More dataisdepressing than dataisbeautiful

      • @JovialMicrobial@lemm.ee
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        462 months ago

        I’m pretty sure women don’t want to date people who have any sort of disposition that leans towards hating them or believing that women are lesser than men.

        Unfortunately, a lot of men learned that way of thinking early in life(from family and/or media) and it ruins any attempt at a relationship, then they blame women and run to the very people who set them up to fail for validation, or find new ones like that sex trafficker with the pizza boxes, or that canadian psychologist who sugar coats sexism online. Repeat ad nauseum.

        • Echo Dot
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          2 months ago

          I have an old high school friend who is very much into the whole Andrew Tate thing. His parents were separated, I don’t know the details as to why, but I do know that his father was a lot more stable than his mother, and I do sometimes wonder if he had lived with his father, if he would have turned out better.

          He also thinks the earth is flat because… otherwise a ball would roll off a table. QED.

          So not exactly firing an all cylinders to begin with.

          • @Ragnarok314159@sopuli.xyz
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            92 months ago

            “Divorced dad energy” is one of those meme things that everyone likes to make fun of when a dude does anything, but no one likes to address that same poison when divorced moms act like fools.

            My mother would drag me to various groups that would absolutely shit on “men” constantly, and I got to hear that constantly. It was weird growing up in that environment, but luckily for me it was before the redpill trash all over the internet. Managed to find some good friends in high school

          • @Spacehooks@reddthat.com
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            12 months ago

            That’s a interesting point. My mother was substantially more mentally stable when I was a child then when my siblings were born.

            • @Kalysta@lemm.ee
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              32 months ago

              Didn’t he recently lose his license to practice because he was saying bullshit that no real psychiatrist would agree with?

              • Gamma
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                32 months ago

                Not yet! He has to go to training first

            • @Kalysta@lemm.ee
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              22 months ago

              Didn’t he recently lose his license to practice because he was saying bullshit that no real psychiatrist would agree with?

      • @DancingBear@midwest.social
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        92 months ago

        In the age of social media I imagine people are actually a lot more antisocial than we used to be…. And if young men and young women are all online more now and actually go out to interact in person less than we used to, this would make it a lot more difficult for young men to interact with the young women long enough to ask them out….

        • @Spacehooks@reddthat.com
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          22 months ago

          Online is heavily skewed in women’s favor unfortunately. I had a female coworker that had 100+ matches on bumble and kept complaining how hard it was too keep track of. She wasn’t even very pretty and she had an empty pot for head. Meanwhile male coworkers really struggle. No surprise This will make some males bitter and lash out. Even if they do find a partner Worst part is if the social skills are bad it is a bad relationship. I hope we are not seeing a universe 25 style collapse.

          • @DancingBear@midwest.social
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            92 months ago

            I wasn’t specifically talking about online dating, but women are generally more desired by men than vice versa, whether online or in person.

            I can’t imagine online dating to be useful than for more than a handful of people in my opinion.

            I was more saying since we are all online more, we are all interacting in person a lot less, which allows for more organic interactions…

            • @Spacehooks@reddthat.com
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              02 months ago

              Yeah I agree. Wanting to Go back the good old days is what is causing this trend. Though Realistically all the social skills in the world won’t bag you the girl if you are average right now. I knew a few coworkers that wouldn’t even talk to a guy unless he was a 666 man. 6 figures, 6 feet, 6 pack. No surprise they are single. I wonder if their POV changed overtime, they were in early 20s at the time. I know my old roommate lowered her standards super hard over 30 to bag a husband.

          • @DancingBear@midwest.social
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            2 months ago

            I can’t remember which app it was, but I tried online dating over a decade ago. I noticed I wasn’t getting very many responses to any messages I sent out, and it was basically after saying yes to everyone and I had spent some time on the app, so I got to the point where I just messaged everyone a generic opener….

            I talked to my female roommate at the time and I got a couple generic photos of her, she was a young mid 20’s woman who was very pretty but idk average for a young beautiful woman.

