tl:dr; India is a terrible place to live in, Indians lead miserable lives and are not even aware of it, they are facing many other problems and they are not aware of that too, they are delusional and still stuck in the past. Being born poor in India signs you up for difficult to conquer problems because of the culture you grow up in, Human development happens at the pace of a tortoise here, India is a curse, now how can I get rid of the curse and lead a fulfilling and happy life?
I see the middle class Indians and while their life is better than mine, it’s nothing to write home about. They are doing ok, they are not great and I am lower middle class, even if I try my best, I don’t think I will be rewarded well for that. Indians start life at 0 while other developed countries are at an average of 4, Indians just dream of the 4, they just want that 4! That’s their life, they pursue their life, whole lives, just to get a decent life! I don’t want to do this, this doesn’t excite me! Help! What can I do? P.S: I am a 22yo who is worthless and who has a worthless (0 value) degree from a useless Indian university, how can I improve my life!
If you want to read why I think being born in India is a multi-generational curse, carry on reading, otherwise, this was enough!
- Indian educational system is garbage and it doesn’t create high-value labor, it produces unremarkable individuals.
- Indian infrastructure is a joke with everything built by the government being of the lowest quality.
- Indian is one of most corrupt countries in the world (top 10-20 maybe).
- People are extremely tribal and in the absence of resources for development, Indians will try to barter what little resources there are along community lines (reservations) than force the government to try and create more economic opportunities.
- Private Industry from foreign companies are a sigh of relief but due to above mentioned reasons (low-skilled labor, bad economy, bad infrastructure, stupid policies and Kafkaesque bureaucracy) most companies justifiably don’t want to set up shop in India and this exacerbates the economy problem.
- Indians clamor for Western attention and approval, most of them do realize India is nothing to write home about but they don’t understand the extent of the problem. They are way too proud of minuscule achievements. They are even less aware of how the culture that prevails now will produce nothing but failure. They lose it when anyone of Indian decent does anything noteworthy and they are way too proud to accept the problem. This is the reason why youtubers love to praise India, they know what works in India. The government takes advantage of this and calls everyone who dares to criticize the country or their government as anti-national. Many journalists have been jailed for reporting facts. We never learn and we are committed to never learning! Even when Indians leave India, they try to create a mini-India abroad and not go out of their cultural comfort zone.
- We are creepy! I was creepy, I am a little creepy still, I had to work A LOT to be able to be normal around women, that trope, it’s real and it’s just saddening in the highest degree. Indians don’t socialize with opposite sex a lot and it’s discouraged and sometimes forbidden in this culture to do so, so you create adults who can’t really talk comfortably towards women. Took me a long time to realize the problem and solve it, the past me disgusts the present me!
Edit: 8. Indians lack any kind of civic responsibility. They throw garbage everywhere, they spit pan (tobacco stuff) anywhere and everywhere, open defecation isn’t as big of a problem as people pissing in the streets but it still remains a problem, I have done this too (When I was little). I can’t get my parents to not throw off plastic off the train no matter how much I explain then why it’s wrong in multiple ways! Most Indian cities look like a garbage dumb than a place to live. If people at least had kept our streets clean and acknowledge the problems facing this country instead of being proud of mediocrity, I would have been been more than willing to try to turn things for the better here, but they don’t!!
I can write a book about this, but for the sake of your time and mine, I will stop.
I have realized one thing after being born here, it’s irredeemable! It won’t get drastically better. I just don’t know what to do about it and that is why I am asking you for advice!
Hey! Thank you! that’s gonna come in handy!
There are also some India-specific comms where you may find people who’d commiserate.
You are a gift that keeps on giving, thank you! I will check em out!
On a personal level? Leaving really is the best option. Unless you have a good support network there, you’ll never really be able to get out of the cycle. I’m not Indian but I moved from my similar 3rd world country to a 1st world country. It was hard no doubt, and will probably be a little harder for you depending on the country and how many of your countrymen are trying to get in (i.e. Indians in the US wait a decade or more to get permanent residency). You can also try the education route if you can afford it. Another option as well is moving to maybe another country that doesn’t have to be a top 1st world destination. You can maybe check out southeast asia and see what opportunities are there.
