As Torvalds pointed out in 2019, is that while some major hardware vendors do sell Linux PCs – Dell, for example, with Ubuntu – none of them make it easy. There are also great specialist Linux PC vendors, such as System76, Germany’s TUXEDO Computers, and the UK-based Star Labs, but they tend to market to people who are already into Linux, not disgruntled Windows users. No, one big reason why Linux hasn’t taken off is that there are no major PC OEMs strongly backing it. To Torvalds, Chromebooks “are the path toward the desktop.”
To Torvalds, Chromebooks “are the path toward the desktop.”
Please don’t associate Linux with a close-source proprietary neutered web browser owned by an ad company.
Exactly. I wouldn’t touch a chromebook with a barge pole. Who wants Google to watch absolutely everything you do?
Nothing is needed for me, I already replaced Windows. It’s been a while actually.
I’m a Windows User (Hello, there are dozens of us)
My laptop is Kubuntu (KDE+Ubuntu)
My college laptop was Linux Mint
My main PC is Win-10 LTSE.
Why: I need exceptional anti-cheat support because I play competitive online PvP shooter games religiously, and Virtual Desktop (VR Streaming Application) doesn’t run under Linux.
Should I think about not doing that and install Bazzite instead?
Well there’s the problem, huh?
I need exceptional anti-cheat support
Say what it really is: a root-kit to hand your entire system over to a corporation. That is a line I wouldn’t be willing to cross.
So yeah, the best scenario for you is a dedicated, nothing personal on it, non service connected windows machine for gaming. At least until they quit rooting your computer simply to play a game.
That’s pretty much what I’ve got yeah… Win-10 LTSE ran through
WarHawk-DeBloatand only Steam installedIt might make sense for me to dual boot *Nix then at some point; last time I did was in the XP Era, and GRUB worked flawlessly
Thanks for the tip about war hawk debloat. I am about to help a friend go back to win 10 via LTSE and I can use that information!
Here you go friend!:
Like mentioned in the article, another issue is that there are very few offerings of computers with Linux preinstalled in normal computer stores.
You know how a normal average persons buys new laptops? They go to such store and look at the prices and buy one according to how much they want to spend. The advanced buyers might consult their more tech-savvy acquaintances. Stuff like “Just install Linux”, is beyond concept comprehension for a lot of people, even if they heard about Linux at all.
All to say is that it’s not like they can’t understand these concepts if you explain them (people are clever), but they should care about them in the first place.
Edit: typo
Agreed. We are in an age where tech is spoonfed to people with slick UIs and automated installs. Linux needs that–some kind of easy onramp to get people comfortable and familiar with it–in order to have a chance of getting broad acceptance. It’s not particularly accessible even for people with a small amount of tech knowledge and skill.
I tried to set up mint on an old laptop recently and immediately hit a roadblock before I could even get an install going. I did some research and found some options to troubleshoot it but gave up because the guidance I found online was a bit more complex than I felt comfortable acting on.
I really want to try out Linux, but if someone like me (with some technology knowledge and comfort) still gets this easily tripped up on installing it, I can’t imagine the average person taking the leap successfully.
Lemme guess, Secure Boot prevented installation?
I think it was something like that, though its been about 6 weeks so Im a little fuzzy on it now. I was following a guide I’d found online and reached something different from what the guide said, so I aborted install to check on somethings and that apparently set something that when i tried to restart installation it kept throwing an error. Something about starting the installation without completing it messed something else up that I havent been able to fix. I spent an hour or so looking through stuff, even wiped the PC and it still wouldn’t work. I’ve been meaning to go back to it but haven’t gotten around to it.
Linux needs nothing to succeed. It just needs to wait and be there while the big corporations continue to fuck up their systems all on their own.
The recent surge in Linux use from the Windows 10 deprecation and Windows 11 being annoying proves that.
More and more Vendors like Valve will pop up with a growing user base.
The fundamental issue is that the desktops themselves are inferior products. Linux desktop developers spent years arguing which bad solution is better for a solved problem.
