Contains a Babylon 5 spoiler

  • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    28
    ·
    edit-2
    2 days ago

    When I think of Walter Koenig, I think of Bester, not Chekov.

    To be blunt, whenever I watched Trek I never got the impression he was particularly good. But then when I saw him in B5, I thought "Damn he can act. Why didn’t the Trek show runners take advantage of this?!"

  • VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    47
    ·
    3 days ago

    G’Kar was the wrong character to show for the prosthetics poke. The Narn prosthetics are actually shockingly good with a surprisingly high degree of articulation allowing for lots of emoting and facial expressions. Some of Delenn’s head bone prosthetics, on the other hand, are just terrible.

    • Warl0k3@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      20
      ·
      3 days ago

      Optic Nerve won a damn Emmy for their prosthetic work on B5, not sure what op’s on about with that one…

    • GalacticGrapefruit@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      2 days ago

      Given the budget that Fox gave them to film this, I’m not going to whine about it when I’ve watched community theater productions and enjoyed them. If the visual realism is a hard sticking point, then unfortunately, you just kinda have to sigh and live with it. Enjoy the story, and maybe try making fandom cosplay and give it a try for yourself.

      That isn’t a dig, btw. Being able to make costumes of similar (but lesser) quality made me appreciate the hard work that goes into this more. And being involved in it helped me learn willfull suspension of disbelief. Or course you can see the seams in the costume. The actor is ignoring them and doing their damn best for a good script. I think that effort deserves a little grace.

    • SatyrSackOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      3 days ago

      G’Kar can’t even turn his neck. Reminds me of how the Cardassian prosthetics pull me out of the realism and make me painfully aware that I am watching TV.

        • SatyrSackOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          3 days ago

          That’s just a guess as to one reason why these types of alien prosthetics are so immersion-breaking

    • slingstone@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      32
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      3 days ago

      Kirk fought literal Nazis. Sheridan fought future Nazis. Why did you get downvoted for this comment?

      • SatyrSackOP
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        47
        ·
        3 days ago

        Obviously for bringing politics into a discussion about my beloved politics show

        • SatyrSackOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          14
          ·
          3 days ago

          I think Archer and his crew were the only ones who fought literal Nazis. Everyone else was fighting some other organization that had just adopted some of their philosophies.

          • slingstone@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            10
            ·
            3 days ago

            Well, I guess the Nazis Kirk fought weren’t humans from Earth from the 20th century, but I recall they wore exactly the same uniforms and had the same symbology.

  • MalikMuaddibSoong@startrek.website
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    16
    ·
    2 days ago

    goofy hairstyles

    Look how they massacred my boy Londo.

    First real character I remember in sci-fi. He’s a highfalutin blowhard from a noble house, who’s fucking broke and has to lose two of his wives.

    Then he picks the one that treats him the worst because she lies the least.

    Then he goes on to sell his soul to make his planet great again which of course if goes all monkey paw on him.

    The dude is a walking pile of contradictions. There’s nobody like him in star trek sadly.

    • SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      2 days ago

      And the show blew me away with how it showed exactly how Londo would die in the first season, and his death was both exactly, and nothing at all, like it was foretold.

    • Taleya@aussie.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      2 days ago

      The way he gained a soul the hard way just to trade it, fucking amazing journey

  • TotallyNotSpez@startrek.website
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    35
    ·
    3 days ago

    Pretty much every scene involving Londo and G’Kar is solid gold. Although every time Peter Jurasik appears on screen with his very odd accent for Londo, my mind goes like: “Oh, here’s The (space) Count from Sesame Street again!”

  • Hatshepsut@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    17
    ·
    3 days ago

    S4 is a really interesting watch given the current political climate in the US. I just embarked on a re-watch this month. Agree G’kar and Londo scenes were great. My favorite duo in the show.

  • teft@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    22
    ·
    3 days ago

    It has been a while since my last rewatch.

