Hello comrades. I wanted to introduce myself since I got an account here recently. I was lurking here for some years now and now decided to join the conversation. I actually don‘t engage with social media if it wasn‘t work or school related(aside of youtube if you count that, though I never left even as little as a comment.) So I will probably be not as activ as others.
I was beginning to be radicalised on youtube first by second thought with the video „you might be a socialist“. Though I was became sceptikal a while after, because I thought that socialism to good to be true, because it (and Communism) seemingly is going solve every problem and if something is to solve everything, it‘s usually a grift like a cult or, to give a more relevant example, a product sold by billonaires, like AI. Though I also didn‘t dismissed.
What eventually did fully radicalised me was israel.
It wasn‘t the violence, because that didn‘t come through the filters of my past media-diet, altleast not enough to radicalise. It wasn‘t the political scene of israel, because I was trained to excuse corrupt politicians as mere bad apples, it was the attitude of the common israeli. I saw a video of how they acted and was utterly disgusted and enraged. I still remember how one israeli made fun of the Palestiains lack of access to water and other calling Palestiain victims that have been filmed „crisis actors“ and many slurs. In the next few days I lost trust in every institution, news organisation, goverment or public person who supported israel. This was also because from that point onward I majorly change my media diet. I sometimes still look into the liberal news that I used to follow, though with the understanding that they lie to me and was just looking into how they try to spin current events and what liberals now think.
Through that changed media diet I landed here and learned a lot. Though for years I merely lurked, because this is practically my first social media account. Now I have some questions I want answers to, like how to radicalise ones close peers like parents. (It‘s difficult for me to know how to radicalise them, because I am autistic and therefor am not good at social stuff. I had limited sucess with my mother, because sometimes she likes to disengage with politics and said she is concerned that I will join something akin to the german RAF (I live in germany). Though that last comment was from a while ago. But she also capable of admitting when she was wrong, for example she admitted that what israel does is genocide, after she dismissed it when I said it is genocide months prior. She also thought that there were many jobs open, because the news constantly said they need workers, until she trying to get a job were she changed her mind on that topic drastically. Also I have conviced her that Zelensky has made tweets praising israel and by then despised israel too. I was also surprised when I saw she was reading a book titled „Drei Frauen träumten vom Sozialismus“(Three woman dreamed of socialism). Though I don‘t know the exact nature of the book. So I don‘t know what her thoughts on socialism are.) I also don‘t know any organisations that are worthwhile to join that are in my area(northwest of hamburg and maybe hamburg itself though it will take while to get there). So some suggetions would be nice.
I have some other questions, but don‘t know how formulate them well. I might ask them later when I know how and maybe I will make dedicated post for the other two questions with more information for better answers.
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This is a late comment, but I wanted to say that, because of the recommendations, I started to read the stuff on (https://lemmygrad.ml/post/10744432). Well, started to listen to it via the audiobooks while I work. I am currently at lenins works on Imperialism. It‘s not always easy, I definitly have to relisten the stuff about dialectical materialism vs idealism and metaphysics. I don‘t think I could explain it, which is usally the indicator, that I don’t fully grasp it.
Welcome comrade, glad to have you here!
One important piece of advice that i got when i was younger is to focus your energy where it can achieve the biggest results. This means to go first to the people who you know will be more susceptible to the socialist viewpoint because of their lived experience of marginalization, their socio-economic status, etc. Sometimes family is not necessarily the ideal target for your efforts.
The ideal target are people who will be open to subsequently joining an org and going on to educate and convince others just like you did. If you simply convince someone of your viewpoint who will not do anything except say “you were right”, your effort will have been poorly spent. I know it feels good to have the people closest to you agree with you but pure agreement is not what we are looking for. We are looking to motivate people to action. People who will get politically engaged and start to organize alongside us.
I also agree with what the other comrade’s response said: it is just as important that you continue to educate yourself as it is to try to convince others. To the best of your ability, never stop learning. And here my advice is to read not just Marxist-Leninist theory but also history and science and everything that can help give you a better understanding of the world, because only through that understanding can we form correct ideas how to go about changing it for the better. That knowledge in turn will also make you better at formulating convincing arguments.
The last paragraph is so true. One of the things that Lenin said that stuck the most with me was this: “You can become a Communist only when you enrich your mind with a knowledge of all the treasures created by mankind.”
Well luckliy my mother is the least politically engaged. The Rest of my family is much more engaged in politics. But this makes them also harder to radicalized. Also my mother is the most avaliable to me, because we live in the same house and therefore I have daily oppertunities to radicalize after we watch the news together. I have to plan a bit if I want to see my father because it takes around from home to him, though less from work to him. He became more politically involved after the first trump presidency, became he learned that he can‘t just sit idly by while the world gets worse, so he became more activ by
joining the democrats abroad, so americans living in germany vote in the american elections.