The gap is closer now but that’s only because Windows is killing itself.
So, what is the solved problem supposed to be? The link doesn’t really tell me anything except that it about a customisable titlebar or something.
That’s a weird thing to present as an absolute truth. As someone who has exstensively used both Windows (3.1, 95, 98, ME, XP, Vista, 7, 8, 10 and 11) and macOS (from 2011-2022), and now using KDE Plasma on my daily driver laptop, GNOME at work and Cinnamon for my living room machine: all three Linux DE are superior experiences.
Surely there are people who would prefer Windows and macOS over them, but it is highly subjective.
Huh? Linux has had the superior desktop experience for over a decade.
Windows just recently managed to get the basics like an actual clipboard, tabbed file management.
What is an “actual clipboard”??
Selectable, historical, you know actually useful.
Windows 10 introduced a half ass attempt that finally worked with all programs and could be considered functional.
Edit: to add an example look at this post on windows help by a Windows 7 user:
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/2660614/access-clipboard-windows-7
I have clipboard history enabled but holy is that an actual security nightmare.
IMO not a good requirement to have.
As always the security is with the user. No clipboard is just unusable.
And we are talking windows here, security was never important apparently until windows 10 anyways.
In fairness X11 was a threat right? That is one of the reasons Wayland broke so much.
As for the clipboard, kde applications can have a setting to say “this is a secret” and you can set to won’t clip. But passwords are so out of favor I am not sure it matters. If you had a keylogger running you are screwed, if you had an application harvesting the clip board I suppose that isn’t great, but how would it know what application/service/etc requested the contents?
No clipboard is just unusable.
there’s no “no clipboard”, what are you talking about? there’s been a clipboard in any OS since XP that I have used
security was never important apparently until windows 10 anyway
what? have you heard about 7?
As for the clipboard, kde applications can have a setting to say “this is a secret” and you can set to won’t clip.
I doubt that’s a setting, it’s just how it works. It’s not like it’s KDE specific behavior,even windows 10 is doing that.
I won’t even comment on the rest, but it’s bullshit
Windows did not have a functional clipboard. Go look at all the complaints over the years.
Windows historically had only a single-item clipboard and no built-in UI/history.
A separate one shipped with MS Office that let you store something like 12 to 20 items. Why? Because windows sucked and DID NOT HAVE ONE.
Windows itself did not get a built in Win+V searchable/historical clipboard until windows 10.
what? have you heard about 7?
Yes, better than XP, still not good. I am not going to do your homework, but Windows 10 was the first release that really focused on isolation, secrets management, and virtualization of applications for system wide and user protection.
I won’t even comment on the rest, but it’s bullshit
Just as well, you don’t know what you are talking about anyways.
No but seriously, what are you talking about?
Do you not know what a clipboard is? Did you not use linux for years and when you had to deal with the windows desktop it was easily in the top 10 of really annoying things a computer should be able to do?
In windows 10 they finally got a resemblance of clipboard. The bare minimum.
Meanwhile, Linux had a qr reader/writer, full object cut and paste, actions, white-space trimming, history length adjustment, persistence between sessions, blacklisting, clipboard editing, functions, search, sorting, should I keep going?
You can find multiple complaints over the years about how bad windows was at this.
Can you not just explain what you mean? You’re spending a ton of time not explaining it. Just explain what you mean. What feature was added in 10 that makes it a “real” clipboard?
Some of the Linux things you listed aren’t clipboard things (qr?). Others I don’t care about (persistent between seasons, sorting). Others that do exist in windows if applications implement it (objects). And a bunch of stuff I don’t know what you’re even talking about (functions?). White space trimming does sound nice but I know that isn’t in windows 10, so what exactly are you talking about?
You need me to spell out what I said? Windows did not have a clipboard. That is it. You could enable one separately for word/excel for awhile.
Otherwise the system got one slot. ONE to hold text. That was it. And there wasn’t even a way to look at the contents for a very long time.
