with an import share of almost 50 per cent the West holds a high leverage in this sector.
Chinese import/export ratios for mineral fuels is 8:1 (although the Western share is below 20 per cent here as the majority comes form emerging economies), but for grain it is 21:1, for meat it is 36:1. (I hope that the West will never use food as some sort of ‘trade weapon’ - as China has been doing - but I am not sure.) There are may similar examples in the industry.
China is almost unilaterally dependent on ‘aircraft and spacecraft machinery and parts thereof’, an important product group. Although the import/export ratio is quite low (2:1), the western share of Chinese imports is some 97 percent, according to the German Economic Institute (opens pdf – German source). This category displays China’s highest import dependency on the West, and there is practically no substitution by alternative trading partners, and in China there is only a small degree of substitutability possible through an expansion of domestic production.
[If interested, EU-China and other trade data with relevant links can be found here.
Also, Europe is an attractive market as China’s EU export are rising - making a decisive contribution to the Chinese GDP.
So I don’t say that the EU or the West doesn’t depend on China, but I say that China depends also on the West if we look at the data of highly complex global supply chains. It’s certainly not a straightforward one-way dependency as conventional reporting (influenced by China?) make it seem in my opinion.
Okay, serious question because I’m fairly knowledgeable about political science/philosophy but completely ignorant re military and covert operations: is this a situation where underhanded tactics like assassination of local political figures, etc. would be useful, or is that just ignorant Hollywood nonsense?
Uyghurs in China are being rounded up and forced into labor camps
I think this set of photos of one of the camps in Xinjiang is particularly illustrative:
This isn’t some short-term persecution for the sake of political influence, it’s not the whim of a few local officials, and it’s not just basic racism. This is a systemic problem, not just with the government but with Chinese culture broadly. Uyghurs are seen as inferior, and therefore it is acceptable to use them as labor or worse. What’s being done to these people is akin to the African slave trade of the 1800s, it’s just being done mostly within China’s borders. It is exploitation at an industrial scale plotted by the highest levels of political power and executed ruthlessly.
To change this would require forcing large portions of the Chinese population to see the Uyghurs as equals, as fellow humans with a right to self-determination, and then act on that conviction to change the government.
With China being a nuclear country, military intervention is out of the question. If we omit the question how strong China actually is. So the only option left is political and economical pressure and sanctions. Which will never happen. Also, as said, west doesn’t have a problem with genocide, perhaps it’s useful when our “enemies” commit it, so we have a leverage, no matter how weak it is.
With China being a nuclear country, military intervention is out of the question.
Yeah, pretty much. Even a non-nuclear conflict at any level that would affect regime change would be devastating.
So the only option left is political
Even if the entirety of the UN got together and unanimously condemned the PRC for the treatment of Uyghurs, I doubt they would care. China is about as likely to change domestic policy based on external political pressure as they are to collectively tap-dance to the moon.
and economical pressure and sanctions.
Effective economic pressure requires a position of economic superiority. China is the second largest economy in the world, which means they are inextricably intertwined with the largest economy (the US) and so nobody has that position.
Even if the entirety of the UN got together and unanimously condemned the PRC for the treatment of Uyghurs, I doubt they would care.
That ship sailed three years ago. Previously:
https://twitter.com/un_hrc/status/1578003299827171330
#HRC51 | Draft resolution A/HRC/51/L.6 on holding a debate on the situation of human rights in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of #China, was REJECTED.
Too bad China had a habit of cracking down on journalists it doesn’t like. Imagine if the west could send someone in there to prove you right
Bullshit. You can go to Xinjiang and see for yourself, as millions do each year.
“What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy”. From Michael Parenti’s Blackshirts & Reds:
In the United States, for over a hundred years, the ruling interests tirelessly propagated anticommunism among the populace, until it became more like a religious orthodoxy than a political analysis. During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime’s atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn’t go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them.
If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.
Cool, looks like you can use copy and paste, but don’t really say anything about journalists. Which on the topic.
Nice of you to assume i can afford a ticket to East Kazakhstan to verify ML bullshit, but I can’t. Instead I need to trust media organisations and the international community. Can’t really trust Chinese state media as they arrested Cheng Lei and Yeng Hengjun and sentenced them behind a closed trial. They also tried to arrest Bill Birtles and Mike Smith for espionage.
https://youtu.be/t-axd1Ht_J8 Discussing China’s set up of a prison network in East Kazakhstan
Not that I think any of these will really dissuade YOU, but others who read this will know you are full of it
Nice of you to assume i can afford a ticket to East Kazakhstan
Whether you can afford it or not, you’d be going to the wrong place. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Kazakhstan_Region
Discussing China’s set up of a prison network in East Kazakhstan
If Kazakhstan has prisons then talk to Kazakhstan. Anyway, both Kazakhstan and China have prisons because every country has them, some more than others. China has roughly the same number of prisoners per capita as Australia, and Kazakhstan has slightly more.
