- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.linuxuserspace.show
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.linuxuserspace.show
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This isn’t really news. Anyone who cared and was able to do so isn’t using chrome anymore. They could add back what is needed for ad blockers to work and it wouldn’t bring back enough people to matter.
Haven’t used chrome in years. The closest I’ve been to it is Brave, and I only use it when shit doesn’t load on LibreWolf or IceRaven.
Make it the end of Chrome instead.
Why are people using chrome?
The majority of people just can’t fucking be bothered, don’t fucking care or are completely unaware that there are other options.
Pretty much this. People on the fediverse generally forget how ridiculously non-tech savvy the public at large is, moreso the underlying issues with things like AI, tracking, etc.
And even if the public does know they can just shrug and say “so what?”
People don’t know, don’t want to know, and can’t be bothered if told.
A few days ago, I had to use the Graphite image editor to refine a 3D scene I rendered in Blender. I’m a daily user of Waterfox, but for some reason, whenever I access the Graphite WebApp, it instantly grows in RAM usage, as the whole Waterfox freezes and crashes (which I found out to be a specifically a “core dump” kind of crash when I launched the browser from a terminal). Same for Librewolf. Then I had the idea of accessing Graphite through a spare Chromium (not Chrome, but still a Google thing) I unwittingly have to keep for development purposes, and suddenly it worked without a hassle, it didn’t even require that much RAM.
This happens because Graphite, just like many webapps out there, was made with Chromium-based browsers in mind, likely using some esoteric features which are unavailable or badly implemented in Firefox-based browsers (an incompatibility of which indirectly affects Waterfox).
This, I guess, is part of why people still use Chromium-based browsers: because it became indistinguishable from Internet Explorer and its idiosyncratic features (ActiveX) back in 2000s, with most developers (including myself) coding webpages that used said features (think about having to deal with the filesystem: devs would either have to use Java or devs could use the cool
FileSystemObjectActiveX; similar thing applies nowadays with some HTML5 APIs that can be quite useful for some webapps but are only properly implemented in Chromium). At least we used to have a “This site is better viewed in IE7 on Windows XP with a resolution of 1024 x 768 and Macromedia Flash Player installed” back then, now webpages can simply crash the whole browser when it doesn’t refuse to load after an endless spinning animation.Don’t get me wrong: I would neither recommend Chromium, nor anything Google-related, for anyone, not even my worst enemies (a daily reminder for people, especially we Fediversers, to stop recommending the damn Youtube)… but this is the depressing reality of Web, and IT in general: things (some of which are sine qua non for “living in society” nowadays, such as internet banking and government platforms) that can only function in a specific platform/browser, be it Windows (when it comes to desktop platform), Android (when it comes to mobile) or Chromium (when it comes to the Web).
Honestly the more I think about this the more I think Chromium has become actively harmful to the Internet overall.
The problem isn’t Chromium itself. The problem is that we’re going back to the old days of Internet Explorer, where every popular site is optimized for Internet Explorer (including its non standard quirks) and thus other browsers don’t render it right. And some websites would detect a non-IE useragent and just refuse to load.
The problem is the dependence. Google announces that MV2 is going away and suddenly 5 other ‘independent’ browsers (which are all just Chromium reskins) say ‘yeah it’s going away, sorry too bad so sad but there’s absolutely nothing anyone can do about it our hands are tied’. No one company should have this much control over the browser ecosystem, not even Google. (or these days, especially not Google since they seem to embrace their shedding of the ‘don’t be evil’ mantra).
I think there’s an opening, but it requires resources. A good web rendering / javascript engine isn’t a weekend project. But I think it’s worth the effort to make a new one. And like Chrome’s origins, it should be focused on speed and efficiency.
I say that as a student of history-- used to be IE for normies and Firefox (with a ton of extensions) for nerds. Then Chrome came along, and could often render a page in under 100ms. So everyone (nerds and normies) adopted it. Only now it’s full of Google bloat, web pages cram megabytes of javascript bullshit (to the point that if you hit a major news site, your browser is literally running a live auction in javascript to see who wins the pleasure of showing you an ad), plus a ton of tracking crap. So unfortunately javascript isn’t going away, but a new rendering engine is necessary.
Totally agree with your comment, I’d just make an observation to this specific part:
but a new rendering engine is necessary
The problem with a new rendering engine is who have influence over the specs/standards, as well as who holds the necessary keys to be granted access to its features. We humans have been tying ourselves to centralized entities who pinky-swear they can guarantee “Safety/Security”: SSL/TLS, HDCP and any other technologies gate-kept by “Divine Beholders” of the only keys able to “bless mere mortals” with the temporary grant required to develop using a technology. I mean, this is exactly what’s happening to mobile apps, with “sideloading” having been a boogieman word for installing apps without having to rely on a centralized app store, a manufactured consent that worked so well that people and governments have been accepting, even relying on, Google’s “Integrity Check” shenanigans (and the Apple’s whatever analogue i-thing for iOS). The supply chain attacks that have been happening (from PyPi to AUR) feels like something that’s further pushing us to more centralized “authorities” who’ll then have absolute power over who can and who can’t pass.