    It was the dawn of the third age of mankind – ten years after my last rewatch.

  • Cyrus Draegur@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    21
    ·
    3 days ago

    See, that was their problem. Their last best hope for peace was a truck stop? That is not where you get peace. That is where you get the opposite of peace. They could have only done worse if it were a space waffle house.

    • SatyrSackOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      19
      ·
      3 days ago

      To be fair, while “truck stop” is a fairly accurate term for DS9 and its location along a major trade route, the primary purpose of Babylon 5 was really just being a neutral location for political relations and whatnot. Though maybe there are important meetings that are conducted at Waffle House, idk

    • Taleya@aussie.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      2 days ago

      Ds9 was a truck stop, the babylon stations were UN convention centres with bazaars did you even watch the show

      • Cyrus Draegur@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        2 days ago

        The Centauri: “You call this a convention center? I would not host my second cousin’s baby shower here; it stinks of commoners.”

        (which is to say, i watched it two decades ago)

      • Taleya@aussie.zone
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        2 days ago

        Recently did another marathon but this time in in-universe chronological order and goddamn, late delivery from Avalon hits so much harder (delenn’s reaction) if you watched In the Beginning first

    • Apeman42@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      3 days ago

      space waffle house

      Stop everything else, this is the show I want. Let’s see a strung out avian fist fighting a drunk grey across the counter, while a little green man twerks in the background.

      • OpenStars@piefed.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        edit-2
        2 days ago

        Okay yeah but… that sounds like a lotta work.

        So here’s Homer Simpson eating a waffle, wrapped around a stick of butter. Bonus: it’s fried:-P

        img

    • Sir G'kar@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      ·
      2 days ago

      One of the wonderful little details from B5 was the holographic recording Londo made for [REDACTED] where he’s making his grand speech about how and why he’s having him [REDACTED]. The recording is constantly looking in the wrong direction, pointing accusingly at the wall, moving through people, and just obviously not lining up with the room it’s being played in because it’s just a recording.

      Then the gospel choir kicks in and the episode officially becomes my all time favorite.

      • SatyrSackOP
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        2 days ago

        An account created three months ago, named after a Babylon 5 character, and your very first comment is under this post about Babylon 5. Checks out.

    • SatyrSackOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      15
      ·
      3 days ago

      That is something that has bugged me since I started watching sci-fi (yes, I am relatively new to the genre), and I don’t think I have ever seen anybody talk about it.

    • mmddmm@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      3 days ago

      Star Wars is so much worse on that than anything Trek-like… so much that some times people mention it. But yeah, I’ve never seen anybody mention it about Star Trek or B5.

      • SatyrSackOP
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        11
        ·
        edit-2
        2 days ago

        I assume the logistics are entirely different with a hologram compared to a 2D viewscreen. Or are there viewscreens in Star Wars as well?

        EDIT: Oh, this question probably does a good job summarizing the type of inconsistencies you are talking about

        https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/108609/how-do-star-wars-hologram-communications-work

        Starting at 2:46 in Clones Wars season 2 episode 7 we see both ends of a hologram communication. I’ve always wondered how people somehow manage to maintain eye contact while using holograms to communicate since often, as in this case, each are viewing images of the other that greatly vary in size. Obi-wan Kenobi and Ki-Adi-Mundi are in a large room looking down on a 2-3 foot image of Luminara Unduli.

        Master Unduli however is holding a mobile jedi holoprojector looking down at 1 foot images of Kenobi and Mundi.

        How can they both be looking down at projections less than half the height of an average humanoid while still maintaining eye contact with the person on the other end?

        Stranger still, at 3:16 when Anakin Skywalker enters the room, joining the other two Jedi, we see the 2-3 foot image of Unduli in the center of the room turn her entire body about 90 degrees to face Skywalker.

        Then Mundi speaks up at 3:25, prompting the small Unduli image to do a 180 degree turn to face Mundi.