Things change slowly, then all at once. We are currently facing the same problems that Europe, the US, Japan and China faced and overcame.
Also, have you considered moving to a different part of India? Not all regions face the same issues. The northeast is a lot less creepy and a lot more civic-minded. The west is more industrialised and ‘developed’. The south has better educational systems, and so on.
I live in a ok place right now, but no matter where I go, I can’t deny that I am working my ass off just to afford the basic stuff and paying 4 months or more of taxes for nothing much!
For things to change all at once, Indians need to stop deluding themselves into thinking that they are this great country and every problem India faces is due to the outside influence or due to minorities. I don’t see that happening anytime soon. If India knew what the problem was like the Japanese did after the West forced it to open it’s waters for trade long ago, Indians would have stood a chance, but we don’t, we are in a really bad shape and many don’t know that we are in a bad shape and those who know are not focusing on the problem, rather they are focusing on Mughals, Muslims and serveral other external factors, they are not looking inwards.
Just a thought, but several of your anecdotes could describe 19th-century Europe, England in particular. Obviously India today is far more advanced than Victorian England, but still, is it possible that these are just normal growing pains for a country?
Oh yes, it most certainly is, but it is not redeemable in my life time/youth is what I know for sure.
Man, that went a different way than I thought it would. I read the title and was expecting some Scooby-Doo-type shit.
As for your issue, I think you have two choices:
- Emigrate
- Become an activist/politician and work on issues #3 and #8. Fix those, and the rest will follow.
- It is the only option, but I am not sure how, as in, I don’t have great grades and there are millions of Indians waiting to immigrate! It’s a shitshow tbh, a friend went to London for a business degree, still unemployed and stuck in debt! The desperation to get out among people is extremely depressing.
edit: How can one try to get out? Get good really good in their field?
Also, when Indians try to find happiness in mediocrity, we use a phrase, “India is a not for beginners”, Schooby-Doo-typa curse is easy, this shit has expert level difficulty.
Hello friend. Indian American here. My parents immigrated here, and their ticket in was education. I understand your grades aren’t great, and I also acknowledge that my parents did come from middle-to-upper-class privilege.
I work for an IT company who employees (not outsources) individuals in India. Several of them have left India to come to the U.S. or Canada. For all of them, education has always been the way out. They knew they wanted out, so they grinded hard in the short-term, and applied aggressively abroad for graduate-level education.
Find a niche in something that does interest you. It seems you are very socioeconomically aware, consider something in such a realm that makes you stand out (yes, I understand this is easier said than done, especially in a nation of 1.3…1.4? billion).
Saying that, also understand that STEM-related expertise areas are much more sought after. So it might not be a bad idea to focus on that side and/or diversify.
I won’t contest a lot of what you said about India - much of that is accurate. Some of that is more cynical than necessary. But change is slow and it would be wrong of me to tell you to stay and change a nation in a region notoriously resistant to change. Unless you’re the next coming of Barack Obama charisma, in which case, please help change India, hahaha.
You’re young, you have plenty of time. So don’t feel burdened not finding a spark at this era in your life. My Mom immigrated here only after marriage, when she was 28. The coworkers I’ve mentioned have all been in their late 20s or early-to-mid 30s.
I want to add - you’re not worthless. Don’t devalue yourself needlessly based on the decrees of an unfair and unjust society or uncaring peers and family.
Saying that, also understand that STEM-related expertise areas are much more sought after. So it might not be a bad idea to focus on that side and/or diversify.