Even if a truly independent entity were to come up with a full-fledged browser engine, as compatible as possible with current specs, Google still seems to possess lots of influence on the official Web standards and they can simply commit changes to the specs that would uncirvumventably require Google’s “blessing” to function (for your security, of course /s); so anything “not blessed” would simply fail to function because it isn’t signed by the “blessing”, “divine” keys.
And Mozilla doesn’t feel trustworthy as well, especially because they’re overly reliant on Google’s money to exist, and also because they’ve been pivoting to opt-out (so one must explicitly disable it and confirm their will to disable it, otherwise it will be on by default, which turns to be a shady lack of consenting, much like Google’s behavior) “features” much despite of their own userbase’s demands.
This said, I used to believe in third-way projects such as Servo and Ladybird… except the latter went down a very unacceptable road (founder turned out to be a transphobe who dismisses using neuter pronouns and assumes the user’s gender to be always a “he/him” because “we don’t do politics here”), and the former… it belongs to Linux Foundation, where big corps such as Microsoft, Google and Oracle have their horses (after all, “Microsoft loves Linux”; sure, Nadella, we know how Microsoft “loves” Linux /s).
I’m afraid there’s no light at the end of the fiber optics (pun intended) when it comes to alternative engines: either we try to actively boycott the “modern Web technologies” altogether (ditching HTTP(S) and pivoting to entire alternative protocols such as Geminiprotocol and Gopher whose standards/specs are slightly more distant from the dirty hands of “Google et al”; worth mentioning how Fediverse has Geminiprotocol-capable platforms such as tootik, it’s more doable than reinventing the cursed wheel of the Web which turns to be the infamous Chromium wheel) or we try to stick with the “lesser evil” (forks of Mozilla Firefox, until Firefox becomes totally enshittifiedly indistinguishable from Chromium) until a solution happens (or likely not, then we’re left with just the other path, which is pivoting to alternative standards altogether).
There was a time when Chrome was that much better. Since then, nothing else has been better enough to switch.
Because some sites don’t work unless you have Chrome.
I guess I don’t use those sites then
Especially on mobile… It’s crazy how many times I tried to do a food order or some checkout process and mobile Firefox just hits some error.
There’s always Brave. And yeah, I know there’s some dilema going on out there, but it works for stuff that only loads on chrome.
Ungoogled Chromium works, too.
Does ungoogled chromium have an ads and tracker blocker integrated regardless of the MV2 block in it’s upstream Chromium base?
No. I’ll cross that bridge when I get to it.
Fair enough
Misleading headline, as UBlock Origin Lite will work.
….Which is what the vast majority of Chrome users would be using now anyway. Using full Ublock requires a ton of manual hoops (or a Chromium fork) already, and basically no one using plain Chrome at this point is gonna do that.
Not that this is okay.
I’m just saying it’s misleading. Full Ublock has already been evicted from Chrome for like 99.99% of its users, and sadly, they didn’t seem to care.
The Lite version works fine for me. Would I prefer the full version? Sure. But migrating to a different browser is not that high on the list of things I have energy for.
I mean, if you are using plain Chrome, you can kiss any semblance of tracking protection goodbye. And it is going to get more anti features in the future.
Believe me, I understand not having the energy to address a pile of tech issues; I have them too. But it’s not too bad if you decide to switch, either, as all browsers can import settings from each other.
You can export your contacts and settings and import them in another browser with a few clicks. I am not sure what energy is needed for that but use whatever you prefer.
Who the fucking fuck still uses stock Chrome in 2026, chrissakes.
everyone’s parents methinks. i got mine on chrome 15ish years ago and now they won’t stop. “but you’re the one that told us to use chrome…”
i get that a lot. it’s as if they cannot conceive that things that were once good can become shitty. enshittified if you will.
Fair enough, but do they need/want an ad blocker ?
i think everyone wants/needs an adblocker.
Don’t use Chrome
Switch to firefox.
I would so love if this causes an usage spike for Firefox, so that all websites and webapps start testing for Firefox compatibility again…
The install counts for ad block extensions is surprisingly lower than you’d think.
uBlock only peaked just shy of 30M users, so much less than 1% of general users. Obviously it’s not that cut and dry, but you get the idea. It’s unlikely they have much influence no matter where they go.
If that were true, Google wouldn’t be fighting them so hard.
How many of those 3 billion Chrome users were on desktop though? Mobile is the default for most of the world.
Mobile Firefox has uBlock too, at least on Android.
FF on iOS has not been given a lot of attention for a long time. Apparently this has changed, however I’m yet to see that and the issues I have with FF on iOS keeps me away. Some people try to defend Mozilla and blame Apple - and of cause there is some blame there - but other iOS browsers, including Safari, does a much better job. I’m on Vivaldi for that reason, with the latest version 8 have fixed the few annoying issues I had with it.
