Former democratic party activists are organizing Muslims and Arab-Americans in Swing states to vote against Biden with the demand that he support a ceasefire in Gaza.
I’ll allow them a little bit of electoralism this time.
Former democratic party activists are organizing Muslims and Arab-Americans in Swing states to vote against Biden with the demand that he support a ceasefire in Gaza.
I’ll allow them a little bit of electoralism this time.
I’m not going to defend Biden or dems in general, but part of your point that I want to address directly is this:
While he and other dems are “unwilling to stand”, they are also not actively working against those or certain other causes. If everyone who believes in these causes chooses to not vote because they’re not being addressed, republicans will win and do their damndest to stomp all over marginalized groups even more. This is why I vote (against them).
Oppose him verbally, sure. But that has no effect, and actually sometimes emboldens him and other R’s as they do stuff to “own the libs”. Why is opposing him like this good, but opposing him with my vote bad?
I think my stumbling block in trying to understand this POV is that I do believe there is inherently a difference between voting for someone and voting against someone else. I’d rather not freely cede anything to those I consider to be worse. I understand you may see the outcome as “the same” and for some people, it is. But I do believe that there are people where a difference between the parties exists and is important in their lives.
To address your last point, I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything, certainly not against their conscience. I’m trying to understand why walking away from elections is (or at least seems to be) the general consensus amongst this community.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Why did you zoom in on the “completely unwilling to stand for abortion right, trans rights, and debt forgiveness” part, but completely ignore the “Biden has Trump beat on deportations, police funding, military funding” part? BIDEN IS DOING his damndest to stomp all over marginalized groups, even more then Trump when it comes to those specific areas of contention
Also not being willing to stand up to republicans in terms of abortion rights IS the same thing as “actively working against those or certain other causes”, in fact false alliance is worse than outright hostility, because it confuses and disarms marginalized people who look for allies
Really? An entire country with every liberal and leftist org united against Trump and the only opposition would be verbal? And I thought I was a doomer
Because your vote strengthens the Ratchet Effect, as we’ve seen with Biden’s rightward shift
If the person you’re voting FOR is doing the same or worse things than the person you’re voting AGAINST, then your politics are frankly incoherent and insincere, and you’ll end up valuing the lives of certain people over the lives of others, and at that point you might as well just become a republican
I didn’t ignore it to be purposefully obtuse or willfully ignorant. Sorry if it came off that way. Perhaps I should have addressed that specifically; poor communication on my part. Also I know I’ve said it somewhere/elsewhere in the thread, but I’m not here to defend Biden or the Dems.
The reason I didn’t address that part directly is because I agree with your assessment and conclusion on those matters. I focused on the other parts because I see those as part of the few differentiators between the parties.
This is an interesting point and one I’ll carry with me. Thanks.
I mean, what happened last time? We spent four years screaming about all the bullshit he and his allies (and/or those that saw his shitstorm as useful cover for their own agenda) and what was the effect? I really believe it was harmful even; emboldening him, his allies, and the next wave of republicans emulating his style on the national stage.
We can have a doomer-measuring contest if that’s what you’re into :)
I’ve never heard that phrase, usually heard it called “shifting the overton window” but I do like the graphic. I guess it places more focus on the action and actors than the nebulous “general political climate”.
So, with our ratchet, isn’t it helpful to stop turning the crank? Isn’t it worthwhile to cast a ballot or two if it keeps from moving a notch?
I’d also add that I’m not saying casting a vote is the only action to take – and I’m not saying that you’re saying this about my position, either. But I’m picking up the impression throughout this thread that maybe folks think I’m only in favor voting and no additional action, which is not the case. Anyway, just something I thought I’d clarify.
Maybe this is where the disconnect is. In the sum total, I see one pile of shit to be slightly smaller than the other. That’s part of why I focused on the differentiating aspects between the parties that you mentioned.