I tried this, failed once, trying again! :)
You’re young, you have plenty of time. So don’t feel burdened not finding a spark at this era in your life. My Mom immigrated here only after marriage, when she was 28
Thank you very much! I will turn 23 soon, I will try my best to get out and make something of myself and even if I can’t get out, I will try and live meaningfully here (PS: I posted here, because I thought that was very fucking difficult)
Also, thank you very much! I wish you well as you do to me! :)
Take nursing, there more than 2 countries I know that have easy entry if you are trained in nursing. And nursing may require study as well, but if your foundations are weak in Stem specially physics and maths, you can still do nursing. Do nursing and get a job easily in UK, Australia, Singapore, New Zealand, etc. There might be others too that have easy immigration for nursing.
Things change slowly then all at once.
Which is to say, the older generations are very set in their ways, but the new generations can be completely different.
You say you can write a book, maybe you should. Detail all the things you see and don’t like. Give me a voice to the people who think like you.
You say you can write a book, maybe you should
Ohh… I have thought about that, but India is not a country which takes criticism lightly. They will immediately say I am funded by Pakistan, Soros or by the enemies of the state and if the book is even published, it will gain me infamy making me immediately unemployable for anything else. It’s no joke being an author in India.
They have jailed people for reporting on UP schools serving bread with salt and this is not an outlier, journalists are in constant danger here.
edit: Read up the Broadcasters bill, I just read about this and this is 1984 level shit.
I can’t say I know what I’d do if I were in your situation. But many people throughout history have chosen to write those books, and they have suffered for that choice, but they have also driven change.
My Indian friends tell me that Indian people are the most racist people in the world, to other Indians. That’s the biggest problem and why they left. You’re clearly a part of that. A traditional caste system and the usual socioeconomical issues of a large population obviously won’t help. These seem to be the cores of your issues. It’s not your fault, but you shouldn’t participate in that bullshit by saying such things and having such a defeated mindset.
You need to travel. You need to leave.
After you travel, you can self-assess under a more experienced and open perspective. You will likely not want to return, but you will not be hitting the world so jaded and focused on competitive success within society. You will relax, you will get options, you will settle into a comfortable life and in a few years you will complain about the mediocrity of being middle-class instead.
“But I can’t travel.”
Yes you can. You have plenty of skillsets that will earn you more money per hour elsewhere. All the while building up friendships, networks, and experiences. Your only issue is visas which you co-ordinate as you go. For now, much of the western world is very open to Asian immigrants and you’d be foolish to not jump on it while it’s still an option. Target the richer nations with low unemployment rates and you’ll find secure work.
Your main issue will be later when domestic family want part of what you’ve gained. That’s up to you. I have a friend that I found out was giving more than half his income back home because $60K AUD seems huge to people not paying $550 a week in rent. And I’ve also got a friend that, after her father died, threw her middle fingers to family and India vowing to never return.
Your situation is harder to endure than just leaving. But the amount of blame and hate you put on your circumstances makes me wonder if you can even realise that.
But as a white guy with 13 friends from Nepal, India, and Bangladesh, I’d like to think my advice isn’t entirely disregardable, as it’s indirectly from them.
Edit: Ah shit, I forgot that apart from visas your only other issue will be racism. It really depends on the industry and nation, but obviously there will be those anti-immigration even though they don’t realise immigration Is saving their fucking livelihood. Plus, if you talk about India and Indians the way you did In your post, you’ll fit right in with them lol—thats not a good thing long-term, but I guess an odd uptick (???)
Point is, whoever you are, you were born and will die. Go find a place in the world that you’re not miserable in. That’s your current meaning in life.
That’s the biggest problem and why they left. You’re clearly a part of that.
Sorry, I am not racist. I know all this way too well. i.e., The corrupt bureaucrat and the politician who created this system knew all too well what he was doing and he had good personal motivations for it. I myself have put myself in their shoes and their world, and have tried to see what’s working in their mind. I won’t say I am racist, if I am racist I am towards the culture which created this shitshow. But you have good reasons to think that given my post. I am not blaming any ethnically or linguistically different group for where we are, I am blaming the culture. Babies are not born creepy, the culture makes them what they become. The creepy guys I talk about, I am pretty sure they won’t have been creepy in a better culture.
not your fault, but you shouldn’t participate in that bullshit by saying such things and having such a defeated mindset.