I was explaining what I mean. What more could i say?
You are highlighting exactly what I am talking about: Linux has had a ton of features for the desktop for years (better right click context menus, better network protocol support, better nearly everything) but windows people didn’t so they don’t even know why using windows was basically living in the dark ages until Windows 10 started to get some worthwhile features. Windows 11 was the first to actually get a nearly functional file manager for example.
I mean you are thinking QR read/write is not a useful clipboard feature?
But, on the flip side, they’ve also had gnome for over a decade. Balance in all things.
Linux don’t need anything to challenge Windows. Windows is doing great on their own.
For gaming and home use I think Windows will slowly die off. But I see precious few enterprise customers who are willing to consider Linux desktops for anyone other than sysadmins or programmers. Some will allow Macs for general users but I’ve never seen one that allows Linux.
I’d try and get my work to switch, but apparently Zebra thermal printers (of which we have so many) don’t work well with CUPS, you may be able to do some weird shit to make them work but iirc it wasn’t too viable for a large scale operation.
I’d wager a lot of companies do use things that just don’t work too well on linux yet, not that they couldn’t work it’s just that none of the people smarter than me who make linux happen have worked on it yet, and until they do it’s just what it is. Before we want to capture the enterprise market we need good easy to use thermal printing software, CNC software, laser etching software, stuff like that. It can be done too for at least most things I’m sure.
Enterprise is where windows has deep claws embedded.
Hard to enforce a GPO on Linux, unless it’s locked down like ChromeOS.
That’s really the limiting factor: liability and support costs.
I think you can:
- set up something like Fedora Silverblue,
- disallow root,
- disallow sysrq and such,
- allow sudo only for select few things,
- refresh configuration centrally.
I’m not sure it’s much more work than what I’ve seen in corporate environments with Windows.
I’ve managed Linux desktop fleets in enterprise-like environments. I’ll modify your list a bit:
- Use Rocky or RHEL (because the commercial software you want to use only has support for RHEL and/or Ubuntu)
- disallow root completely without exception
- do additional hardening
- don’t allow sudo for fucking anything
- run centrally controlled configuration management (most likely Puppet)
- Ironically - disallow any use of Flatpak, Snap and AppImage. They don’t play that well with Kerberized NFS-mounted home directories, which you absofuckinglutely will be required to use. (Might have improved since I tried last time, but probably not. Kerberos and network mounted directories,home or otherwise, are usually a hard requirement.)
- Install and manage all software via configuration management (again, somewhat ironically, this works very well with RPMs and DEBs, but not with Flatpak/Snap/Appimage). Update religiously, but controlled (i.e. Snap is out).
- A full reprovision of everything fairly regularly.
- You most likely want TPM-based unlocking of your LUKS encrypted drives, with SecureBoot turned on. This is very fun to get working properly in a Linux environment, but super simple to do on Windows.
And as you have guessed, on Windows this requires a bit of point and click in SCCM to do decently.
On Linux, you’ll wanna start by getting a few really good sysadmins to write a bunch of Puppet for a year or so.
(If we include remote desktop capabilities in the discussion, I’ll do my yearly Wayland-rant.)
The other thing you’ll need is for compliance and risk management frameworks (e.g. CMMC, ISO27001, CIS, etc.) to fully embrace Linux controls and environments. As of right now, it’s a patchwork full of holes and if you need to demonstrate compliance, it’s likely to be a lot more challenging running Linux workstations.
- OK. I agree, but personally hate RHEL.
- Yes.
- Suppose so.
- Brightness and sound controls too?..
- Yep, meant that.
- I thought of something like company-issued laptops, which might be good to have functional without Internet connectivity sometimes, if it’s remote work.
- Dependent on the role some users might need to regularly install software you haven’t thought about.
- Yes.
- Well, disagree about SecureBoot, there’s nothing secure about MS signing your binaries. It’s just proof they are signed by MS. Setting TPM under Linux is, eh, something I’ve never done.
