voting for Kamala Harris was objectively better than abstaining or voting third party
It objectively was
I guess if you’re one of the privileged managerial class in a major city, that’s true. (For the record that describes me, and my personal situation probably would be much better inse a Harris administration)
For most people the differences are a lot less stark.
Or are we pretending that ICE appeared from a misty portal on the morning of 1/20/25?
That Harris wasn’t beating the war drums with Iran and campaigning to Trump’s right on immigration?
That there was ever any chance a Dem administration was going to hold Trump and his enablers accountable for their actions?
Bcs if you’re judging Democrats by their rhetoric instead of by their record, then you’re not a serious adult worth having this conversation with.
I guess if you’re one of the privileged managerial class in a major city, that’s true.
If that’s you, you’re one of the least affected, not most.
Or are we pretending that ICE appeared from a misty portal on the morning of 1/20/25?
No, but their current actions did, at least at this scale.
That Harris wasn’t beating the war drums with Iran and campaigning to Trump’s right on immigration?
When did that happen?
if you’re judging Democrats by their rhetoric instead of by their record, then you’re not a serious adult worth having this conversation with.
I don’t care about their rhetoric, but if you can’t see the difference between their record and the Republicans, you’re not a serious adult worth having this conversation with. Both sides are obviously bad, but equally obviously not equally bad.
If that’s you, you’re one of the least affected, not most.
The people who couldn’t afford life under Biden aren’t doing any better or worse really under Trump. It’s the people who could happily ignore the crushing poverty that Neoliberal Austerity was inflicting on an ever growing portion of the population who are now suddenly experiencing the shock of the tactics of control developed in the colonies being used in the Imperial Core. Everyone who lectured BLM about how terrible it was to say “Defund the Police” suddenly is in the cross hairs and desperate to defund (the one group that threatens them from) the police.
No, but their current actions did, at least at this scale.
No. The only thing new is that the same billionaire owned media that never made a peep about it is suddenly putting it in your face. Trunp is so desperate to get the number of daily ICE deportations up because he’s not on pace to even match Obama’s numbers and it’s really pissing him off
When did that happen
Throughout the entire 2024 campaign. Representative examples below.
don’t care about their rhetoric, but if you can’t see the difference between their record and the Republicans, you’re not a serious adult worth having this conversation with
Strike the word “can’t” and the sentence above becomes accurate. Both parties love war, hate working people, and use minorities as political footballs to keep the peasants from revolting. You just have a preference for which flavor of capitalist puppet you like to see on TV. And that’s fine but don’t go moralizing about your preference if you’re not willing to actually get into the weeds on their records. And the Democrats’ records are just as horrible as the GOPs, if you don’t consider “saying the slurs on TV instead of keeping them in the back rooms like Kennedy intended” to be a worse failing than Strike Busting, austerity policy, and massive giveaway from the public treasury to private interests.
The only thing new is that the same billionaire owned media that never made a peep about it is suddenly putting it in your face
No, these tactics are new, some of the camps are literally new.
Throughout the entire 2024 campaign.
There’s a stark difference between “Iran is an adversary” and “Bomb Iran”.
Strike the word “can’t” and the sentence above becomes accurate.
Again, wrong. Yes they’re both bad, yes they both engage in some of the same terrible things, but there are still differences. Until we have the organization to replace one of the two, we have to focus on those differences. Once we actually have the numbers and organization to do something different, I’m all for it. Until then, bOtH SiDeS is an outrageously privileged cope.
No, these tactics are new, some of the camps are literally new.
These tactics aren’t remotely new. It’s the same tactics that have been used on communities of color, left wing agitatorsz and queers who wouldn’t stay safely closeted for 100 years.
Only “some” of the camps are new. Hmmm… Now why would thete be old ones if Trump is a new and unique kind of villain?
There’s a stark difference between “Iran is an adversary” and “Bomb Iran”.
Yeah. It’s the difference between being a candidate and being the President.
Or are you genuinely saying that you think Dems don’t start wars just as quickly and easily as Republicans?
Until we have the organization to replace one of the two, we have to focus on those differences.
That’s exactly backwards. As long as they can convince you there’s any substance to those differences without actually having to do anything that will piss off their Wall St paymasters, you will never be able to organize to replace either of the two.
These tactics aren’t remotely new. It’s the same tactics that have been used on communities of color, left wing agitatorsz and queers who wouldn’t stay safely closeted for 100 years.
And now they’ve been ramped up. Great for you that it doesn’t affect you personally, but I don’t really care about you. I care about the people affected.
Only “some” of the camps are new. Hmmm… Now why would thete be old ones if Trump is a new and unique kind of villain?
Compare and contrast the new with the old.
Yeah. It’s the difference between being a candidate and being the President
Except one of the candidates did campaign on bombing Iran. So no.