        However we then immediately see at 3:29 that she never needed to turn since they’ve only been two little images in her hand all along.

        It makes no sense for Unduli to turn right and left to face people she’s essentially holding in her hand. Curiously, Skywalker’s image is absent from Unduli’s mobile holoprojector even though we saw her turn to face him. Did he race out of the room the nanosecond he finished talking?

        • GalacticGrapefruit@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          2 days ago

          Daaaaaamn, a real nerd! Got the screenshots for it too!

          This is actual praise, holy hell, I did not expect to see this kind of effort for a comment. I fucking love Lemmy, I hope it stays this good for as long as possible.

          This was one of the issues they ran into early in the Clone Wars. In my head, I justified it as a more advanced version of modern video chat software filters. The ones subtly shift your pupils to look like they’re looking at the camera instead of the screen. I think in later episodes, I remember seeing holograms scaled to eye level, and communicators being held at eye level as often as feasible.

          But this is obviously retrospective justification, and the reality is probably “idk, it just looked better to the one or two animators who worked on this shot.”

        • nickwitha_k (he/him)
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          2 days ago

          Maybe the holograms aren’t really 1:1 “images” but, instead, like avatars. This would also help to explain what the problem holographic communicator is able to get the whole body, including the back.

      • MintyAnt@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        3 days ago

        It’s how its shot. Star Trek (and anything modern I guess) is green screen and the second person edited in later. The actors are talking to nobody

        B5 uses CRTs, both actors are sitting in different parts of the set talking to each other live, because they could record that.

        The difference it makes is crazy. So much conversation is so much more natural due to it. Wish shows would make it happen again somehow

        • nickwitha_k (he/him)
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          2 days ago

          I think that The Expanse did a great job at leveraging the green screen thing for comms. Because they don’t have FTL, the less conversational feeling really works because, in-universe, they’re basically never speaking in real-time.

    • neuracnu@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      17
      ·
      edit-2
      3 days ago

      The first season is pretty bad, but necessary to set up the various arcs.

      Season 4 crammed the final two major plot arcs into it because they thought they were getting cancelled. But then they didn’t. Season 5 is almost entirely filler.

      In fact, once you finish Season 4, I’d recommend jumping right to the series finale (last episode of S5) and watching that. Then watch Season 5 from the beginning and think of it as a spin-off show that didn’t go anywhere.

      This was how I went through my last rewatch of the series a few years ago and it was perfect.

      • MintyAnt@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        3 days ago

        S1 is overall more watchable than I usually give it credit for, but there is some atrocious acting at times. And some of the sets are rough

        And maybe just skip the pilot.

        • wewbull@feddit.uk
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          2 days ago

          The pilot is an odd one. On one hand it does start some story arcs. On the other, the production is a rather large step off.

          Maybe it’s one to go back and watch at the end of S1.

    • GalacticGrapefruit@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      2 days ago

      It is, wholeheartedly, one of my most favorite shows of all time. It’s one of the ones that shaped me as a human being.

      Just try and give the exiting actors and resulting plot hiccups a little mercy. There was a lot happening in the real world for all of them, and some things are more important than television.

      • SatyrSackOP
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        2 days ago

        Just try and give the exiting actors and resulting plot hiccups a little mercy

        Sinclair > Sheridan

        Though I get that the actor had mental health issues and decided he would rather quit entirely than stall production and possibly lead to the show’s premature cancellation.

    • mosiacmango@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      3 days ago

      You know the episode of DS9 where Sisko and Garrick commit war crimes?

      It’s like that episode, the show.

      • Warl0k3@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        13
        ·
        3 days ago

        Only scifi show I can think of to present peace negotiations with the same degree of dramatic tension as they give to the rest of the war.

    • acockworkorange@mander.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      3 days ago

      It took me a while, so I’ll tell you it starts to pick up steam halfway through first season and hooks you before the first season finale.