Well, disagree about SecureBoot, there’s nothing secure about MS signing your binaries. It’s just proof they are signed by MS. Setting TPM under Linux is, eh, something I’ve never done.
that’s the difficult part of SecureBoot: you need to set up MOK and somehow sign the bootloader, kernel, modules with it.
but against small scale intrusions even the MS signed things could workYou need to have secure boot in order to have the disk decrypt without user input, otherwise the chain is untrusted. You can (and probably should) load your own keys into the firmware and sign everything yourself. MS has nothing to do with it, except that BitLocker is much better than anything any Linux distro has to offer today.
You need to have the disk decrypt without user input, and you can’t have the secret with the user. (As the user is untrusted - could be someone stealing the laptop.) The normal Linux user mantra of ”I own the machine” does not apply here. In this threat model, the corporation owns the machine, and in particular any information on it.
As for sudo, this is why we have polkit. (Yes, technically root, but you get my point)
And as for number 7 - this is why most Windows fleets use ”Software Center” or similar. No reason you can’t do the same on Linux, just that no one has done it yet. (I mean, you can, with pull requests into a puppet repo, but that’s not very user friendly)
Hate RHEL all you want, but first take a look at what distros have any kind of commercial support at all from software vendors. This is the complete list: RHEL, sometimes Rocky, sometimes Ubuntu. Go ask your vendor about Fedora Silverblue and see what happens. The primary reason to run Linux like this is usually to use a specific (and probably very expensive) software that works best on Linux, so distro choice is usually very limited to what that software vendor supports. (And when they say Linux, they are really saying ”the oldest still supported RHEL.)
Basically, corporate requirements go completely against the requirements of enthusiasts and power users. You don’t need Secure Boot to protect your machine from thieves, but a corporation needs Secure Boot to protect the machine from you.
MS has nothing to do with it, except that BitLocker is much better than anything any Linux distro has to offer today.
It’s a piece of software with closed source code. I am aware that people can hide (and have done so many times) a backdoor or a mistake in source code so that it’ll be harder to find than many problems in binaries without source provided.
Still harder to audit.
You need to have the disk decrypt without user input, and you can’t have the secret with the user. (As the user is untrusted - could be someone stealing the laptop.) The normal Linux user mantra of ”I own the machine” does not apply here. In this threat model, the corporation owns the machine, and in particular any information on it.
Smart cards?
Hate RHEL all you want, but first take a look at what distros have any kind of commercial support at all from software vendors. This is the complete list: RHEL, sometimes Rocky, sometimes Ubuntu.
I know.
Basically, corporate requirements go completely against the requirements of enthusiasts and power users. You don’t need Secure Boot to protect your machine from thieves, but a corporation needs Secure Boot to protect the machine from you.
Sigh. Okay.
I came here to say that too
Adobe.
Autodesk.
I use older versions of Photoshop. Sorry, GIMP ain’t it.
Krita is good
This is why I left this comment. Good to know, gotta try it.
Pretty sure at least half of Adobe’s users are on macOS.
A fraction of 1% of desktop users use creative suite
He’s right. If vendors offered Linux based machines people would try. Valve is helping Linux adoption more than all the big names like Dell, Lenovo, HP… combined.
Are you talking about a Chromebook?
Aside from that… I remember when I had my very first help desk job in 2008, Dell was shipping Latitude laptops with Linux for $90 less than the laptops that shipped with Windows… which is what a lot of places did that already paid for their own licensing direct from MS.
I’m aware of Dell officially supporting Ubuntu on their business machines, I appreciate that. What I meant is the market impact. Dell sells those development oriented workstations for those who actively seek them.
Go to any consumer store, online or meatspace, anything that is not a Macbook or Chromebook comes with windows.
(Of course it’s a chicken and egg problem, stores don’t want to stock things that won’t be in high demand)
Meatspace 🍖🥩
I do a lot of work setting up computers and laptops for people, mostly getting software they need installed and setting up ad blocking so I don’t need to come back later on and clean up a million viruses.