Or are you genuinely saying that you think Dems don’t start wars just as quickly and easily as Republicans?
As quickly, easily, and frequently? Definitely not.
As long as they can convince you there’s any substance to those differences without actually having to do anything that will piss off their Wall St paymasters, you will never be able to organize to replace either of the two.
Very false. The only substance to those differences is slowing the bleeding, but that is something. They’re never going to change, they have to be replaced, but that takes time. Time I would rather spend under the lesser evil than the greater one, especially when the greater evil imprisons organizers.
I don’t really care about you. I care about the people affected.
Where was that concern when the Neoliberal ghouls you’re standing for now we’re creating the conditions that make it possible? Where is that concern now as you advocate for voting for more of the same but with less media coverage?
Historical trivia question: you remember those “kids in cages” at the border sitting the first round of Trump? At what point during the Biden administration was that facility closed, or converted to something less awful? Sounds to me like you don’t care about the people being affected nearly as much as you care about having to hear about it.
Except one of the candidates did campaign on bombing Iran. So no
That’s true, but it’s the candidate you’re scolding people for not supporting. Der Orangefarbenfuerher ran on “no new wars”. It was an obvious lie, just like when Harris now pretends she’d reign in Israel if she gets another shot at power, but that was the campaign platform. So Yes.
As quickly, easily, and frequently? Definitely not.
The people of Syria, Lybia, Ukraine, and Bosnia would all like a word.
slowing the bleeding, but that is something.
It’s not slowing the bleeding, it’s changing the subject so you don’t have to hear about the bleeding. Slowing the bleeding is getting enough third party people into office to jam up the gears of the orphan crushing machine, or dropping turnout on election day to a single digit percentage and robbing the ruling class of its legitimacy.
But either of those courses of action requires the efforts of people who are capable of rationally analyzing the available options and recognizing that the options the people who currently have power insist are the only acceptable options are ones that will never threaten their power.
At what point during the Biden administration was that facility closed, or converted to something less awful?
Trump has a policy of separating families. Biden did not.
It’s not slowing the bleeding, it’s changing the subject so you don’t have to hear about the bleeding.
Only in your head.
Slowing the bleeding is getting enough third party people into office to jam up the gears of the orphan crushing machine, or dropping turnout on election day to a single digit percentage and robbing the ruling class of its legitimacy.
And how many years have you been trying that with no results? Neither of those things is going to happen anytime soon. Third party votes are in the single digits, and 150M+ people vote every election. And “Legitimacy” only exists in your head. You know what happens if voting numbers drop to single digits? The candidate with the most votes still wins. If only one person in the whole country votes, their candidate wins. Your strategy is not effective. Your goal is noble, but your method is counterproductive.
Trump has a policy of separating families. Biden did not.
You’re really in to changing the subject, huh?
I suppose having to admit that even in 2023 those cages still held kids (and in fact still did when Biden turned the keys back over to Trump) would be pretty embarrassing if you’re calling for voting for Dems on the basis of harm reduction.
And how many years have you been trying that with no results?
What do you mean no results? The Dems lose more voters every cycle. What results are you getting by reassuring them every two years that your vote is safe and they don’t need to concern themselves with how you might react to their latest foray into Neoliberal Austerity or throwing minorities under the bus?
Your goal is noble, but your method is counterproductive.
And your goal isn’t even noble, so maybe reconsider your incredibly counterproductive service to the ruling class and their puppets.
I guess if you’re one of the privileged managerial class in a major city, that’s true. (For the record that describes me, and my personal situation probably would be much better inse a Harris administration)
For most people the differences are a lot less stark.
Or are we pretending that ICE appeared from a misty portal on the morning of 1/20/25?
That Harris wasn’t beating the war drums with Iran and campaigning to Trump’s right on immigration?
That there was ever any chance a Dem administration was going to hold Trump and his enablers accountable for their actions?
Bcs if you’re judging Democrats by their rhetoric instead of by their record, then you’re not a serious adult worth having this conversation with.
If that’s you, you’re one of the least affected, not most.
No, but their current actions did, at least at this scale.
When did that happen?
I don’t care about their rhetoric, but if you can’t see the difference between their record and the Republicans, you’re not a serious adult worth having this conversation with. Both sides are obviously bad, but equally obviously not equally bad.
The people who couldn’t afford life under Biden aren’t doing any better or worse really under Trump. It’s the people who could happily ignore the crushing poverty that Neoliberal Austerity was inflicting on an ever growing portion of the population who are now suddenly experiencing the shock of the tactics of control developed in the colonies being used in the Imperial Core. Everyone who lectured BLM about how terrible it was to say “Defund the Police” suddenly is in the cross hairs and desperate to defund (the one group that threatens them from) the police.
