• LemmeAtEm@lemmy.ml
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      10 hours ago

      You’re assuming libs apply their racism consistently rather than in whatever way immediately suits their interests. “How can you accuse me of hating black people, I loved Obama!” -countless libs.

  • Coolkidbozzy [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    19 hours ago

    On a case-by-case basis I can strip every one of those flags away from libs except NATO and Ukraine. Usually stemming from a deep immovable hatred of Russia and China. Not sure how to make headwinds there without explicitly calling them racist because that’s how they sound

    • AnarchoEngineer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      18 hours ago

      Or you’re in an .ml community which has a larger proportion of people who agree with the sentiment in this meme than lots of other instances.

      Plus some people who don’t share those beliefs have probably blocked the instance, so there’s likely that bias too

  • bassomitron@lemmy.world
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    20 hours ago

    Ukraine–the county literally being invaded by Russia–is an imperialist, war mongering tyrant? Get the fuck out of here with this slop. Could’ve just left it with the main flags, but throwing Ukraine’s flag in there is legit braindead Chinese/Russian trolling.

    • Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml
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      13 hours ago

      If the US is running the show then yeah it’s definitely imperialism, we’ve very clearly succeeded in mongering up a war there, and I do recall some pretty unambiguous reports of the current regime in Ukraine directly suppressing opposition parties and suspending elections

        • folaht@lemmy.ml
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          6 hours ago

          No, it makes it okay for a foreign country to invade with just cause when there was…

          1. A coup
          2. The next election was won through the popularity of a tv series, where the election winner played president on tv. This was not a coincidence.
          3. It became very clear that the policies of these two presidents that it would completely isolate Ukraine from Russia, despite half of Ukraine being Russian and the other half semi-Russian.
          4. This upset parts of Ukraine that have deep economic ties with Russia so much, that they declared independence of Ukraine to join Russia, starting with Crimea.
          5. This in turn was painted by US/UK media as aggressive annexation by Putin.
          6. It also became clear that Zelensky wanted to join the EU at all costs.
          7. This concerned Russia as the EU doesn’t seem to be independent of NATO policy and having nukes placed close to Russia’s border aimed at Moscow in areas where xx% of the population would consider themselves Russian wanting to join Russia is considered a nightmare scenario for Russia if separatist conflict would be taking place there.
          8. Russia then made negotiations with Ukraine to address both concerns and Ukraine did not uphold their part of the agreement. This happened twice and in both cases this ended up with military victory for Russia and the separatist areas.
          9. Russia also negotiated with NATO, since NATO was supplying Ukraine with arms to end this conflict and it became clear that NATO and the EU were pushing Ukraine to further the conflict.
          10. At this point Russia decided that it was time to act before things would get further out of control, showing Ukraine’s president that they were willing to wage war in order to prevent high otential nuclear conflict, by doing a small flash invasion, while preparing for world war III.
          11. Ukraine’s president then flipped, saying he was willing to take the situation serious, but then flopped when UK’s former prime minister came to visit him telling Zelensky that NATO was prepared to fully support Ukraine with whatever military equipment he needed.
        • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
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          10 hours ago

          Is eight years of ethnic cleansing, three broken treaties and potential nukes in the hands of a nazi junta not “just cause” enough for you?

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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          11 hours ago

          There was just cause. The Kiev regime has killed 13,000 civilians in the Donbass region, and had amassed huge amounts of troops to retake the seperatist regions shortly before Russian intervention stopped the invasion.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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          13 hours ago

          The west treats Ukraine like they do Israel. After the western-supported Euromaidan coup in 2014, they’ve armed millitant Banderites to crack down on communists and geopolitical adversaries of the west.

        • LemmeAtEm@lemmy.ml
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          9 hours ago

          Its government came to power as a result of a US-backed coup, for starters.

          edit: For the record, I upvoted you because your question is fair and valid if you don’t know the history and context of the situation. And the western media where many people understandably (if sadly) get their information from will never provide that history and context. That is why we get these confidently ignorant people coming into threads like this gobsmacked that anyone can deny what they see as the obvious truth of Russia’s “unjustified invasion by a foreign aggressor.”

    • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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      20 hours ago

      “How can they not be a Good Guy if they’re fighting a Bad Guy!”

      Liberals continue to get there politics from capeshit.

      Chinese/Russian trolling.

      Just openly admitting that you see all foreigners as interchangeable villains.