            I created a new profile for myself, and also a second profile for her, I let her choose the most attractive photos of me and I chose some dorky not very attractive but still cute I guess photos of her….

            She had ten messages before we were even able to upload the first photo after just creating the account.

            This doesn’t mean that she got messages from guys who were someone she would consider dating. It just means she got a lot of messages. I think guys don’t realize how many messages the women get. They have to wade through hundreds of “hi how are you doing” messages before they can even start a conversation. Whereas the guys have to send out messages that are unique and capture the attention of ladies to get a conversation started. Neither is ideal, it’s just how it is

            • @Spacehooks@reddthat.com
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              52 months ago

              That’s very true and likely why she felt so overwhelmed. No one is really winning. She would have had a really good match in there but drowned in a sea of options.

              • @DancingBear@midwest.social
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                32 months ago

                In this case we only left the app open for a couple hours that afternoon before we deleted it, but it’s just anecdotal evidence that show if we are specifically talking about online dating the problems are just as bad for either sex if we are talking about cis heteronormative relationships

                • @Spacehooks@reddthat.com
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                  22 months ago

                  A really sad point. Though I think drowning in option is better for self esteem than 0. If males had plenty I doubt we would see such a trend.

      • Gamma
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        2 months ago

        Hagmaxxing…? Do you hear yourself? None of this is based on reality.

        Edit: oh you’ve already been removed on another instance, nice

  • @puntyyoke@lemmy.world
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    1352 months ago

    A few folks have mentioned that these charts

    1. conflate liberal/conservative with the dominant left/right parties in these nations
    2. does not include people who do not identify with one of those dominant parties
    3. have some somewhat unreliable stats magic behind them

    A lot of young men in the US are reporting themselves as “not a Democrat or Republican”, and that’s causing a lot of this proportional shift. I would bet that characterizes a lot of folks on this site who are not conservative.

    https://www.vox.com/politics/2024/3/13/24098780/politics-gender-divide-generation-z-youth-men-women

    https://www.allendowney.com/blog/2024/01/28/is-the-ideology-gap-growing/

    • @krashmo@lemmy.world
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      312 months ago

      Exactly. I would be almost as upset with being classified as a liberal or a Democrat as I would be a conservative.

      • @kautau@lemmy.world
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        212 months ago

        At the same time I know many people (my brother included) that claim to be “independent” because they think that the trump camp is somehow outside the conservative camp, and therefore respond “independent” on polls. Because they think “I’m not democrat or conservative, I just want to drain the swamp” and then support trump, who is literally a swamp.

        • @Aceticon@lemmy.world
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          42 months ago

          That’s because when talking to tribalist types, you’re seen as either with them or against them and in a system with 2 political parties “against them” means “supporting the other guys”.

          There is no independent thinking amongst the “party supporter” masses, only following and parroting of the party messages, so the idea of somebody being a genuinely independent thinker guided by personal principles rather than following some tribe or other is anathema to them.

    • @jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de
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      252 months ago

      On the flip side, in Europe extreme right parties are mostly being propped up by young men, while in other age groups men and women vote relatively similarly, which supports this finding.

    • @gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      32 months ago

      conflate liberal/conservative with the dominant left/right parties in these nations

      Why do so many people on Lemmy insist on pretending that liberal/conservative aren’t relative terms?

      Every single time those words get used with their little l/c to mean "relatively liberal/conservative) I see multiple people go “well ackshully a Liberal is a right wing ideology!”

      • @LwL@lemmy.world
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        02 months ago

        The actual opposite of conservative in this case would be progressive. Liberal isn’t a relative term, progressive is. It’s easy enough to tell from context but when there’s already no info on how these graphs came to be it just adds to them being questionable.

    • @Zexks@lemmy.world
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      12 months ago

      Those ‘unaffiliated’s are just embarrassed republicans. Just like most of the centrists you’ll run across.

      • Echo Dot
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        72 months ago

        In the UK, where there actually is a centralist party, most of the “centralists” don’t actually vote for them. Which really tells you everything you need to know about centralism. It’s not a political ideology, it’s just a refusal to engage.

