- cross-posted to:
- news@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- news@beehaw.org
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MSNBC journalist Mehdi Hasan has covered israeli government and military officials genocidal statements in his show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u6-BymtuZI&t=7m56s
And I have verified those statements (because some people want to pretend they were never said): This right-wing extremist israeli government is dedicated to expelling or killing all those civilians and taking their land.
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That’s why the Israeli government on the official Twiter account of the Knesset says that they are fighting ‘human animals’ (נלחמים בחיות אדם)
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That’s why the Israeli minster of heritage is posting on his Facebook account that he wants to ‘blow up and flatten everything’ in Gaza and give the land to the ‘israeli fighters’.
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That’s why the israeli Likud MP Tally Gotliv is posting on her Twitter account that she wants to use the ‘Jericho’-missiles (israels nuclear missiles) on Gaza, eradicating it with this ‘doomsday weapon’ (“נשק יום הדין”)
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This is why Giora Eiland, a former IDF general, writes in his english op-ed on ynet that
Israel needs to create a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, compelling tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands to seek refuge in Egypt or the Gulf.
They are so openly and brazenly calling for war crimes and genocidal actions, like holy fuck. And unlike Hamas, they do have the means to achieve what they are calling for.
Oh and just in:
That’s the kind of stuff Putin did (and does) before he invaded Ukraine (doesn’t matter if you count 2014 or 2022, he did it every time).
This is frightening and definitely worth looking into.
It’s typical right-wing party shit, lately. Putin, Orban, Lukashenko, Erdogan, they all keep doing this. Now Netanjahu chimes in.
Gee, I wonder what he may up to.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=6u6-BymtuZI&t=7m56s
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
The Endlösung of the Palestinian question.
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“population transfer” Is a very strong euphemism for genocide and mass displacement.
Yeah. For those who don’t know that we have defined these things: mass displacement is a literal warcrime https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v2/rule129
And the conditions that seek to create this mass displacement can be considered genocidal.
Every country commissions these stratagram documents for different scenarios. It’s not surprising that Israeli government does the same. These documents are usually held quite secret, because they’re inflammatory, they go through many different scenarios, many of which are politically unpalatable.
What’s really interesting, is that this document was released now. Almost like it’s socializing the concept, testing the waters before the plan is committed with its allies.
And of that document option c appears to be being implemented right now in front of us.
Is the document genuine? Probably, I’ve seen sources from Canada Israel and other parties saying the document has been acknowledged by their sources.
Is the document itself a cause for concern? No.
Are the actions we’re seeing in real time, and the timing of the release of the document concerning? Very much so.
Everything hinges on Egypt’s cooperation. And I don’t know how Israel is going to compel that.
Is the document itself a cause for concern? No.
I disagree, heavily.
Every country commissions these stratagram documents for different scenarios.
But this document is an official israeli government document discussing something that is not just ’ politically unpalatable’. It is describing and discussing a literal warcrime: https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v2/rule129
So
Is the document itself a cause for concern?
Is a solid fuckin yes. That, in itself, is already the story. The israeli government internally creates scenarios to commit warcrimes. But that israeli government officials openly advocate for warcrimes or genocidal actions is even worse, because it means they really want to do that, and only strong outside pressure from their western allies might prevent this.
Don’t pretend like this is “just theoretical”. Because this just happend:
I agree with your point.
So I don’t want us to get stuck down in the semantic weeds, but I promise you every government has strategic documents going through different scenarios, including the usefulness of war crimes to achieve goals.
I.e. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_color-coded_war_plans
but I promise you every government has strategic documents going through different scenarios, including the usefulness of war crimes to achieve goals.
I disagree here. I cannot prove it, but I can give you my honest informed opinion: I know that there are governments that do not stoop to that level. Sometimes, a country gets a government that does this, but then it gets another government that is more civilized and moral and scraps all this.
There are governments and people leading these governments that are actually committed to not do these things.
I disagree here. I cannot prove it, but I can give you my honest informed opinion: I know that there are governments that do not stoop to that level.
Based on what?
Based on ‘I’m a military government official of my country’.
Maybe we’re watching a constructed drama unfold in real time?
Bombings for a couple weeks, escalate the humanitarian situation, have Egypt come in saying oh we’ll take care of the refugees. But make them look reluctant about it. Even though they’re getting some compensation on the other side. Then open the border while continuing the bombing. To get as many civilians to run out of the territory as quickly as possible.
Could be
Bombings for a couple weeks, escalate the humanitarian situation, have Egypt come in saying oh we’ll take care of the refugees. But make them look reluctant about it. Even though they’re getting some compensation on the other side. Then open the border while continuing the bombing. To get as many civilians to run out of the territory as quickly as possible.
That’s literally what former IDF general Giora Eiland is calling for in his op-ed: https://www.ynetnews.com/article/sju3uabba
Israel issued a stern warning to Egypt and made it clear that it would not permit humanitarian aid from Egypt to enter Gaza. Israel needs to create a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, compelling tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands to seek refuge in Egypt or the Gulf.
It’s still a warcrime, though: https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v2/rule129
And the conditions he wants to create are enough that one might consider them genocidal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention
Egypt is reluctant because Palestinians refugees have caused trouble before in their country, the economy isn’t doing well and they have high unemployment at the moment—that’s three good reasons to be reluctant that make sense.
Ya. The CIA has had everything from assassinations to drugs in the water for large populations. They even did those things as well. Things can get dark when you focus on protection of your said country and assume the worse of your enemy imagined and real.