Not that I think any of these will really dissuade YOU, but others who read this will know you are full of it
Except for the ones who don’t think I’m full of it, and also the ones who know I’m not full of it.
Oh, what about the west
Enlighten us, on what grounds can west protest the genocide in China?
You are sick in the head if you think you need moral grounds to protest ethnic cleansing.
I really see a beautiful protest with “yeah, we can and we are doing it, but you bad”. China will merely say what about you? And then?
deleted by creator
see link to “forced labor” proof
it’s just a factory shutting down
Also the article intentionally conflates accusations to make it seem scary. Typical China hateboner behavior.
it’s just a factory shutting down
They linked it because of the reason Volkswagen was selling the factory.
You either didn’t read the article (I get it, it’s paywalled) or you’re intentionally misrepresenting the link.
Either one makes your argument look bad.
Transcript of the article
Volkswagen VOW3 -0.38% has sold a car plant in China’s Xinjiang region that has drawn scrutiny over alleged human-rights abuses.
The Urumqi site, which is owned by a joint venture between VW and local partner SAIC Motor 600104 -0.32%, has been a source of controversy in recent years because of China’s alleged persecution of Uyghur minorities in the Xinjiang region.
The German company’s presence in Xinjiang has long attracted attention in the West. Under pressure from investors and the German and U.S. governments, VW conducted an audit of the Urumqi plant, which it said last year found no evidence of human-rights abuses.
(…) After the pandemic hit, however, operations at the plant started to wind down and the factory no longer assembles vehicles.
The “proof” is “attracted attention in the West” and “under pressure from investors” - and then it found no such proof in the factory.
Why the wind down? Mentioned in the linked article from the year before:
His visit also highlighted Volkswagen’s other problem with the plant: It has fallen short of big plans the company and its joint-venture partner, the Shanghai government-owned SAIC Motor Corp., initially had for it.
“The business model has changed. There is currently no production of our own,” Mr. Brandstätter said this week after the first visit in nearly two years by a Volkswagen senior executive to the site. Chip-supply issues, as well as China’s Covid-19 curbs, contributed to the joint venture downsizing its workforce by almost two-thirds in recent years.
That time Brandstätter also said he saw nothing. Now, I’m not inclined to believe what some capitalist corpo guy says about working conditions, but this whole thing is obviously political pressure, because Germany does not want their big manufacturing corpos so deeply involved in China, as it draws capital and jobs away from the country, the whole Uyghur angle is used as a reason to build pressure.
The report asserts: “Global scrutiny of supply chains linked to Xinjiangfactories resulted in Volkswagen’s exit from Urumqi”, which is not true or if so only in the sense that the pressure resulted in the closure, but not actual abuses.
This is also clear, when you check other linked articles, for example under “a source of criticism in Germany”, which is a union leader lamenting about exactly that and also using the same age old allegations as an argument that are used every time, although economic interests are the real reason he opened his mouth in the first place.
Later in the report even notorious discredited one-man-source Adrian Zenz, ideologue and religious extremist himself is being used as source for their judgement. It’s a sham. It’s political propaganda.
This whole little one-page “report” does not bring anything new to the table. They made up some criteria and released a report towards the end of the year, so the myth is being kept alive and accounts like Hotznplotzn, that do literally nothing else other then posting Anti-China and Anti-Russia propaganda, can rile you up and manufacture consent against them.
Stop being so gullible. There is no new proof for anything. It’s a rehash to gain attention. OP is right.
You either didn’t read the article (I get it, it’s paywalled) or you’re intentionally misrepresenting the link.
They’re from .ML, what do you think it is?
Yep, it’s dogma over there that either it isn’t happening or the victims deserve it. ML or related governments are incapable of doing wrong or horrific things. To them that is something only the West can do.
.ml
china hateboner
always fun to see the stereotype confirmed
Why is the factory shutting down?
Because it didn‘t perform as envisioned. It‘s an economic decision and got nothing to do with Uyghurs. You can read that in the WSJ sources the report itself relies on.