        • trainsaresexy
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          2 months ago

          Have you read it? Don’t judge too quickly!

          Actually on second thought nvm. If that’s you’re response then I’m out :)

            • trainsaresexy
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              2 months ago

              Thanks for explaining. I did a bad job explaining it, but I’m only taking a short break irl and am just jumping into this conversation. I’ve removed that section of my comment.

              The book explains this in more detail and I recommend it. We don’t get much deep discussion into what it means to be conservative/liberal and the purpose of the book isn’t to go into that but it does provide a framework. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Jacobs

              • lad
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                42 months ago

                But now your comment is just “here’s 10 hour read that explains everything, I will not elaborate” like in this post: https://sh.itjust.works/post/26206134

                You can at least leave info about what it should explain, at best you can summarise, but it is possible that you will not persuade people to read that.

                From the wiki page, it looks like the idea behind the book is viable, but nothing is scientific about it, no research, no further developments, it’s just how the author sees the system work. This may be insightful but should be taken with a large grain of salt

  • Lad
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    842 months ago

    When I think of all the women & girls in my life that I care about, I remember that I could never be a conservative. It would be a betrayal.

    Assuming this is accurate, I’m pleased to see men in the UK bucking the trend.

    • People like you are why we cannot discuss political ideas without being put into a bucket and given some horrific label. Being conservative doesnt make u sexist some conservative views are sexist same as some progressive view are sexist. Stop spouting hate like politics is a football team and practice critical thinking where you can take ideas from all perspectives.

    • @Wanderer@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      This is out of date.

      People are losing faith rapidly in the left because they don’t seem to be for the everyday working class Briton like they used to be.

      There is a big shift going to Reform now largely because they want to reduce immigration. The left deny the situation and the right have claimed they will reduce it every year then increase.

      People are flooding to the “far right”* because they don’t seen the main parties address the main issue they want addressing and have been talking about for decades at this point, generations even.

      _* not actually far right. But the left love throwing that term around to anyone that has a different opinion to them. They just want lower immigration, which historically has been a left leaning ideology

        • @Wanderer@lemm.ee
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          -102 months ago

          Do you know something about the UK I don’t?

          Please tell me about how the Tories link into this graph?

          • @fakeman_pretendname@feddit.uk
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            72 months ago

            The graph appears to show that from approximately 2010 (Libdem & Tory coalition) onwards for women, and a few years later (when we somehow got a full Tory government) for men, the younger people shown on the graph, said or thought something along the lines of “this Tory government is awful and we need to move in the opposite direction”.

            • @Wanderer@lemm.ee
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              02 months ago

              Its about not voting for the tories. More than it is anything else.

              Now there are more right options that will swing back. Hence how it is out of date.

              • @fakeman_pretendname@feddit.uk
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                12 months ago

                I agree that “not voting for the Tories” was pretty much the main driver, but these are not “new options”.

                The Brexit Party’s “surprise” increase this year, was in many ways just returning to the 10-15% that they received as UKIP in 2015.

                In the two elections in between, they agreed to not contest many of the Tory seats, to not risk “splitting the vote” to help keep “evil Jeremy” out of power.

                The Tory vote + Brexit Party vote, added together, is lower than the number who voted for either Boris Johnson, Theresa May or 2017 Jeremy Corbyn. Fewer people voted for Keir Starmer than Jeremy Corbyn in 2017 or 2019 - so technically the biggest change in vote is probably “did not/unable to vote this year”, with an increase of 3 million.

                As ever, “didn’t/unable to vote this year” won yet another successive landslide victory of about 20 million, or about the same as the top three parties added together.

                Anyway, apologies for the tangent. The graph is particularly looking at younger people, who are on average more left leaning, and have become more so in the last 40 years. Though the recent mainstream politics/media shift towards the far right is absolutely terrifying, I don’t think it’s reflected in the young people shown in this graph.

      • Echo Dot
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        2 months ago

        Look I don’t know how to tell you this but just because you live in a bubble doesn’t mean everybody else does.

