• Manticore@lemmy.nz
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      8 hours ago

      Depends on the vegan you’re talking to.

      Wild figs may be but as soon as you’re cultivating fig varieties that require the fig wasp, you are artificially increasing the wasp population specifically to perish, in order to sustain human horticulture. Much like honey or milk, the fact you don’t eat the animal’s flesh might still defy the spirit of ‘no animal exploitation’. Most pollinators do not explicitly perish as part of pollination; figs are one of the foods vegans may disagree on.

      The good news is that there are a small number of fig varieties that can be fertilised without the wasp (either by hand, or self-pollinating clones). In a lot of countries this is the variety that may be grown because importing wasps could be ecologically dangerous.

      • mathemachristian [he/him]@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        6 hours ago

        Wild figs may be but as soon as you’re cultivating fig varieties that require the fig wasp, you are artificially increasing the wasp population specifically to perish, in order to sustain human horticulture.

        That’s still different to animal exploitation. Veganism are the consumption practices of people advocating for animal liberation. This is not contrary to that, “milk” and “honey” are produced by the animals for a specific reason, namely their young. Even if it were possible to obtain them without harming the animal (and there isn’t, both require animal death if they are to be produced in consumer quantities) there still is the problem of consent. It is clear that bees and cows under normal circumstances do not want to give away their milk/honey. The wasp however is already dead, it is not harmed by eating the fig and it’s consent is no longer part of the equation.

        If the fig cultivation reaches a level where the wasps have to be kept under circumstances similar to the bees then yes I wouldn’t consider the figs that require these wasps to be vegan.

        • TigerAce@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          7 hours ago

          Not completely true. There’s a tick which can make you allergic to animal cell structures, basically making you vegan. So lab grown meat would still be a no no. For me, I want to eat plant (and fungi) based products so I don’t want lab grown meat (although I would like to try it once). I think lab grown meat is amazing, because people who desperately want to eat meat can do so without feeding the fucked up meat industry. Less livestock means less chance on virus mutation, so less chance of pandemics. I think this is the most important reason to reduce global livestock.

          • psud@aussie.zone
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            5 hours ago

            Were you to try poisoning me to make me stop eating meat, I would eat fish, and birds

          • yabbadabaddon@lemmy.zip
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            6 hours ago

            It depends if you consider veganism as a philosophy or a diet. I consider it a philosophy because I do not eat leather yet veganism prohibit its use.

            • TigerAce@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              2 hours ago

              Being vegan means not using animal products. That’s different to a plant based diet. In sports a plant based diet became popular since a documentery on Netflix, but these people aren’t vegan as they do use leather, wool and bees wax for example.

              • yabbadabaddon@lemmy.zip
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                1 hour ago

                As I said, veganism can be considered a diet or a philosophy. At least that’s what Wikipedia and every online dictionaries say.

        • Nangijala@feddit.dk
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          7 hours ago

          This made me think whether in order to produce lab grown meat, wouldn’t they have to use real meat as a reference point? And if yes, is it truly vegan, then? If they’re just printing meat used from one real meat source?

          I know nothing about lab grown meat, but I just wondered where they get the source material to grow it.

            • Nangijala@feddit.dk
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              6 hours ago

              There are a lot of interesting ethical questions and how strict one should be about their veganism etc. I’m not judging, because it’s up to the individual to decide where the line is drawn. Personally I think labgrown meat is interesting and if it could become a way to have meat in the future and avoid most of the problems we see today, then I’m all for it.

              I’m also not a vegan myself, but have cut pork out of my life and rarely eat beef. Mostly stick to chicken and veggie alternatives so I know the endless consideration of where the limit goes. We can only do our best at the end of the day.

              But yeah, I just find the subject of lab grown meat interesting in how a vegan would handle that concept - which is different from person to person, I’m sure.

              • yabbadabaddon@lemmy.zip
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                3 hours ago

                Ho yeah. I’m not vegan, I’ve been a vegetarian for the most part of my life now but I was alwaya quite lucid: I am not vegan because I do not have the courage to be. It is extremely easy to be a vegetarian in a rich country in 2026 but it still is not to be vegan.

                Socially, vegetarian is acceptable and even often seen as brave or whatever. You can easily not eat meat when you’re invited or go out to eat. Veganism is often seen as extreme and it is hard to eat out or get invited.

                • Nangijala@feddit.dk
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                  2 hours ago

                  Yeah I get you.

                  I have sadly had my own run ins with the stereotype of a crazy vegan more than once due to the type of social environment I am connected to. There are some very extreme and annoying vegans out there, but honestly, I feel like times have changed enough these past ten years that I run in to way more normal and reasonable vegans nowadays. Veganism and the political issues they have been focused on for a long time are becoming more and more normal - at least where I live - so the crazy vegans are slowly being drowned out more and more by normal people who are either going vegan or choosing more vegan options.

                  I see shops and restaurants becoming more and more accommodating to vegan options so I think in the future, it will become much easier to go vegan both socially and practically.

                  🤗