Trust me, I once had hope, but this system beats it out of you! This system has failed me multiple times in dire ways. That being said, you are 100% correct, defeatism and resentment, nothing good comes out of them. I am no longer resentful as much as I used to be, I will try to keep that defeatism at bay!
But as a white guy with 13 friends from Nepal, India, and Bangladesh, I’d like to think my advice isn’t entirely disregardable, as it’s indirectly from them.
Trust me, I read it very intently. I will try to follow what you have suggested, I have a few friends abroad (White Native borns), they know and understand me, they will help me get out! :)
, if you talk about India and Indians the way you did In your post, you’ll fit right in with them lol
I don’t blame them tbch, but yeah, I plan on mixing with the non-racist bunch and spending my spare hours in the library if I ever get there! Kudos!
I appreciate the effort and the intention behind your reply, thank you very much for trying to help me!
Sorry. It’s easy for me to say, “Be more positive!” when my feet have never been in your shoes. Sorry if it seemed patronising in any way—its good advice, I’m just bad with choice of words a lot of the time. You seemed to understand my point, though. Perhaps a good (paraphrased) analogy is one I learned in Uganda; don’t use the poisoned well lest it poisons you, lest you poison those that don’t use the well.
And I’d like to remind you that you can do, literally, whatever you want at any time. The only considerations are consequences. You can literally murder the next person you see, in the same way you can just walk off and start your journey. One has consequences of prison lol, but the other… well, who knows?
This mindset has saved my life in hard times. Where everything felt awful. Walking away from it seemed so much more obvious than staying. What’s the worst that could happen? I’m happier? Haha. Yep. Time to just start walking. No plan, no direction, just knowing “I can not do this any more and I won’t be here any more.”
You’ll be surprised how rapidly thing start becoming good when you leave the bad. Don’t doubt yourself. Don’t be in a rut. You’ll never live otherwise.
You seemed to understand my point, though
Very well, you considered a lot of things before you wrote that comment :).
Don’t doubt yourself. Don’t be in a rut. You’ll never live otherwise.
Yes sir! I need to deal with that.
Again, thanks for the well-intentioned comments! :)
Go back in time a prevent the British Empire
Go back in time a prevent the British Empire
I have changed my mind on that really. I mean, yes they bled us dry in terms of money and we could have used that right about now, they destroyed domestic manufacturing, they used as their bank and much more, but it’s a little reductive to think had the British not invaded things would have been great. It might have been better in someways and worse in others. Google the Sati Practice, India was no golden bird before the British invaded and post-British Empire we are responsible for all the failures of our state, Indians love to blame the British, while they were responsible, it’s not very productive to be stuck in the past, Indians blame muslim invaders, Britishers, secularism and many more things for their failure, except of course, themselves and the culture they created!
To be honest, I’m Irish and it seems to me colonialism influences a country to cling to their cultural practices more fiercely. Couple that with massive inter-generational trauma. In the case of Ireland, unfortunately that meant we had a brutal theocracy for decades after the British left.
I think the only reason Ireland is in any way more progressive now is because they let us join the European Union, and they gave us money!
Anyway I think you sound like a great person and the best of luck. I emigrated myself too, to England ironically…
Anyway I think you sound like a great person and the best of luck
Thank you very much! :)
I emigrated myself too, to England ironically…
I kinda like England, the literature, culture, journalists and much more! Apparently things are not as rosy right now, but it’s a wonderful place to be nonetheless, so, you are basically living my dream :')
I know I can’t actually help you, but I have to say, I’m excited for you. You sound like you have carefully thought through your ideas, and concluded “I don’t personally have a future in India”. You are in a tough spot financially, but I can tell you have the fire inside you. You’re going to find a better country to live in, and change your circumstances, like so many Indian ex-pats before you! You can do it.