For context I am a german-american and he was born in ohio. Luckily he is (for germany and the USA admittedly) progressive and has made his disappointments with the democrats clear multiple times, but while he had lost a lot of faith in the systems, there are somethings he still believes in, like he clings on the fact that nixion was pratically impeached, so he thinks it can be done again. This I know with certainty, because that what he directly told me after I questioned if voting is the best course of action to change the world. Sadliy I don‘t know enough about nixion under a socialist lens to properly challenge that believe and don‘t know where to find that information. Though I can atleast say he agrees with me on a number of things that are class-conscious even if he doesn‘t know it. I also told him Greta Thunberg is a communist and he barly reacted. No „That just what the conseratives say“ and no „No kidding?“ which he say if he is in disbelive, just seemingliy quiet acceptance(Though I‘m bad at social stuff, so I could be wrong.). A few minutes later he even pratically said he would be proud if I walked in thunbergs footsteps. So I don‘t know his view of communism/socialism.
The problem with radicalizing my siblings is they are far away from me, as in a whole day worth of driving on a train, so online is often the only way to comunicate. My sister has actually a palestinian friend that she met abroad, so she knew much earlier how bad israel is with a first-hand account(and I should have listen more to her, my bad). She also is often involved in protest including protest against israel. It also does help she is queer. Unfortunately she is studying politics/social-science in a german university. So she might get a lot of advanced propaganda from these courses, but students can be somewhat radical at times. But I don‘t have high hopes for my brother. Because he can be the most stubborn, we had a sometimes difficult relationship throughout most of our childhood (partly because of that stubborness and sometimes being overbearing) and he works for a major german newspaper as an AI expert. With major I mean they have a tenth of the weekly readership of Der Spiegel. So I have to sometimes go against his claims. Luckliy he is the most busy and therefor often not avaliable. I am want to convince my family for a couple reasons, like:
- my parents are currently strongly support me finically, because my career plans went up in flames a year and a half ago. So to be more politically bold(like joining a communist org), I don‘t want get into conflict of what is functionally my support system.
- I actually had a pretty decent childhood, so I have good relationships with all of them, even my brother(the relationship between him and me improved drastically after I became an adult). So I don‘t want potentially alienated them.
- They are for me the easiest to radicalised, because they are quick to forgive even if I made a bad argument and I almost don‘t know anybody else, because i‘m bad at making connections and I recently changed my work environment.(This also why I asked for recommendations for orgs that are worthwhile, so that find likeminded people) I try to convince the people that are the easiest for me to convince, so that I hone my radicalisation skills, before I try to change the minds of strangers.
What I definitly could is resources on how to have good retoric in general, how to improve critical thinking and how to do research. I will definitly read Blackshirts and Reds as has been recommend to me in the comments.
(P.S. This is functionally the first time I used social media, so I don‘t know how much is to much information or what is to little information. Some general feedback would be nice.)
I don‘t want get into conflict of what is functionally my support system.
I understand. That is why i said that starting with your family may not necessarily be the best idea.
I try to convince the people that are the easiest for me to convince, so that I hone my radicalisation skills, before I try to change the minds of strangers.
Closest to you does not always mean easiest to convince. If you strike out while trying to convince someone like, say, a random person on the street while handing out flyers for your org, then the consequences are usually negligible.
It always gets more complicated when close personal relationships are involved. I’m not saying don’t try it, just be aware that it is not the easiest to balance politics with familial relationships.
In general the best thing to do is join an org, like a party or your workplace union (if there is one). This lets you learn from people with more experience. If you live in Germany and are still relatively young i would recommend looking into joining the SDAJ for example.
Is 27 years old „relatively young“?
Hello
Hello comrade and welcome. I would very much like to give you some guidance on radicalizing, but I don’t have the time now.
I would say the most important things to remember are to not be forceful, don’t argue semantics, don’t try to answer everything, and expect you won’t convince anyone.
Liberal views are hard-wired to most people and are part of their identity. You don’t want to be forceful, because that will just put them on defensive mode and they won’t want to engage with you intellectually anymore.
Don’t argue semantics means stay on point and don’t go into long hypothetical discussions or get carried away by long debates on the meaning of words. That just turns any conversation into pointless futility.
Don’t try to answer everything and be right on every point. You don’t have every answer and it’s OK to admit that. Doing otherwise just makes you seem arrogant and makes the other person mistrust what you will tell them in the future. It just turns on defenses instead of engaging them.
Challenging someone’s core beliefs on how the world works is not easy. And it never works immediately. Plant the thought, let them think about it on their own. It might take hold and inspire them to look further. Or it might not. Don’t be frustrated if they don’t seem convinced. That’s always how people react at first. Your journey took months. Theirs can take even longer.