    • teft@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      17
      ·
      3 days ago

      Don’t forget Brad Dourif as a creepy murderer and Brad Dourif as a creepy murderer

    • SatyrSackOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      3 days ago

      I did not grab the character names when I had made this chart, but here is a list of Babylon 5 actors who appeared in Star Trek. Data sourced from IMDb

      table
      Actor Star Trek 1 Star Trek 2 Star Trek 3 Star Trek 4 Star Trek 5
      Majel Barrett Star Trek Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: Enterprise Star Trek: The Next Generation Star Trek: Voyager
      Eric Pierpoint Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: Enterprise Star Trek: The Next Generation Star Trek: Voyager
      John Fleck Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: Enterprise Star Trek: The Next Generation Star Trek: Voyager
      Thomas Kopache Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: Enterprise Star Trek: The Next Generation Star Trek: Voyager
      Vaughn Armstrong Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: Enterprise Star Trek: The Next Generation Star Trek: Voyager
      John Vickery Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: Enterprise Star Trek: The Next Generation
      Michael Ansara Star Trek Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: Voyager
      Phil Morris Star Trek Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: Voyager
      Christopher Darga Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: Enterprise Star Trek: Voyager
      Jeffrey Combs Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: Enterprise Star Trek: Voyager
      John Schuck Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: Enterprise Star Trek: Voyager
      Aric Rogokos Star Trek: Enterprise Star Trek: Picard Star Trek: Voyager
      Patricia Tallman Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: The Next Generation Star Trek: Voyager
      Ron Canada Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: The Next Generation Star Trek: Voyager
      Glenn Morshower Star Trek: Enterprise Star Trek: The Next Generation Star Trek: Voyager
      Bruce Gray Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: Enterprise
      Erick Avari Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: Enterprise
      Robert Foxworth Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: Enterprise
      Walter Koenig Star Trek Star Trek: Picard
      Malachi Throne Star Trek Star Trek: The Next Generation
      Julie Caitlin Brown Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: The Next Generation
      Katherine Moffat Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: The Next Generation
      Roy Brocksmith Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: The Next Generation
      Tricia O’Neil Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: The Next Generation
      Andreas Katsulas Star Trek: Enterprise Star Trek: The Next Generation
      Brian Cousins Star Trek: Enterprise Star Trek: The Next Generation
      Mark Rolston Star Trek: Enterprise Star Trek: The Next Generation
      Gerrit Graham Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: Voyager
      J. Patrick McCormack Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: Voyager
      Jeff Austin Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: Voyager
      Leigh McCloskey Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: Voyager
      Marshall R. Teague Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: Voyager
      Patrick Kilpatrick Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Star Trek: Voyager
      Bill Blair Star Trek: Enterprise Star Trek: Voyager
      Christopher Neame Star Trek: Enterprise Star Trek: Voyager
      James Parks Star Trek: Enterprise Star Trek: Voyager
      Keith Szarabajka Star Trek: Enterprise Star Trek: Voyager
      Louis Ortiz Star Trek: Enterprise Star Trek: Voyager
      Nathan Anderson Star Trek: Enterprise Star Trek: Voyager
      Tucker Smallwood Star Trek: Enterprise Star Trek: Voyager
      Carel Struycken Star Trek: The Next Generation Star Trek: Voyager
      Carolyn Seymour Star Trek: The Next Generation Star Trek: Voyager
      Dwight Schultz Star Trek: The Next Generation Star Trek: Voyager
      Henry Darrow Star Trek: The Next Generation Star Trek: Voyager
      Josh Clark Star Trek: The Next Generation Star Trek: Voyager
      Judson Scott Star Trek: The Next Generation Star Trek: Voyager