No. The only thing new is that the same billionaire owned media that never made a peep about it is suddenly putting it in your face. Trunp is so desperate to get the number of daily ICE deportations up because he’s not on pace to even match Obama’s numbers and it’s really pissing him off
Throughout the entire 2024 campaign. Representative examples below.
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/10/8/kamala-harris-says-iran-is-greatest-adversary-of-us
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/kamala-harris-calls-iran-destabilizing-force-middle-east-2024-10-01/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/world/harris-iran-is-greatest-us-adversary/2024/10/23/9a9de8c6-d066-44d3-b95c-ddbf5c13737b_video.html
Strike the word “can’t” and the sentence above becomes accurate. Both parties love war, hate working people, and use minorities as political footballs to keep the peasants from revolting. You just have a preference for which flavor of capitalist puppet you like to see on TV. And that’s fine but don’t go moralizing about your preference if you’re not willing to actually get into the weeds on their records. And the Democrats’ records are just as horrible as the GOPs, if you don’t consider “saying the slurs on TV instead of keeping them in the back rooms like Kennedy intended” to be a worse failing than Strike Busting, austerity policy, and massive giveaway from the public treasury to private interests.
No, these tactics are new, some of the camps are literally new.
There’s a stark difference between “Iran is an adversary” and “Bomb Iran”.
Again, wrong. Yes they’re both bad, yes they both engage in some of the same terrible things, but there are still differences. Until we have the organization to replace one of the two, we have to focus on those differences. Once we actually have the numbers and organization to do something different, I’m all for it. Until then, bOtH SiDeS is an outrageously privileged cope.
These tactics aren’t remotely new. It’s the same tactics that have been used on communities of color, left wing agitatorsz and queers who wouldn’t stay safely closeted for 100 years.
Only “some” of the camps are new. Hmmm… Now why would thete be old ones if Trump is a new and unique kind of villain?
Yeah. It’s the difference between being a candidate and being the President.
Or are you genuinely saying that you think Dems don’t start wars just as quickly and easily as Republicans?
That’s exactly backwards. As long as they can convince you there’s any substance to those differences without actually having to do anything that will piss off their Wall St paymasters, you will never be able to organize to replace either of the two.
And now they’ve been ramped up. Great for you that it doesn’t affect you personally, but I don’t really care about you. I care about the people affected.
Compare and contrast the new with the old.
Except one of the candidates did campaign on bombing Iran. So no.
As quickly, easily, and frequently? Definitely not.
Very false. The only substance to those differences is slowing the bleeding, but that is something. They’re never going to change, they have to be replaced, but that takes time. Time I would rather spend under the lesser evil than the greater one, especially when the greater evil imprisons organizers.
Where was that concern when the Neoliberal ghouls you’re standing for now we’re creating the conditions that make it possible? Where is that concern now as you advocate for voting for more of the same but with less media coverage?
Historical trivia question: you remember those “kids in cages” at the border sitting the first round of Trump? At what point during the Biden administration was that facility closed, or converted to something less awful? Sounds to me like you don’t care about the people being affected nearly as much as you care about having to hear about it.
That’s true, but it’s the candidate you’re scolding people for not supporting. Der Orangefarbenfuerher ran on “no new wars”. It was an obvious lie, just like when Harris now pretends she’d reign in Israel if she gets another shot at power, but that was the campaign platform. So Yes.
The people of Syria, Lybia, Ukraine, and Bosnia would all like a word.
It’s not slowing the bleeding, it’s changing the subject so you don’t have to hear about the bleeding. Slowing the bleeding is getting enough third party people into office to jam up the gears of the orphan crushing machine, or dropping turnout on election day to a single digit percentage and robbing the ruling class of its legitimacy.
But either of those courses of action requires the efforts of people who are capable of rationally analyzing the available options and recognizing that the options the people who currently have power insist are the only acceptable options are ones that will never threaten their power.
Trump has a policy of separating families. Biden did not.
Only in your head.
And how many years have you been trying that with no results? Neither of those things is going to happen anytime soon. Third party votes are in the single digits, and 150M+ people vote every election. And “Legitimacy” only exists in your head. You know what happens if voting numbers drop to single digits? The candidate with the most votes still wins. If only one person in the whole country votes, their candidate wins. Your strategy is not effective. Your goal is noble, but your method is counterproductive.
You’re really in to changing the subject, huh?
I suppose having to admit that even in 2023 those cages still held kids (and in fact still did when Biden turned the keys back over to Trump) would be pretty embarrassing if you’re calling for voting for Dems on the basis of harm reduction.
What do you mean no results? The Dems lose more voters every cycle. What results are you getting by reassuring them every two years that your vote is safe and they don’t need to concern themselves with how you might react to their latest foray into Neoliberal Austerity or throwing minorities under the bus?
And your goal isn’t even noble, so maybe reconsider your incredibly counterproductive service to the ruling class and their puppets.