Lately, I’ve been offering a discount to people that allow me to get rid of windows entirely and install Linux, with the option to reinstall Windows for free later. I’ve had several people take me up on the offer, especially once I explain what Recall is to them. Only 1 has had me switch it back, and they needed to use some super niche piece of software that I just absolutely could not get running with wine no matter what I installed, and I suspect that it has something built in to make it not run on non-windows systems.
Basically, just explaining Microsoft’s security nightmare in a way that your average person can understand (and I mean a real average person, not the average person as people on Linux forums see them) has gotten over 2 dozen clients to switch over to Linux with minimal issues.
Also windows borking like 5 peoples SSDs certainly helped!
Do you mind sharing your “script” or bullet points how you tell people about the Recall thing?
Will just add myself here for the script
Choice is both one of Linux’s greatest strengths and weaknesses. There are so many distros that offer something great an unique, but that also leads to choice paralysis as well as fragmentation. I think Bazzite has been great for the Linux gaming space because it does offer a single user experience that reduces the knowledge barrier for those just getting into Linux.
I think there is a strategy in what you are pointing out.
For the general public, its not that we should advocate for the use of software, but for the use of a package of hardware+software.
People dont say they want iOS or MacOS or even Windows. They say they want an iPad, Macbook or ASUS Strix Laptop. The software is not a primary consideration for them.
The Steam Deck is the prime example. Its about making the package attractive.
If we can do things like have Bazzite make a deal with Steam for “Steam Machine” accreditation, that can be packaged and marketed to be sold by the hardware vendors. Probably starting with the gaming system integrators.
We need a similar brand and package for general purpose users, but I dont know what the set of hooks would be to make it marketable. Maybe its right to repair, maybe 10 years of software support. Maybe a 10 year warranty. Something the community still needs to figure out. Linux Mint is probably one of the most suitable for this package.
I’ve been using Linux for my primary gaming machine since 2016, and I’m amazed at how fast I was up and running in Bazzite.
In 20 minutes I installed the OS, pointed it to my steam drives, and had Expedition 33 running with an Xbox Controller over Bluetooth.
“Everyone wants to save the world, but no one can agree on how…”
The linux problem in a nutshell
Yep, choice is nice, but everyone and their uncle rolling out distros is excessive as all fuck. Especially when there is precious little that isnt ultimately, deep down, just another flavor of Debian, Arch or Fedora.
This is one of the coolest things about Universal Blue OSs like Bazzite. You can very easily roll your own custom OS based off of one of their images. And it’s all automated.
I feel like that’s the best of both worlds. Extreme customizability and standardization.
So? There are lots of restraint and cars and people manage to just pick one
They also usually stay true to their car brand.
So the choice has been narrowed down to their house brand and the current/last year model.
So much choices… /s
Thats not actually a problem. Every other OS has that problem.
Mac will never get 100% market share because there will always be people that hate their workflow. Linux can offer a tailored version to everyone’s liking.
As long as they don’t need nividia drivers.
There are versions that ship with the proprietary nvidia driver. The reason people have issues is the distros shipping the open version due to philosophy or distros shipping the open version for compatibility reasons. The open version is worse but at least it works the proprietary version doesnt support a lot of cards.
As long as they don’t need nividia drivers.
Luckily NVidia is rather selling their GPUs to AI datacenters than to home consumers.
Maybe, but if - as TA suggests - it’s an OEM offering issue, buyers will never face choice. Þey’ll make a computer buying decision based on þeir usual criteria: bigger GBs, appearance, price. Þe specific distribution would largely be irrelevant to most. Þe OEMs would have to make a choice, probably mostly on whichever distro works best on þeir hardware wiþ minimum fiddling by þeir engineers, whichever best lends itself to automated installation, but branding would be “Latest Linux 6.18.1! Free upgrades forever!” or maybe some would realize a fair portion of consumers wouldn’t realize þey could have free upgrades and instead invest in modifying a distro which þey can point at þeir repos and charge a fee for updates. Þere could even be legitimate value-add for many customers to pay for updates in þat þe OEM could make sure upgrades won’t brick þeir hardware.