        That is not “a big shift in the UK towards reform”, don’t be daft. They only have 4 MPs only two of which ever bothered turning up, they are about as politically relevant as my underwear.

        Also Reform absolutely are far right they are basically Nazis, albeit brainless lazy incompetent ones. You need to go outside and interact with normal members of the human race rather than whoever it is you’re talking to on the “I’m not racist but…” Facebook group

        • @Wanderer@lemm.ee
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          12 months ago

          14% of the vote from a brand new party, with signs that’s increasing. It not insignificant

          • Echo Dot
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            2 months ago

            You’re taking data out of context. You can make it say anything when you do that.

            Labour won with fewer votes than they got in the last election which they lost. That tells me that this was mostly a protest vote people weren’t voting for any particular party that were voting for not to the conservatives.

            But in the 2025 election the conservatives won’t be in power and so there won’t be a protest vote against them. If reform do well in those elections that would be evidence of a shift until then the balance of probability is simply that they were the obvious processed vote for the right-wing inclined that did not want to vote for the conservatives.

            You cannot draw any conclusions from the results of such a politically unstable period.

            Additionally I’m not letting you off the hook for in any way trying to suggest that the reform party are in any way shape or form anything but a bunch of bigoted misogynists. How dare you suggest that they are simply a right-wing political party that the other parties are trying to lambast in an attempt to discredit them. They are far right extremists, stop trying to defend them.

            • @Wanderer@lemm.ee
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              02 months ago

              The average person wants lower immigration plain and simple.

              That’s what reform is largely winning votes on. Something that historically has been a left view.

              They are no where near as bad as everyone makes out. People are trying to paint them as Nazis.

              • Echo Dot
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                2 months ago

                Nigel farage literally (as in he actually did this) posed in front of a poster that was styled on Nazi propaganda. The only people making them out to be Nazis are themselves, they are being Nazis and people are pointing it out, that’s not people defaming them, that’s people pointing out that they are being Nazis. People like you are allow the hard right thrive, the bigots and racists are allowed to exist because apologists like you make excuses for them.

                Please be better. Or if you can’t be better at least stop spreading your uninformed opinions on the internet, no one needs to hear the opinions of a Nazi apologist.

                https://images.app.goo.gl/pL7xhiTGuwQPxKaKA

                Here is a link in case you might want to possibly educate yourself. I recommended it because currently you sound like a tit.

                • @Wanderer@lemm.ee
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                  12 months ago

                  Wow being against uncontrolled immigration is so Nazi.

                  Literally no other person could think immigration should go down for any reason or any amount without being a Nazi.

                  I’m really glad you showed me a photo of someone concerned with immigration when it’s the number one issue in the country. Really proved that, that guy is a Nazi.

                  I do think he’s a dickhead. But Nazis and reform are different.

  • @some_guy
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    722 months ago

    As women gain independence, frightened men turn to patriarchal solutions. Hence a turd like JD Vance spouting hateful and controlling rhetoric on podcasts and Ahole Tate brainwashing adolescent boys. Fuck these people.

    • @AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml
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      12 months ago

      The study about low skill gamers being the most likely to be sexist over voice chat will forever be on my mind.

    • @DancingBear@midwest.social
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      12 months ago

      Young men and young women haven’t been around long enough to have seen anything change like your suggesting. If that were the case it would be older women and men who are changing

    • @snek_boi@lemmy.ml
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      32 months ago

      I wonder if progressive/conservative is what the charts are getting at. Heck, I wonder if we could even put it in terms of Welzel’s Democratic/protection values.

    • ShaunaTheDead
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      -22 months ago

      A better voting system than First Past The Post is proven to create less of a divide between parties and supports either new parties forming, making existing parties more likely to work together on bi-partisan goals, as well as bringing existing parties more towards the center.

      • @DancingBear@midwest.social
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        32 months ago

        So how does corporate oligarchy and unlimited dark money from corporate pacs fit into all this?

        Cable news never really mentions campaign contributions so I guess it’s not newsworthy.

        Nevermind