Other than this advice, I’d suggest these two excellent comments:
On radicalizing people: https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/8661533
On convincing people that Israel is committing a genocide and how to use that as a tool for radicalization: https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/8501777
I would also suggest you educate yourself further on Marxism. It is a valuable tool on understanding what is happening in the world right now, and why it is happening. Maybe don’t start right away with Marx, as his writing is dense and technical. Lenin’s Imperialism is a pretty good introductory book. Also Parenti’s Blackshirts and Reds might be interesting for you. You can find them online for free (on prolewiki.org or marxists.org
Welcome Comrade. Seconding this, and of course, learning.
I also got radicalized from the Gaza holocaust…
I was previously a democratic socialist and since Oct 7th I’ve gone from a libertarian socialist, to a anarchist, to a Anarcho syndicalist, to a syndicalist, to a socialist, to a Marxist, to a council communist, and finally to a Marxist-Leninist which has obviously stayed sound and will continue to stay sound for the rest of my life as after actually learning the dialectical materialist method it is impossible to not see the world through that scientific lens.
My ideology didn’t actually change really much at all I’ve just shifted labels as i learned more but I’ve always sorta held the same views for most of my life at least the broader ones. Learning about the DPRK is really what truly solidified my ideology combined with the rapid soft power rise of China in the past few years. I think the only reason I used those other ideology labels in the past is just because I was trying to sanitize it and make it “palatable” since basically everyone I knew were either self proclaimed anarchists at best but most often on the broad spectrum of liberalism. So some obscure left-wing ideology from a HOI4 mod tends to raise less questions than saying you’re a communist in this godforsaken settler colony.
I am curious what your political stance is at the moment, but if I am guessing right, you are at least sympathetic to the idea of communism?
Well, let me put it this way: before my Radicalisation I sometimes didn‘t feel like I had made my final steps into adulthood. There was still a lingering feeling that I‘m still a child, not understanding the world because of how politics have changed. I often still felt like a little kid watching the news not understanding what was going on, even though I understood everything that was said. There many unexplainable things, like how in gods name did trump geht elected or why was everything progressively getting worse. But after I got a different, socialist/communist perspective everything started to click in place. Now I can explain why things are as they are or atleast find people or places that can explain satisfactorily. Like I imagend when I was young I could do. I now feel truly adult. Too bad it also came with a bunch of hard lessons, that can be roughly be summarised as „Hey, you know how things have gotten really, incredibly bad? Well actually their were MUCH worse and have been so for centuries.“ It is a bit suprising and really sad that I am less ashamed of the history of one of my country of origin that had the literal nazies, though germany has also gotten much worse in my eyes. That being said I don‘t think I can go back to liberalism. Because I have doubted myself and reanalysed my old beliefs and my new beliefs, but I always came to the conclusion that my old liberal beliefs do not make a lick of sense, are too shallow or are based on false truisms. They just seem childish now. So no matter how uncomfortable, sad and angry it sometimes makes me, I would call myself a communist now. Though admittedly on how to properly think like one, for example through material analysis, I still have much to learn.
I agree with how shallow liberal analysis seems after becoming a communist (reflecting on how I used to believe in liberal perspectives without questioning them makes me think of how widespread and strong liberal propaganda is). I also have a lot to learn as well!
Hello and Welcome. 🫂
I know this is a few days old, but you are asking how to radicalize others - I like the other poster’s suggestion that your primary goal is to educate yourself. Here’s another thing that might help:
While our goal is to radicalize the worldwide working class so that we can create a meaningful change, I want to recommend that in your head to reframe your goal as education. Sometimes, as with Palestine or Ukraine, that will be as simple as finding a history written from a “leftist perspective” (anything not polluted by bourgeois ideology…), but just as often the education that is needed is providing an analysis that adequately analyzes the systems (i.e., capitalism) and economic, social, and political interactions at play.
You’re never trying to trick anyone, or to make ‘your team’ win. My suggestion is to prioritize learning Marxism-Leninism, learn about the Chinese system, learn about the excesses of Western imperialism, and find accurate descriptions of these systems and of past historical events. People all over the world question why this world works the way that it does, and Communists using dialectical materialism and historical materialism are the best equipped to answer those questions.
Sometimes answering a simple question about this-or-that group’s motivation is all that you need to do. Other times, someone will appreciate your perspective enough to ask you the basis for your analysis - at these times, you can tell them that the tradition of Communism is in many regards the foundation of an analytical framework, and that you have studied it.
Learn, learn, learn. The world is made up of confusing dynamics, enraging events, and tragedies. There are ways to make sense of these things. When we adequately apply what we have learned, we can stop our comrades from falling victim to racial animus, national rivalries, occult thinking… But only if we ourselves study.