Really appreciate your post! I had an amazing date with an Indian woman here in Germany, but the guys just seem to not understand the concept of keeping their dicks in their pants.
But you know, it’s a cultural thing and you are a leader in that sense. Hope you realize that. Every time you act it is like a ripple.
I had an amazing date with an Indian woman here in Germany
Yay you!
the guys just seem to not understand the concept of keeping their dicks in their pants.
screams semi-joyfully It’s the curse
I love India and the people from India. I worked in IT for Ford for over 30 years and had a lot of Indian coworkers and traveled to India a few times for work. Like others have said, all of them came over through technology jobs. Unfortunately many companies in the US play the green card game to keep your wages low. Finding a company that will help get your card is very tough. If you can handle the learning for controls engineering, a 2 year degree will get you a good paying job in a lot of the western world helping companies with their automation of production lines. One of my friends who had all the needed skills wanted to come to the US so much but his pronunciation of words was really bad and it was very hard to understand him so he could never get past an initial interview.
But I agree about the current state of India but nationalist leaders are gaining more power and Modi is an example of that. His playing the Hindu and nationalist card over and over again is an example of that. When I’d walk around it was always amazing to see stone and bronze workers doing work that’s been done for hundreds of years along side shops with ISO certification making advanced tooling and micro parts. India is where the Bronze age meets the digital age. I’ve never seen that anywhere else. China is probably the closest but I didn’t see as much technical incongruity on one street like I would in India.
As a worker and many agreed with this view, Indians and many Asians are great at following orders which is what they grew up with, but thinking out of the box was usually a challenge. I believe the freedoms of the west allow people more ability to see things differently and we feel like our view/idea/opinion has value and should be heard because of the differences in the individual. Because of that we’re more willing to contemplate other methods in our own heads about possibilities instead of just doing what rote learning taught and not go against the grain with teachers, bosses, etc. Like you’re finding, seeing what others choose not to see is a challenge. The young are the future and need to stand up for the view of the world they want. It has to start at the local level with enough force to be a regional power. Unfortunately the nationalist have a lot of thugs to do their work and wrack havoc on people trying to bring about change that would challenge those in power and bring more power to the individuals.. If you can handle the learning for controls engineering, a 2 year degree will get you a good paying job in a lot of the western world helping companies with their automation of production lines.
That’s very interesting, thanks for suggestion, I will look it up!
Unfortunately the nationalist have a lot of thugs to do their work and wrack havoc on people trying to bring about change
Haha… I have got personal experience with the goons. The ones who clam to religion the hardest (at least at the local level) seem to be the most morally corrupt. I have had this experience since I was a little kid, the people who wear the most saffron seem to be the least intelligent and empathetic. I had once seen a guy no older than myself at the time hurl rape abuses at a woman under her facebook post and the man was bloody covered in saffron! These fuckers made me lose my love for the color! Ughh…
For Indians, thinking out of a box is a problem because we are punished from straying too far from the line. You have no idea how hard it was for me to protect my curiosity and whatever creative thinking I have, to be removed surgically by our academic system. Even today, I dabble in subjects as diverse as neuroscience, differential geometry, scientific computing and computer graphics. But, I am one of the lucky ones. I have enrolled in an introductory chocolatier course, because chocolate fascinates me. Of course, my real job is that of a software developer. But, it is frustrating to work for companies with no vision beyond find a western client and develop some website/application on a budget. But that is the curse, I guess.
I know I’ll get downvoted, but I want to say this is just the experience of me and my families over generations: moved from India to England. My grandfather and his relations fought under the British Raj, and he worked for the British government in a small job even after the partition, so after a while my grandparents came over to London. My mother did nursing training in India, but at a St. Mary’s boarding school so she was taught by mostly British standards and that made the transition to move to London much easier as well (I was born and raised here).