      • bassomitron@lemmy.world
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        11 hours ago

        Uh, what? Look at the context of this post, jackass. The meme is trying to portray Russia as a misunderstood good guy while everyone else is evil. I agree with most of the evil flags being there rightfully, but Ukraine is literally defending itself from unjustified invasion. Jfc, it’s crazy this has to be explained. Just look at the entire history of Russia’s aggression and bullying of Ukraine and try to tell me with a straight face that they’re unjustified in defending themselves from a foreign aggressor.

        • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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          3 hours ago

          The meme is trying to portray Russia as a misunderstood good guy while everyone else is evil.

          No it doesn’t, you’re strawmanning

          I agree with most of the evil flags being there rightfully, but Ukraine is literally defending itself from unjustified invasion.

          You think being invaded automatically makes a country good?

        • LemmeAtEm@lemmy.ml
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          10 hours ago

          Uh, what? Look at the context of this post, jackass. The meme is trying to portray Russia as a misunderstood good guy

          The flag of Russia isn’t even in the meme, “jackass.” The flag of the USSR is, though sadly it hasn’t existed for a few decades now. Like most clueless liberals happily drowning in propaganda, you are falsely equating modern capitalist Russia with the USSR.

          And that’s not even getting into the fact that even modern Russia (whose flag appears nowhere in this image, genius) was wholly justified in entering the civil war that had already been ongoing inside Ukraine on behalf of the eastern regions of Ukraine whose civilians were being slaughtered by the Ukrainian government’s militias. But I admit that it’s hard to keep a straight face when talking to someone who uses NATO buzzwords like “unjustified foreign aggressor” because I keep having to facepalm.

        • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
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          10 hours ago

          Begging liberals to stop thinking of the world in terms of “good guys and bad guys” like overgrown toddlers and start looking at things in terms of cause and effect like adults

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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          11 hours ago

          Kiev is run by Bandera-upholding Neo-Nazis that took power in the western-backed Euromaidan coup in 2014. Since then, 13,000+ civilians in the Donbass region have been killed by the Kiev regime, which is why Donetsk and Luhansk voted to secede. Communists generally support Russian intervention to protect the DPR and LPR against the western-backed fascists, who shortly before Russian intervention had ammassed huge forces to invade the Donbass region and retake it.

          Ukraine is supported by the west for similar reasons as Israel, they are governed by the far-right and serve western interests in their respective regions.

          • zeezee@slrpnk.net
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            10 hours ago

            These are a lot of assertions that you’ve stated as fact without any proof - can you provide independent non-government sanctioned sources for your claims?

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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              10 hours ago

              Sure, here are even some western government sanctioned sources.

              Groups like Azov have been folded in officially. The Kiev regime upholds Stepan Bandera and uses likeness for propaganda. Nazis infest Ukrainian leadership:

              The east supported Yanukovych, and that’s why the far-right Banderites couping him kicked off the war.

              There’s an abundance of evidence, just like there is for the genocide of Palestine. Liberals tend to downplay both.

                • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                  2 hours ago

                  TBF it’s often the commenter’s first exposure to any of this, and that most of it comes from respected Western sources makes them hard to brush off.

              • zeezee@slrpnk.net
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                6 hours ago

                Valid, those sources do paint a pretty appalling picture of Ukraine and it’s massive Neo-Nazi problem - I can argue on the specific numbers as they don’t fully reflect what you said but I agree that there are real issues with Azov’s integration, Bandera glorification, and the disproportionate far-right influence.

                However, I’d ask you to also acknowledge that Russia has an equally serious neo-Nazi problem that fundamentally undermines the “denazification” justification for the invasion. And I don’t think it’s whataboutism to pointing out that the stated moral basis for the war is hypocritical. And this is clearly established by both Russian state and independent media:

                1.Putin himself admitted Wagner PMC was fully state-funded:

                • RIA Novosti (Russian state news): Wagner received 86.262 billion rubles from the state budget just from May 2022-May 2023

                2.Wagner’s neo-Nazi leadership:

                • Wagner founder Dmitry Utkin has documented SS tattoos (InformNapalm)
                • Wagner incorporated the openly neo-Nazi “Rusich” group (Meduza)

                3.“Rusich” leader Aleksey Milchakov - is an openly psychopathic Nazi:

                4.Neo-Nazi Russian Imperial Movement (RIM) founder Denis Gariyev received at least 15 million rubles worth of government contracts from Russia’s FSB, FSO, and Ministry of Internal Affairs

                • And it goes without saying that they are a pro russian-imperialist entity as clearly stated in their Вконтакте page: https://m.vk.com/imper_legion

                5.Putin’s contradictions:

                • Even during Wagner’s mutiny, while calling Prigozhin a traitor, Putin called Wagner fighters “heroes who liberated Soledar and Artyomovsk” fighting for “the unity of the Russian World” (Life.ru)
                • After Prigozhin’s death, Putin praised Wagner’s “significant contribution to our common cause of fighting the neo-Nazi regime in Ukraine”

                So my point overall: Ukraine absolutely has a far-right problem that needs addressing and the US and Europe are propping them up as they align with their neoliberal and geopolitical values. But Russia claiming to “denazify” Ukraine while:

                • Fully funding Wagner
                • Wagner being founded by a neo-Nazi with SS tattoos
                • Incorporating openly neo-Nazi “Rusich” into military operations
                • Allowing neo-Nazi Milchakov to teach Russian children
                • Giving government contracts to neo-Nazis

                …makes “denazification” a cynical propaganda justification rather than a genuine moral concern.

                So I think if we’re serious about being anti-imperialist we have to recognize that if it’s bad for neolibs to use Nazis in Ukraine for their imperial interests then it’s also bad for Russia to use Nazis for their own imperialist goals.

                It’s possible for two imperialist forces to be bad - and you can then start comparing which is worse but at that point you’re doing imperialist apologia which imo isn’t a serious critique for a socialist to be doing.

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                  5 hours ago

                  There are 2 critical errors you’re making here, and thus why your critique falls flat and lifeless:

                  1. The Nazis in Ukraine aren’t just emboldened by the state, but in control of it. Russia is governed by nationalists, not by Nazis. Ukraine isn’t simply using Nazis to further their aims, but the west is using Ukrainian Nazis to further their aims.

                  2. Russia is not imperialist. It has a paltry amount of finance capital, and no colonies nor neo-colonies. Its status as a capitalist nation no longer imperialized by the west like they were in the 90s strategically aligns then with the global south. This is why, say, the Sahel States turned to Russia for support in their national revolution against imperialism. Russia doesn’t participate in unequal exchange, it doesn’t keep tech monopoly nor does it undermine global south development.

                  I’m not doing imperialist apologia, you’re incorrectly identifying this as an inter-imperialist proxy war and as a consequence misanalyze the situation. This is why reading theory and studying the class components of the states involved, and their positions in world imperialism, are necessary.

    • notaviking@lemmy.world
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      20 hours ago

      Yeah not sure what Ukraine is doing there, clearly a troll. But not even the Soviet Union, China, US, UK all the other does not excuse them from their atrocities. They are all bad, it does not matter if a Communist or a Capitalist is oppressing you, oppression is oppression. Trying to excuse your oppression by referring to the other side does it too is not a valid argument. People deserve freedom not subjugation

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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        12 hours ago

        There are a few critical flaws here.

        1. Ukraine is here for the same reason Israel is, both are vassals of western imperialists that help secure western interests in their respective regions. No trolling here.

        2. The US and UK are far more oppressive with far more atrocities globally than either the USSR or PRC. Nobody is trying to point to other countries being bad to say that excuses oppression, but that the actual differences between socialist countries and imperialist ones is massive.

      • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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        19 hours ago

        They are all bad

        Good job, that’s exactly the understanding and framing that the Council on Foreign Relations wants you to have.

        Trying to excuse your oppression does it too is not a valid argument.

        Nobody is making such an argument.

        People deserve freedom not subjugation

        Ok then, that was always allowed.

      • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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        20 hours ago

        Yeah not sure what Ukraine is doing there, clearly a troll.

        excuse your oppression by referring to the other side does it too is not a valid argument.

        Uhuh

    • Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml
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      13 hours ago

      “Pointing out the verifiable fact that every single accusation we make is a confession is actually a logical fallacy so I’m allowed to pretend it doesn’t matter” lol fuck off pseud

        • AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml
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          18 hours ago

          Liberals will levy spurious accusations of awful things at socialist countries while ignoring atrocities of US aligned countries whose atrocities are both real and orders of magnitude worse than even the accusations.

            • Evilsandwichman [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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              17 hours ago

              Xinjiang is literally well built up and their language protected, Ukrainian militias on the other hand were indiscriminately shelling Russian speaking areas like Donbas and murdering people, with the government allowing them and trying to stop the Russian language from being taught and existing in Russian speaking locales; the people of Donbas before being liberated by Russia (they actually celebrate Russians as liberators) would’ve easily traded their fate with the Uighurs of Xinjiang while the Uighurs absolutely would not, which should tell you enough about both regions.

            • AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml
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              18 hours ago

              No that’s quite literally the current example happening right now. You are the person the meme is depicting. You are acting it out word for word like a reflection in a different medium.