Mullvad is how my 80-year-old mom can access the real internet in Russia. I top off her account here in the U.S., and she can browse all she wants. It’s easy enough for her to use.
Oh, also obligatory fuck Putin.
Mullvad is an absolute bargain too.
I’m switching to AIRVPN when my mullvad subscription ends. It’s been a nice 4 years, but I need port forwarding and mullvad took that away.
May I know why you chose airvpn, other than because of port forwarding?
A group of friends gotten PIA a year or something ago for 3 years and we shared an account but the performance is mid. They also abandoned updating their Firefox extension so that’s another reason I want to change.
Like you I also want port forwarding so mullvad isn’t it
Yeah, PIA is… Alright? The parent company has a problematic past. Their old business model back in the late 2000’s was basically buying dying software, then pumping it full of adware to extract as much profit from the existing user base as possible. So lots of people jumped ship to other VPNs when PIA was sold to them a few years ago. But PIA itself has passed every audit that has been thrown at them, and they’re one of the few VPNs that still supports port forwarding.
Their performance is, as you said, mid. The speed definitely isn’t anywhere near gigabit, and the client tends to be kinda glitchy. But since port forwarding is such a hard requirement for so many people, they’ve managed to hold on to a pretty solid user base purely because of that.
PIA consistently drops on me whenever a torrent gets decent speed
It’s also cheaper than mullvad and has good reviews. That’s all I got.
Cheaper and have good reviews is just enough justification :)
I love mullvad and their account generation feature, it’s so refreshing not having to enter all of your personal details in order to receive a service.
And you can use monero to pay for your subscription, too. No need to give them any identifiable payment info.
you can send several currencies by mail anonymously
welcome to the club, gentleman 🥂
I would use Mullvad if it wasn’t for the lack of port forwarding. without that the service is subpar for my needs
AFAIK only Mulvad and IVPN (and maybe ProtonVPN) are worth using.
I succumbed to frienship bias and went with NordVPN which my best friend vouched for. I have since regretted that decision. While the process of paying and setting up was easy, the technical issues I’ve faced are really annoying. Still have a year and change on the contract so I don’t want to change right now but as soon as it’s over I’m switching to Mullvad. (If world war 3 does not destroy civilization)
I’ve been using the one included with my Proton subscription, what do yall think about it? Worth it to also pay for Mullvad?
I have nothing against Proton or any of their products, but I took the opportunity of switching away from big tech to also switch away from the all-services-in-one-provider model. Moving everything from let’s say Google to let’s say Proton just kicks the problem down the road. If Proton ever goes evil or goes out of business you’re now looking for a new home for all your services again.
Its also generally good privacy practice to use a VPN provider that is wholly separate from any other provider you use so that provider can’t relate your VPN traffic to all the other data they have on you. This is more true from providers who aren’t trustworthy, but it’s a rule I follow regardless.
Of course, this all depends on your threat model.
I am in the process of slowly buying up the hardware and learning the needed information to self host, I degoogled my life which was a hard thing and Proton was the easier place to go and it was intended to be a place holder till I feel confident enough to switch everything over to a self hosted setup. Using Proton’s VPN is more a frugal choice.
I’ve setup my first Pi Nas (raspberry 5 pi nas) and that was my first step in my self hosting journey, I do own my domains for my emails so step 2 is to get another raspberry 5 and setup my own self hosted website server and email.
I’ve always been a tech savvy guy but my field is manufacturing, I’m not a software or web developer like a lot of the people on here so it’s a bit of a slower pace and learning curve for me but I’m working on it. Also it doesn’t help that it’s getting more and more expensive to self host by the day.
I do value the input and information I learn on here and appreciate the explanation.
I’ve always been a tech savvy guy but my field is manufacturing, I’m not a software or web developer like a lot of the people on here so it’s a bit of a slower pace and learning curve for me but I’m working on it.
I felt this in my bones. I do a lot of tech work, but basically none of it is programming or web dev. So lots of the self hosting stuff goes right over my head unless I really take the time to dive in. The worst part about self hosting is realizing how much you don’t know, but also knowing there’s probably a lot more that isn’t even on your radar.
Everyone has heard horror stories about the newbie self hoster just forwarding ports for every single service they run, not realizing that it’s turning their firewall into a sieve. And it’s the “not realizing” part that is scary. Especially when basically every Reddit thread about hosting something like Jellyfin will inevitably have a comment near the top, which is along the lines of “lol I just forward my port and it works.” Misinformation about best security practices is rampant, and filtering it out can be overwhelming for a newbie. Especially since the “not realizing” threat is always present. It’s always possible you made some dumb mistake that just exposed your entire LAN to the internet. And you won’t even know you made the mistake until all of your shit is ransomwared or being used to mine bitcoin.