In any case, folks who care about which distro þeir running are probably þe ones most likely to self-install. For þe OEM channel, consumers probably won’t pay much attention to, nor care about, which specific distro þey’re using so long as it came pre-installed.
I’ll never not downvote comments that unnecessarily use characters like “Þ” instead of actual words.
what about just growing up
I think they should go all the way and use both letters. Þþ is for th as in ‘thing’ Ðð is for th as in ‘the’ XP
I think the idea is to fuck with AI. Why not, it doesn’t really help much, it doesn’t do much harm either.
I agree the “harm” is small. But when the benefit is zero and the harm non-zero, the author is wasting our collective time.
I think today is the day I block @Sxan@piefed.zip … sorry dude.
I’m not sure oem adoption would make many people migrate. Here in Brazil, it’s a common practice for oems to sell computers with linux, and they cost cheaper, with the same hardware configuration. The result: people see them just as a cheaper option and ask their Tech Friend™ to install a pirated windows for them.
I don’t think that people don’t make tech choices. They actually choose windows, and will find a way to have windows, if it’s not a default. People who use linux do so mostly as a choice, not simply because it came installed.
I’m not sure it’s good for Linux to attract disgruntled windows users. It would be better to attract people who actually want to use an OS that is different to Windows, rather than ones that just want a Windows that works. Linux is not a version of Windows.
It would be better to attract people who actually want to use an OS that is different to Windows, rather than ones that just want a Windows that works. Linux is not a version of Windows.
Absolute agreement.
Around the turn of the century, we used to say something like, “Linux is for people who hate Microsoft, BSD is for people who love UNIX.”
Not much has changed in the larger discussion about Desktop Linux. General discussion is driven by how “safe” and “comfortable” Windows users feel installing and using it for the first time. It’s a bullshit discussion.
It’s a weird relationship, like a new girlfriend who is always comparing you to the last boyfriend who beat her. She may even go back to him because he is familiar, without ever recognizing that you are better in every way.
Linux as a desktop is perfectly fine and usable on it’s own, without comparison to Windows. I’ve used it for over a quarter century and had a normal life, from middle school through postgrad and a decade-long career. My kids use it for everything including school and gaming and have no problems making friends and turning in assignments. People need to get out of the poverty mindset that Windows is the standard for a desktop. It’s fucking terrible. Linux has been usable for the desktop for 25 fucking years for those who want it. Windows itself copied many things from the Linux desktop, going all the way back to the first themes on Windows XP, and now there’s an entire Linux subsystem for Windows, all because Linux has been been better at package management and dependency resolution since the Clinton administration. Windows is fucking awful as a desktop.
No one wants to use any OS.
People just want to use their computer easily, and do what they want with relatively little hindrance or concern. The overwhelming bulk of people, I’d wager, Don’t care about the OS as long as it stays the hell out of the way and isnt obnoxious.
Which is why Windows reigned for so long, because regardless of what criticism you throw at it… Microsoft was amazingly successful at creating a GUI and interface that you could set anyone in front of and they’d be able to figure out basic usage in half an hour with relatively little direction… and, especially in its heyday of windows 7, did an excellent job of just being mostly invisible to everyday use. It wasnt even a thought in your head. Just throw your disc in/download your software, and run. No thought, no worry. Just doing what you need and want to do, without having to think about it or worry about it.
Linux, depending on the distro, is finally getting close to that same place… Where you can just use it without having to think about it to much. Where you don’t have to dig into a terminal and look up command line actions and such. For basic mom&pop email and banking computers, you know…basic web based stuff, Linux has been there for I would say almost a decade at this point.