I have uBlockOriginLite working with Safari on iOS just fine. I don’t use Firefox much on mobile because Safari works fine for me in that context but I assume it would work in Firefox too.
Isn’t that just because iOS rules mean Firefox is just reskinned Safari? Or do Apple allow other browser engines now?
That’s what people keep saying (and yes, only in the EU are alternative browser engines allowed), however other browsers on iOS can create a decent browser experience. A few things that aren’t supported on FF iOS, that IMO should have been available a long time ago and stops me from using FF anywhere as I want syn mobile with my desktop browser:
- Rearrange icons (web site shortcuts) on the FF Start Page. Also, not synced
- Very limited custom search engine settings (no search suggestions supported, very few search engines to choose from)
- No auto close old inactive tabs
For some reason, mobile FF is so bad on iOS, I keep it only to send links to my desktop or laptop.
IDK that it’s much less than 1% of general users, considering it’s .4% of the total global population, and even as #1 not everyone uses Chrome on desktop (but also some people have multiple desktops…).
But your point is still valid, if the roughly 1% desktop market share shifts to FF, not a lot is likely to change.
You’re saying there are 3 billion Firefox users? That doesn’t sound right. Or you mean 3 billion chrome users?
I think they mean approximate chrome users. There’s about 3.8 billion of them.
Firefox has a user base of approximately 150 million users (and that’s down from 206 million in like 2024).
The people using Chromium based browsers are all huge suckers. It’s just a fact
I wouldn’t say anyone using Chromium. Brave and a few others are still good options. But Firefox is the goat of course.
If only there’s a different web browser one can use… 🤔🤔
Netscape Navigator baby 😎
Pfft. Mosaic is where it’s at.
Lynx gang Rise UP!
The Firefox forks that I use:
- LibreWolf ships with uBlockOrigin by default.
- Zen browser for power users who want lots of out of the box features and customization. An especially excellent browser for users who migrate from Vivaldi. Caveat, as with most feature-rich things, the line between bloat and feature can be a bit blurred.
Fyi, you won’t be able to watch videos on Zen if you’re on Windows. (Yes, you use Arch btw, and wouldn’t be caught dead using Microslop products, thank you random commenter from the future. :^) )
I use NixOS btw
I found Zen to be lightweight, actually. It seems to use a hair less RAM than vanilla FF, and the UI can be extremely minimal.
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I’m using librewolf for most tasks but just FYI you can try ladybird with three lines of git and its coming along nicely. Additionally Kagi’s WebKit browser Orion is looking really great and the flatpak for that is available right now.
Play with them and report bugs. These guys have been making serious progress this year.
I’m not sure I’d recommend Ladybird or Orion for general use yet. Orion is still getting there on Linux, ladybird is in deep development.
…Why not a good fork? Like Zen, Librewolf, or if you need Chromium compatibility, Helium?
Like I said at the top of my post I use librewolf for most tasks. Definitely don’t think anyone should be making daily driver decisions right now. Just raising awareness.
Won’t helium be affected by this change? They bundle Unlock Origin, so they will not be able to do that if they want to follow chromium still. They may have to swap to forking off Brave who uses their own blocking engine.
Indeed. Though they are still two versions away from depreciation:
https://github.com/imputnet/helium/issues/1746
No idea how they’ll handle it, but yeah, they could lift Brave’s engine. Cromite also has its own adblocker they could pull in as a patch.
I’m excited that there are alternative browser engines being developed, but I lost a lot of enthusiasm for Ladybird when I learned more about the lead. Servo is another browser project coming along nicely, although Servo is closer to webkit than it is a fully fledged browser.
You and me both about Ladybird… it was such a blow even I read about the lead.
I’m not happy about it either but one vile man pales in comparison to the vile empire as far as potential damage to the net, so I’m keeping tabs on it as it goes… Well see what happens.
I wonder if this will effect adnauseam.io
Yes, it will. It’s already very finicky with chrome, and it will stop working:
https://github.com/dhowe/AdNauseam/wiki/Install-AdNauseam-on-Chromium-browsers
This will also be an existential issue for downstream browsers that ship Ublock, like Helium (though forks with their own blocker engine like Cromite or Brave will continue to work).
Chrome is for work stuff, nothing else.
I can’t really research a topic for work without an adblocker. The experience is too miserable, everything is riddled with advertisements!
Murica ? Ive Never seen ads here in europe
I switched to uBlock Origin Lite when all this shit started up, is that one going away too?
Nope. Ublock lite was made for Manifest V2 depreciation, specifically.
It’s not as effective as full UBlock though. I notice it missing elements or bugging some pages out when I use it on others’ PCs.
I thought this happened ages ago.
Yes
This is just straight-up incorrect. uBOL is not going away.
Yet
But it says it’s mv3 based and the article says mv2 only