Using separate providers for cloud storage, passwords, email and VPN is way less convenient and more expensive than having it all under Proton. It’s not perfect but it’s miles ahead of what most people use.
how is it way less convenient? I switched from Proton to other services and I conveniency has increased since quality of services has increased. and because I don’t really see many fundamental benefits of them being tied together.
Proton is a big supporter of Trump regime
Not challenging you, but do you have evidence that’s easy for you to get to? I am considering their mail service. Thanks!
I guess they mean the tweet of the Proton CEO, which was blown far out of proportion and without context and caused a sensationalist shitstorm on Reddit.
If you want a detailed write up: https://scribe.rip/@ovenplayer/does-proton-really-support-trump-a-deeper-analysis-and-surprising-findings-aed4fee4305e
Dude basically just said that Reps were more responsive than Dems when he tried to lobby. Everyone’s translation was that he must love Trump.
Good write up, thank you for the context.
I think I’ve gotten this info on Lemmy somewhere. Searching got me this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44808694
https://theintercept.com/2025/01/28/proton-mail-andy-yen-trump-republicans/
So it seems like it’s not such a clear cut case as i made it out to be. Thanks for “challenging” me, even though that wasn’t your goal.
Thanks for the update!
I’ve used mullvlad for over a decade. Just started using proton last year. Both offer really good encryption and in great countries outside of the big data stealers. Mullvad sweden, proton swiss. Last I saw protons encryption is a bit better…both offer two-hop. Proton offers many more countries and servers. And proton is a bit faster.
I think Proton are decent, but they aren’t great. Proton recently were legally forced to give up user information to the FBI by Swiss-US agreements after identifying a protestor’s email address. The VPN’s a slightly different ballgame, but the risk I’d say is meaningfully higher still.
Mullvad’s cash and Crypto acceptance, as well as its determination to hold onto no information, makes it significantly better. Whereas Proton will and have to give up whatever they’ve got. Depends on your sensitivity to risk.
Proton is known to unmask paying customers to agencies like the FBI, just so you know.
That’s a misleading way to frame it. Proton doesn’t “unmask customers for the FBI.” They respond to legal requests through Swiss authorities, like any company operating under a jurisdiction.
And in the reported cases what was provided was account or payment metadata, not decrypted email content. If someone ties their real identity to an account through payments, no provider can magically make that anonymous.
A good comparison is Mullvad VPN. When Swedish police searched their offices in 2023, they left empty-handed because Mullvad doesn’t keep user identities and accounts aren’t tied to emails. If a user registers without identifiable payment, there simply isn’t much data to hand over.
The real issue isn’t “betrayal,” it’s what data exists in the first place.
No, lol. That would have to go through a Swiss court first. Also, the only info the FBI is going to get is “Yes, this person is a ProtonVPN customer.” Your data is end-to-end encrypted, so Proton cannot decrypt it.
Check the news. Proton literally unmasked the identity of a paying customer to the FBI. Delivering someone’s identity is as bad if not worse than delivering messages: at that point it matters not if your data is encrypted because now the FBI can target you for $5-wrench torture.
The reporting doesn’t say Proton “literally unmasked a user to the FBI.” What happened is that Proton was legally compelled by Swiss authorities to provide payment data they already had, and those authorities later shared it with the FBI through a legal assistance treaty.
The email content remained encrypted. What identified the user was the credit-card payment tied to the account, which is inherently traceable.
The uncomfortable reality is that people often deanonymize themselves: they create accounts without Tor, pay with identifiable cards, and link real-world data to the account. At that point the provider doesn’t need to “break” anything — the identifying information already exists.
Slice it how you dice it, Proton aided in the process, and they gave out information that the FBI would have reasonably not have had at that point, or else they’d have acted upon it. Slice it how you dice it, Proton unmasked a customer to the FBI.
You can repeat that framing, but it’s still inaccurate. Proton didn’t “unmask a user for the FBI.” They complied with a legal order from Swiss authorities for data they already had, and that information was later shared through legal channels.
What identified the user was their own payment data tied to the account. If you pay with a credit card and create the account without anonymity tools, your identity is already linked — no provider has to “break” anything.
That’s the uncomfortable reality: people often de-anonymize themselves by using identifiable payments and normal connections instead of Tor and anonymous methods when creating the account.
Half true.
This post is about VPN. And Proton VPN is still safe.
Your info/news is on Proton Mail. In this case Proton was legally obliged (Swiss law) to give out identifying data for the owner of a known email address. The owner used a credit card and they had to give up the credit card info. The content and communications inside their email account is still private and was not given out. If they had used cash or crypto for paying, proton might have had no information to give out to the authorities. And again, they were obliged by law.