But for gaming and other stuff? I You’ve been able to do it for longer, but I’d say the past 2 years have just been an absolute golden age of being able to just do stuff without really having to worrying about your OS/proton/etc. The only remaining roadblock that requires you to stop and think at all is to see if the game uses a kernal based anticheat, and thats pretty much the only roadblock to playing a small minority of games on linux, Which doesnt feel like a small minority if those are the bulk of the games you play, in all fairness… But thats not even linux’s fault. Blame the devs for being shady fuckers for it, cause plenty of BIG games out there use regular old anticheat that doesnt have to have full root access to your computer and often does an even better job at stopping shit than the kernal anticheats.
Microsoft was amazingly successful at creating a GUI and interface that you could set anyone in front of and they’d be able to figure out basic usage in half an hour with relatively little direction
Huh? Windows is a confusing mess. I don’t think this is true at all. Windows was successful at being in businesses, and the what I learned at work became what I use at home.
Edit: I know this from experience, I set up a lot of linux users over the years. No computer experience: Linux was just as easy, if not easier thanks to package management, than windows.
I watched new computer people struggle with windows far more often.
Then there was the I barely know windows user switching to Linux who complained about the whole thing because of their ingrained habits.
A lot of people just want a browser that works. They don’t care at all about anything else in the OS. For them, Linux can be perfect. So if they’re disgruntled that Windows keeps shoving ads and AI bullshit in their eyeballs, when all they want to do is check their email and watch YouTube, a preinstalled Linux laptop is a great answer.
that is good point. Having tons of people who would prefer to use windows but cant or dont for some reason is the way for them starting to demand stuff that would make things more like windows. Have enough of them and they might start having an impact and who knows where that might lead, most likely nothing positive though.
To Torvalds, Chromebooks “are the path toward the desktop.”
What does he mean by this?
I struggle to believe Chromebooks will meaningfully contribute to more people adopting Linux, because Google is more interested in getting people to adopt Google instead.
From my perspective, he is probably referring to chromeOS’s crosvm container, which virtualises a debian install (or other distros). Since Chromebooks are popular in schools, predominantly in the USA but even still globally, students are likely to attempt to gain further functionality out of their devices, and hence experiment with Linux, get used to it and possibly install it on different devices (or on that same Chromebook through the mrchromebox firmware) in the future.
Edit: alternatively, he could just be referring to flooding the market with cheap Linux laptops for specific purposes like education workflows or standard consumer workflows, just like how Chromebooks achieved that footing in the market.
Linux as we know it being very customizable and having many choices will never work for mass market. If Linux becomes a truly mass market consumer OS then it will be within walled garden of a large corporation like Google or others.
Everyday people want a computer with a brand name they recognize and for it to just work with all the big name software they know already. They likely won’t even know they are using Linux, it’s something us nerds will know but to them they are just using Google, Microsoft, Meta, or whoever else gets Linux to mass adoption.
problem is, a “linux” from google/microsoft/meta will solve 0 problems we have today with windows
I imagine he means things like Chromebook, rather than Chromebook itself. Mass-market consumer hardware which comes with Linux by default
The Steam Deck. It’s been my daily PC since I got it.
So Linux, “the free alternative to Windows”, needs corporate backing to sell it and make it mainstream?
This has been tried before and a lot of Linux fans don’t like it. The first time I’m aware was Lindows, which was offered on CD at Walmart and other retailers. Microsoft sued and they changed the name to Linspire. It was corporate Linux, and the best thing it had going for it was that it wasn’t Windows. Beyond that, it was kind of garbage. I mean, I guess it was Linux, but it wasn’t right somehow.
If you want a corporate backed alternative to Windows because you don’t like certain things Microsoft stands for, get a Mac. Honestly, you can’t do much better than a MacBook Air these days, but the $500 M4 Mac mini (down to $480 in some stores for the holidays) is pretty damn hard to beat. It doesn’t run most games though, but beyond that it’s fine. Just know that Apple stands for a lot of things Microsoft does. Regardless, it’s a corporate-backed OS that is an alternative to Windows, with solid hardware support… and it’s not really denting Microsoft’s market share, despite being objectively better for everything but gaming and repairability (the latter of which does not extend to Microsoft’s Surface machines, but PCs in general).