Some of the documents can be kind of interesting and fun: I’m sure Denmark has a plan to repel a Canadian invasion of Greenland.
And I’m sure Canada has a plan on invading Greenland, if it should become necessary… Critical ice purposes
The US media will ignore this blatant call for ethnic cleansing and paint Israel as the good guys in this. The mask has come off the West’s colonialist support for this racist apartheid state.
It’s been off
This is a continuation of the ethnic cleansing that Israel has carried out for the past 70 years. No big surprise.
Israel has roughly 2.000.000 Arabian citizens. They descent from 156.000 Arabs who stayed in Israel after 1948. This must be the least successful ethnic cleansing of all time!
Yes, you can cleanse minorities outside of your country while not harming another minority at home. Glad that we got that covered.
Indeed.
And also, being less efficient or succesful at ethnic cleansing compared to other (historic) ethnic cleansings doesn’t somehow make it OK.
The number of Albanians in Kosovo has also grown and the number killed wasn’t “huge” compared to the Holocaust or Holodomor or Armenian genocide.
But it was still a genocide and still wrong.
One can also pretty easily outmaneuver OP: If it isn’t supposed to be a cleansing, why isn’t Israel letting these people leave Gaza towards Israel to live as part of the arab population? Why are they blocked from becoming israeli citizens, even if they wished for it?
Oh, also: Did you know that in order to become an Israeli citizen, you must acknowledge that Jerusalem belongs to Israel?
Or even better, why aren’t they even allowed to marry Israeli citizens and live in Israel on that basis?
This is some real, literal apartheid segregation shit.
Theoretically sure, but the discrepancy makes it problematic to speak of of ethnic cleansing in this case. If you steal land for the purpose of getting land, you’re probably still committing a crime, but it’s not ethnic cleansing because the intend is something different. E.g. greed or the desire to ensure your safety by holding a strategic position (that’s why Israel took the Golan heights).
The Palestinian population has similar numbers. Their growth exploded over the last 70 years to present day numbers. Worst genocide ever.
You may want to look up what a genocide is. It definitely does not require the complete extermination of a people, even by the self serving UN definition.
What an idiotic comment. It’s like saying the Armenian genocide didn’t happen because there are more Armenians now than before.
And the population of the Uyghurs was rapidly on the rise until just a few years ago - especially compared to the Han-Chinese population. That is not an ethnic cleansing as well then, right?
Well given that there were 700000 Arabs who had to flee out of fear of getting murdered (or because they were directly ordered to flee by the IDF’s predecessors), I’d say they were pretty successful.
That’s some interesting revisionist history. They were told they’d be able to return after the surrounding nations destroyed the newly formed Israel… that backfired and the surrounding nations refused to take on the refugees they created. Womp womp.
That’s the find out part that comes after fucking around. Seems like that lesson wasn’t learned so they’re back for more. Sucks for all the people who just want peace.
They were told they’d be able to return after the surrounding nations destroyed the newly formed Israel… that backfired and the surrounding nations refused to take on the refugees they created.
So you’re saying Israel did not massacre or expel Palestinians? I suggest reading Benny Morris (a Zionist Israeli historians)'s four-stage analysis of the Palestinian diaspora. Hint: Most of them were fleeing for their lives or actively ordered to flee by the IDF’s predecessors, as I said above.
I’m not saying a war didn’t happen. Both sides were displaced and communities attacked from north to south by both.
What I’m saying is many Arabs, hundreds of thousands of them left willingly and under the direction of the surrounding Arab Nations under the promise of being able to return once Israel was destroyed.
It’s not Israel’s fault they’re still waiting. Many Arabs who didn’t leave, still live there in peace accounting for nearly 20% of the country’s population.
Had they not left, had Israel not been attacked by 5 countries at once kicking off generations of warring, who knows if we would have seen peace. The Israelis were open to the partition plan, it’s the Arabs that weren’t and that’s the unfortunate reality they’ve left Palestinians with ever since.
What I’m saying is many Arabs, hundreds of thousands of them left willingly and under the direction of the surrounding Arab Nations under the promise of being able to return once Israel was destroyed.
It’s not Israel’s fault they’re still waiting. Many Arabs who didn’t leave, still live there in peace accounting for nearly 20% of the country’s population.
Are you even reading what I said? Most of these people left because they either (rightly given the sheer number of massacres) feared for their lives or were actively expelled.
Away with your logic, here we are convinced that Israel is literally Hitler.
The same way the Turks tried with the Armenians in ww1?
Yes. The same way the nazis did it, the same way Russia did it in Ukraine, the same way many other authoritarians and fascists did it. I’m failing to see the point of mentioning it though. Forced displacement is a violant of international law no matter who does it.
I just wanted to be sure we have similar views on it
Dont forget Indonesia
were they mostly successful?
Depends on your PoV. Up to 1.5 million Armenians out of up to 2.1 million died.
Israel is in Asia and not in Europe.
Egypt is not going to allow this. The simple fact of the matter is that Hamaz is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, which are openly hostile to the current Egyptian government. So the killing is going to continue.
Yes, Israel is in Asia, what’s with that?
you posted this in the europe community
There have been countless Israel posts on here. Also the extra activity on here can’t hurt. Why does the presence of this post bother you? Just scroll over it
removed by mod
Why are you being so aggressive
Archive link: https://archive.ph/8aTn0
The existence of the document does not necessarily indicate that its recommendations are being considered by Israel’s defense establishment. Despite its name, the Intelligence Ministry is not directly responsible for any intelligence body, but rather independently prepares studies and policy papers that are distributed to the Israeli government and security agencies for review, but are not binding.
So what