Your post essentially highlights the elephant in the room, as to why a lot of people immigrate to countries like the US, Canada, or the UK: despite our problems, many people find these countries to be better in terms of, well, many things. You can find pockets of communities here to prevent you feeling too homesick as well, such as Southall which many (including myself) call “little India”.
Maybe look at options for if you can aim towards a field of employment that would provide you with the skills required to get a VISA to a place with (in your personal view) a better quality of life. If you have the time and dedication, programming and various IT fields have often been successful with this however I can imagine there being a lot of competition. Perhaps someone else could recommend a better field.
These are not really Indian issues but poor people issues. Social mobility is a tough thing. If you’re born poor, you stay poor in most places. If your born rich you can stay rich or become poor. If you’re middle class you’ll probably end up poor unless you are relatively lucky with the way inflation and capitalism works.
If you want to “escape India” for better chances, just get to Dubai and start over. You’ll earn more and can start planning for later.
If you want to “escape India” for better chances, just get to Dubai
I am anti-theist but have a hindu name, do you think that would hurt my chances? Also, what do you think about the government there, free-speech and all those nice things? (I am ok with not having these as long as the system is fair and I won’t be persecuted. Also, I have a said a lot of anti-religious stuff in the past, I don’t believe that anymore, would this cause any problem?)
Don’t get me wrong, I would break a leg to get there, but I am just wondering what I should do before I reach there. I kinda admire the rulers of Dubai, you have absolute power and you have created a wonderful place for everyone of your citizen instead of creating a dictatorship, that’s admirable.
Dude, Dubai is more progressive than most of the USA or UK. Don’t believe the media.
I live all over the world, but also have residency there as a registered atheist. Nicest people you’ll ever meet.
It’s 90% expats. And a huge Indian population. If you want to live like in India, you can. If you want to live like in the UK, you can. You have freedom of choice far superior to any other country in the world.
Cheers, I have many friends over there (as laborers mostly), but I will try, upskill and try to get there.
Nothing good will come to me unless I leave India, the pain of living in India is a meaningless pain, almost nothing good comes out of this pain! Thank you very much!
A lot of these problems used to be widespread in the West, too. Littering was still ubiquitous into the 70’s, at the edge of living memory you have all kinds of ethnic rent seeking and corruption, and sanitation was a huge problem in the 19th century. Stick with democracy and give it a a lifetime or two (change is hard, I’m sorry).
Even when Indians leave India, they try to create a mini-India abroad and not go out of their cultural comfort zone.
That’s not my experience in Canada. All immigrant communities tend to stick together, just for the familiarity, but I’d say Indians are are more comfortable interacting with other groups than average. It’s probably because India itself is so diverse.
Well… You’ve been dealt a bad hand and I’m not sure how to help you. You can do the IT career path via educating yourself but that’s not easy. It’s hard to cut yourself above the rest although it’s possible.
First thing you could do though is to accept things for how they are. People are going to throw trash until someone with authority will tell them it’s wrong and then you’ll need a generation for the change to happen.
You’ll not be able to fix India by yourself and I’m not sure if anyone can but over time things will slowly get better. Emigrating is an option, although hard and going into politics can work but that’s even harder.
But honestly, I feel like this is all things you already know. These are my completely useless two cents.
dealt a bad hand
I need to read Man’s search for meaning. Ughh… sorry, that came out of nowhere, what I meant was, I need to know how to deal with things when I have been clearly dealt a bad hand by reading the work of a man who had the least reasons to see hope!
These are my completely useless two cents.
Trust me, just the acknowledgement of adversity of another helps (as long as the victim tries to acknowledge/accept the reality and work hard on improving it rather than drowning in their own miseries and the pleasures of being a victim)
For sure, realising your situation for what it is is an advantage. It sounds like you’re the type of person to get an advantage out of it. Like for example strategic land buying in India if you have the money can make you relatively wealthy over time. I want to say money isn’t everything but given I’m from Europe I feel like my opinion doesn’t apply.
Either way, I’m sure you will at the bare minimum have an average life given how much aware you are so you got that going. Best of luck man
