“As for those anti-imperialists who don’t participate in this festival of xenophobia — and here I include myself — we have our own elitist consolation: we accept the tragedy of masses of gullible sheeple falling for cunning propaganda because having overcome it flatters our own intelligence. The more we condemn society’s stupidity, the smarter we feel in comparison.”
- Masses, Elites, and Rebels: The Theory of “Brainwashing” (2022)
Roderic Day, 2022-05-23

https://redsails.org/masses-elites-and-rebels/

  • manuallybreathing@lemmy.ml
    10·
    25 days ago

    The western masses aren’t fools, they’re stubborn and comfortable. In my experience a lot of people arent interested in making things better if their situation is inconvenienced even a little

    Everything on redsails is great obviously

    • haui@lemmygrad.ml
      4·
      24 days ago

      I stand by my thesis that most westerners who own (as in at least mostly paid off) a house, car (not some 19 yr old trashcan), stock or have an increasing amount of cash in the bank or some savings account that is available, are in fact not fully proletarian.

      Having grown up in an actual proletarian household, there were months where food was scarce or clothes had to be hand me downs instead of new. A huge portion of for example german youth has never known scarcity and the same goes for the boomers, genx and y.

      The reason i say this is because a working class person who actually has to work and cant really lose their job or face dire consequences is in fact much easier to get convinced than the petty bourgois comfy office job types.

      Imo, 5 digit sums of cash, newish cars and houses are means of production in a sense. And just because a full time worker doesnt rent our a spare room to exploit someone else does not mean they cant.

      Feel free to disagree or counter with theory. I’m eager to learn.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
        6·
        24 days ago

        Ultimately, you’re identifying the upper stratum of the proletariat (including office workers) as their own class. I agree that they form a subgroup that shares similar characteristics, including taking more to convince of the necessity of socialism, but ultimately they do engage in proletarian relations. They are ultimately bribed by the spoils of imperialism to inflate their living standards, but as imperialism crumbles, through no changes in their labor relations, will necessarily fall into immiseration with the rest of the proletariat. This is why class is not the same as income or wealth, but that those are often correlated.

        • Atlas@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
          3·
          23 days ago

          The closest analogy I can think of is Malcom X’s words on house slaves and field slaves.

          There were two kinds of slaves, the house Negro and the field Negro. The house Negroes-they lived in the house with master, they dressed pretty good, they ate good because they ate his food what he left. They lived in the attic or the basement, but still they lived near the master; and they loved the master more than the master loved himself. They would give their life to save the master’s house-quicker than the master would. If the master said, “We got a good house here,” the house Negro would say, “Yeah, we got a good house here.” Whenever the master said “we,” he said “we.” That’s how you can tell a house Negro.

          […]

          And if you came to the house Negro and said, “Let’s run away, let’s escape, let’s separate,” the house Negro would look at you and say, “Man, you crazy. What you mean, separate? Where is there a better house than this? Where can I wear better clothes than this? Where can I eat better food than this?” That was that house Negro.

          – “Malcom X speaks” p. 10-11

          I hesitate to directly equate chattel slavery to comfortable white collar westerners, but it seems relevant to the question of why wealthy proles would act against their own class interest. There is this brain-worm burrowed deep that shouts “Where is there a better house than this?”, “Where can I eat better food than this?”, “Where can I get more treats than this?”.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
            3·
            23 days ago

            Indeed, this substratum of the proletariat is often correctly identified as the labor aristocracy, but their relations of production are ultimately proletarian and thus they are further immiserated by capitalist decay. It will take longer, but they are not a distinct class.

  • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
    9·
    24 days ago

    Absolutely critical reading, and really helps with any kind of outreach you may do. You aren’t going to convince your interlocutor most of the time, but others seeing it happen in front of them may be convinced over time. We aren’t immune to the issues we see in others, it’s just that our material conditions have aligned us against the status quo, and that perspective helps us see through its lies.

  • apt_install_coffee@lemmy.ml
    5·
    24 days ago

    I regularly think about two phases I’ve heard:

    • “The smarter you are, the better you get at rationalising bad decisions”
    • “advertising/propaganda works best when you are certain it doesn’t work on you.”

    I feel like they remind me that when it comes to making choices & being duped, intelligence is mostly irrelevant.

    My belief is that on an individual level, the counter to propaganda is both free time to ruminate on what we believe, and a strong network of people we trust who are willing to challenge us on the things we say and do. Two things which an atomized and overworked society looses at all levels.