- cross-posted to:
- opensource@programming.dev
- foss@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- opensource@programming.dev
- foss@beehaw.org
cross-posted from: https://infosec.pub/post/46445602
Is this still going to happen? What can we do?
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Didn’t they already try that? I switched to “arrrrgh” a long time ago. Find an old android phone and make the best.
I keep hearing this and I’m going to be honest this take sounds like hyperbole. All I see is it requires developers to send in identifying credentials. How does one turn into the other? Can someone explain that without catastrophizing?
Like, I’m with you, I just don’t like bad arguments.
To add to what the other reply said, developer verification comes with the implication that Google reserves the right to refuse verification. There are also legitimate reasons a developer might not even want to attempt to verify with Google to begin with. Admittedly, the vast majority of Android users probably don’t use software from outside the Google Play Store, but it’s a right they’ve always had and one Google is about to make much harder to exercise or discover, hence a loss of true device ownership for everyone.
If you’ve only ever lived in ecosystems that only permit software installs via first-party means (think Apple or game consoles), this may not sound alarming. To those of us used to the software situation on PC, where you can freely run any software as long as it exists, this feels like a major hit to software freedom.
You can’t win. Go with Android and it’s (starting to become) a walled garden. Apple? Yep, another walled garden. What about Android roms? Yep, most apps won’t work.
most apps won’t work.
You need to do everyone a favor and stop spreading this nonsense. It’s absolutely false. Every app I’ve installed on my phone works fine, including banking apps. I use cards to make payments instead of NFC. That’s literally it.
I’m tired of people painting ROMs and Linux as if you have to step into the stone age if you want to use them, as if it’s a massive inconvenience.
If having to use cards to pay is enough of an inconvenience for people to rather lick Google’s boot… I don’t even know what to say.
Most apps do work though on ROMs.
People saying this believe you should be able to do whatever you like with the things you purchase without additional conditions. If that’s not the case, in some sense, you don’t own it.
It’s possible that it doesn’t matter to you. Apple is incredibly popular and tight controls on what you can do are their entire business model so clearly it’s a model that works for companies.
But to the people that do care, they tend to care a lot. It’s infuriating. They’ve been supporting, evangelizing, even developing the android ecosystem and this feels like a rug pull.
It is still happening. Although not as bad as it initially appeared.
What can we do? Use GrapheneOS and contact your representatives. That’s pretty much it. But good luck, your reps are likely trying to actively promote locking down the OS.
Thanks. I will do those things.💪
In addition to GrapheneOS (Motorola/ Google Pixel), I was considering brands made in the EU: Jolla phone with Linux or FairPhone with eOS.
Note that you can also get the Fairphone with iodeOS installed, which may be preferred as e/OS’s launcher is closer to iOS in appearance while iodeOS looks more like stock Android. Based on personal taste for that I think, but I would prefer iodeOS.
I got e/OS and just installed a different launcher, but I think it’s great that there are more options for Fairphone.
Using graphene or lineage won’t help. You will still need to avoid google services. Which means no banking apps, government apps, McDonald app, Whatsapp … And the list goes on.
I can’t remember the last time i had a banking app. Are they so critical in your experience?
I use the web browser.
My bank (Capitalone) won’t allow check deposits by the web browser and is closing their physical locations so you can’t deposit in person either.
Time to switch to a local credit union.
Damn. No local branches to visit is ass.
What do you do if you want to make a large withdrawal or deposit?
I’ve already swapped to GrapheneOS and refuse to use anything from the Play store. Don’t even have it installed.
Most of the apps I was already using day to day have GitHub repos with apks and Obtanium auto updates for me.
Yeah losing banking apps sucks, but oh well? I don’t see the big loss there. I’ll just use the desktop site and anything else I’ll just go to my bank physically.
I’d rather deal with the inconvenience at this point.
No whatsapp? I used it on waydroid with no google services installed
Yes, gave your tried recently? Wathsapp Is banning users Just because they use it on lineage os without google apps… Not common, but it’s happening.