And again, they were obliged by law.
If the only defense a company has for giving away information about (paying!) customers to an agency of a fascist country known for disappearing people is “I was just obeying orders!”, may I remind you of the Nuremberg Trials. But, well, I guess there’s nothing better to expect from Proton on that end. The Swiss were, after all, well-known for taking all that Nazi gold without any complaints.
Just follow orders, like a good soldier.
why, what should have they done? close shop and go to jail for not complying?
you have unrealistic expectations. if you are high risk, you should only access their services over their onion site and only pay in crypto or gift cards. they give all the tools one needs to stay truly anonymous.
why, what should have they done?
In the least, fight it more in court. Isn’t that the entire point of the thing, to keep things looping around via lawyers? Maybe notify the user beforehand, as well.
In the most, not have hosted that data in the first place. No need to keep subscription data if you implement one-time lifetime plans, for example.
Are you OK? You didn’t hurt yourself with that ridiculous stretch, did you?
I can’t wait for my Private Internet Access to run out.
While I agree PIA is mid, they’re one of the few half-decent VPNs that still supports port forwarding.
Aren’t the owners massive zionists?
Ok guys, do I drop Proton for Mullvad, or do I keep it for port forwarding? My contract is ending soon. I’m starting to pirate more as I have a homelab running Arr services now, and I use port forwarding on my Qbittorrent client with Gluetun. I dislike Proton for liking Trump, but I need port forwarding. Or try AirVPN?
If you need port forwarding for qBittorrent + Arr + Gluetun, Mullvad isn’t an option anymore. They removed port forwarding in 2023.
That basically leaves Proton or AirVPN. Proton still supports port forwarding on P2P servers, while AirVPN is the more “power-user” option with persistent forwarded ports.
So if port forwarding matters for your setup, dropping Proton for Mullvad would actually break the functionality you’re using.
The original post for proton wasn’t directly supporting trump but that argument has been beat to death.
I’ve been running the arrs for years without vpn. Qbittorrent container, nzbget, etc
I mean, yes, it was specifically Andy who said he liked Trump’s pick, not the entire Proton business (although he’s dumb for posting from the Proton account). But it still doesn’t sit right with me to have a board member that thinks anyone on Trump’s cabinet is competent in any form, and the idea that Republicans support the “little guys” lol.
Also that’s fantastic for you that your Qbittorrent isn’t behind a VPN, but I’m not about to take that chance and have my ISP breaking down my door or cause issues for my parents, so I use a VPN.
Same. VPN is a waste of money if using private trackers and encryption.
Lemme just drop this here:
Yes, but you could have just told us the TLDR? Forums are discussions not link dropping. Your contribution would really help.
Sounds cool. What would you say makes it better than Mullvad?
I have no idea if it’s better or how to make that call.
Njalla (wiki) has an excellent privacy-activist pedigree; the crew is more left than simply freeze peach; and they have a record of competence.
I think they deserve to be better known, and should be considered alongside Mullvad.
Edit:
Port forwarding :)
Port forwarding is a good argument.
I like them for purchasing domains
Yes same, hi five borther
I find this stuff interesting. It’s real distinction from Mullvad seems to be its “decentralized” model. Best I can tell, anyone can set up a server, stake some crypto collateral, and act as a link server in return for a share of pay.
While I think this model can work, my fear is that it’s subject to the same vulnerability as the Tor network - If the five eyes control a big portion of nodes (and given they’re profitable to run, why wouldn’t they do this?), then they can follow your traffic easily.
Chances are, like with Tor, that this fear is a bit overblown. But it’s very hard to know. I think the model (anyone can run a server) does have its own, probably equal weaknesses, compared to a single name (eg Mullvad) who stand to lose their entire business the second they’re suspected to be giving up data to authorities.
This feature is unique to nym as well, as far as I’m aware:
Well, it’s basically what Tor does, just with extra hops. So the vulnerability is still the same, but you’re trading off higher cost/lower speed for mitigating the risk somewhat.
Many VPNs (including Mullvad) do this “noise packets”/size hiding encryption thing. That’s good, but not unique.
That’s kind of what I meant. Implementing both of those things together on a VPN is unique AFAIK.
I would imagine if you could trust the entry node that would also mitigate a significant amount of risk, no? I’m not deeply knowledgeable on the subject just FYI
Ah, I see, yeah I’m not aware of others doing both at once. I do think it’s a decent security model.
And yep, the big deal is controlling entry+exit gateways. Trusting those will always be the fundamental risk point in VPNs.
Based