I think the best thing for Linux was the end of Windows 10’s life. Computers with 7th gen Intel and older were able to run Linux perfectly, despite Microsoft drawing the line in the sand there. My last Wintel machine ran a 4th generation Xeon, and it ran Windows 11 just fine with hacks (though not recently, I’ve been a full fledged Mac user for 2 years since that rig died).
And I think the worst thing, the thing holding Linux back the most, is the divisiveness of the Linux community. It’s not everyone, but the guys who run Arch (and some of the Debian guys) looking down their noses at the Mint and Ubuntu guys… like, suck it up princess! People gotta start somewhere, and if you show the Mint and Ubuntu guys you’re willing to help, they’re more likely to be Arch and Debian guys in the future. But for now, depending on what you like (KDE/Mint for Windows expats, and GNOME/Ubuntu for Mac users), those beginner Linux distros are just fine! It’s a foot in the door. And if they’re happy with it, more power to 'em. (And if they got a Mac? Hey, at least it’s not Windows!)
I have been using Linux for a few years now I have never seen someone say “arch btw” unironically. I swear, memers do more damage to its perception.
I first heard of Arch in 2013. It was something talked about at work as being a bit of a pain in the ass to get going, but once it was running, “kinda nice.” That didn’t interest me at the time. It still doesn’t. I didn’t want to do extra work to make my work computer functional. I borderline hate these fucking things.
I only “heard” one person bragging that they used Arch, but that was in 2017 or 2018 on a Discord thing for a game I was playing at the time. I haven’t “heard” anyone brag about it since then, but I’ve read maybe 4-5 comments since 2018 where the writer was coming off like they were proud of themselves because they use Arch.
It’s weird as fuck.
I don’t think it’s that weird personally, it’s more just a disconnect in how different people see operating systems. If you’re the type to not want to do extra work to make your computer functional you probably view your OS as more of a tool, but people proud of their arch installs usually see their OS as a hobby/project and put the amounts of research/time/effort into their OS that you’d expect from any other hobby.
As a related anecdote I see cars as tools and absolutely do not want to do extra work on them, similarly to how it sounds like you see your OS. My car people friends will spend hours fucking with their cars just to change the color of something or add a bit more power that they don’t actually need, and at the end of the day they’re really proud of their machines (exactly like people installing arch). I don’t think this is weird even tho I look at cars very differently than they do, cuz I can respect the time, effort, and knowledge they invested that makes them so proud - even if at the end of the day I still just see cars as a way to get from point A to point B.
Fair perspective. I don’t think you’re wrong, but I don’t think of the car guys and the arch people as similar.
As a non-car guy, I’ve never had a car guy try to be smug with me about an engine he built.
And I think the worst thing, the thing holding Linux back the most, is the divisiveness of the Linux community. It’s not everyone, but the guys who run Arch (and some of the Debian guys) looking down their noses at the Mint and Ubuntu guy
I don’t know what communities you’re frequenting but this is not my experience of the Linux community at all. Possibly you’re reading jokes as serious, or you’re just hanging out with lots of children (Discord?) without realising it.
The unfortunate thing is that OEMs don’t really have an incentive to ship Linux-powered systems.
Have you ever noticed how vendors who ship computers with Linux often do so at the same or greater cost than Windows? I believe I have heard somewhere that Microsoft subsidizes OEMs for shipping with Windows, which is scummy but Linux can’t really compete with this.
Have you ever noticed how vendors who ship computers with Linux often do so at the same or greater cost than Windows?
Yeah… Even when going to Linux exclusively, it’s usually better to pick the Windows device.
Not sure if they still do, but PC Manufacturers used to get kick backs from every vendor they added shovelware for. For example, E-Machines was famous for it… AOL, Adobe, Office, shareware “pay to unlock” versions of games, Norton, etc. everyone sent checks to Dell, HP, Compaq, etc, just to peddle their wares for them.