I was lineage os maintainer and still follow a few forums. And this topic is recurrent in the last months.
I am on Lineage with no gapps, I do have microg though, but not logged in. And have been for a couple years. No problems with Whatsapp so far, and banking apps too for that matter.
My google android device runs GrapheneOS, with which you can use sandboxed google play services. Yes, the google play services API will likely block nonconforming apps from functioning if they use play services, but apps don’t have to use play services, and you’ll still be able to install anything you want. As far as I’m concerned, any app that stops working when google pulls the plug in September will be replaced with a FOSS alternative.
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Use websites instead of banking apps. You bank doesn’t have a website? Fukem, change bank
Can you use the desktop site through the phone browser on a Linux phone or grapheneos?
My bank won’t let you deposit checks through the browser and has closed their physical locations so you can’t deposit checks in person. I get around this by keeping a cheap default tablet around my house.
Or you know, don’t support banks that close their local branch. Switch out.
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Realistically at that point, would it be better to be on iOS than android, then? I know iOS is wayyyyyy locked down, but apple is slightly more privacy respecting than android from what I understand, because Apple’s incentive is to sell you services and hardware, while Google’s is to sell you as a product to advertisers?
I have no strong opinion here, looking to be educated. I’ve never wanted an iPhone, but I’m already looking at a used m1 air, and if google is going to rape me and now they’re taking the lube away, would I (a person who is not techy enough to really understand how to fight back against this) be better off on an iPhone? Most of my income right now comes from doordashing. I’m fairly certain I won’t be able to do that without play services or whatever iPhone uses
Yes if you want the convenience and not give up anything iOS is better then android. If your willing to give up some convenience graphene OS.
Like Microsoft, Google seems to be forcing Power Users to Linux.
While I’m not going to say its over, it sure looks like Google is about to make it a whole lot harder for people to escape their influence.
And the worst part of this is it would seem even the most “privacy conscious” governments are on Google’s side.
Because locking everything down and removing our privacy is good for the children… Just never mind the rich pedophile cabal that almost nothing was done about other than slapping the wrists a few very high profile scapegoats.
Since this runs through the Play Store, what if the Play is disabled, Play Services are disabled but you are still on Android. They can’t enable this on your device right?
Right. It’s on Google controlled Androids only. The issue is that the whole ecosystem gets damaged because it’s drawing a line between a controlled and a free phone. Google accepts a less valuable ecosystem for more control over the devices and apps that remain.
People need to start working on hacks to freeze or patch Google Play Services ASAP. (Is that even possible, or is it protected at such a low level that it can’t be replaced/modified without rooting? If so, GrapheneOS or other AOSP-based alternate ROMs without Play services would be our only hope.)
The cat-and-mouse game that will start once this is rolled out is only a temporary solution; legislation and making google roll back this decision is the only long-term solution. That, and real Linux phones running something other than Android.
I read on the keepandroidopen github that the “advanced flow” (for “side-loading”) is delivered through Google Play Services, not the Android OS, meaning Google can modify, restrict, or remove it at any time without an OS update and without any user consent.
So, yes, I think you’re right, GrapheneOS, PostmarketOS, /e/OS and the likes would be safe (for now) since they don’t have the “Google Play Services”. I read MicroG is a way to get core functionalities of the Play Services API.
For Linux phone, the Jolla phone has peeked my interest. But I would be missing Android apps, unless there is virtualization to run those??
Let’s be honest it already isn’t mine
I refuse to comply with that, so I’ve been running free/libre ROM forks for years.
I’ve been getting into some games on itch.io.
Allll of those .apk files are going to turn into garbage in 100 days. Its like the death of flash all over again.And here there’s a list of regulators to which you can complain: https://keepandroidopen.org/cta/#consumers
So sad. Hmm, a different OS? PostmarketOS? eOS? Try if those support your device.