      William Morgan Sheppard Star Trek: The Next Generation Star Trek: Voyager
      Jeff Corey Star Trek
      Victor Lundin Star Trek
      Adrienne Barbeau Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
      Art Chudabala Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
      Bennet Guillory Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
      Bernie Casey Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
      Bill Mumy Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
      Blair Valk Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
      Christopher Michael Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
      Clayton Landey Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
      Harry Hutchinson Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
      Jack Kehler Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
      James Black Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
      Julia Nickson Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
      Juliana Donald Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
      Kitty Swink Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
      Mary Kay Adams Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
      Mike Genovese Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
      Rosie Malek-Yonan Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
      Stephen Macht Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
      Tony Rizzoli Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
      Tracy Scoggins Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
      William Dennis Hunt Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
      Donovan Brown Star Trek: Discovery
      Brian Freifield Star Trek: Enterprise
      David A. Kimball Star Trek: Enterprise
      Diane DiLascio Star Trek: Enterprise
      Geoff Meed Star Trek: Enterprise
      Guy Siner Star Trek: Enterprise
      Jane Carr Star Trek: Enterprise
      Kate McNeil Star Trek: Enterprise
      Kris Iyer Star Trek: Enterprise
      Mark Ginther Star Trek: Enterprise
      Robert Rusler Star Trek: Enterprise
      Steven Lambert Star Trek: Enterprise
      Vince Deadrick Jr. Star Trek: Enterprise
      Warren Tabata Star Trek: Enterprise
      Merrin Dungey Star Trek: Picard
      Tamlyn Tomita Star Trek: Picard
      Beth Toussaint Star Trek: The Next Generation
      Clive Revill Star Trek: The Next Generation
      David L. Crowley Star Trek: The Next Generation
      David Sage Star Trek: The Next Generation
      David Warner Star Trek: The Next Generation
      Jim Norton Star Trek: The Next Generation
      John Christian Graas Star Trek: The Next Generation
      John Snyder Star Trek: The Next Generation
      Katy Boyer Star Trek: The Next Generation
      Ken Jenkins Star Trek: The Next Generation
      Lenore Kasdorf Star Trek: The Next Generation
      Marie Marshall Star Trek: The Next Generation
      Mark Bramhall Star Trek: The Next Generation
      Michelan Sisti Star Trek: The Next Generation
      Paul Winfield Star Trek: The Next Generation
      Reiner Schöne Star Trek: The Next Generation
      Robin Curtis Star Trek: The Next Generation
      Stephen Lee Star Trek: The Next Generation
      Theodore Bikel Star Trek: The Next Generation
      Andray Johnson Star Trek: Voyager
      Anthony Crivello Star Trek: Voyager
      Anthony De Longis Star Trek: Voyager
      Beverly Leech Star Trek: Voyager
      Bill Miller Star Trek: Voyager
      Brad Dourif Star Trek: Voyager
      Bruce McGill Star Trek: Voyager
      Christopher Curry Star Trek: Voyager
      Daunette Saunders Star Trek: Voyager
      David Anthony Marshall Star Trek: Voyager
      Don McMillan Star Trek: Voyager
      Ed Trotta Star Trek: Voyager
      Eric Steinberg Star Trek: Voyager
      Grace Harrell Star Trek: Voyager
      Greg Poland Star Trek: Voyager
      Ian Abercrombie Star Trek: Voyager
      Jean-Luc Martin Star Trek: Voyager
      Jim Portnoy Star Trek: Voyager
      Joey Sakata Star Trek: Voyager
      Joyce Lasley Star Trek: Voyager
      Justin Williams Star Trek: Voyager
      Kerry Hoyt Star Trek: Voyager
      Lou Slaughter Star Trek: Voyager
      Marie Chambers Star Trek: Voyager
      Marjorie Monaghan Star Trek: Voyager
      Marva Hicks Star Trek: Voyager
      Mel Winkler Star Trek: Voyager
      Michael Bailey Smith Star Trek: Voyager
      Michael Kagan Star Trek: Voyager
      Michael N. Fujimoto Star Trek: Voyager
      Mirron E. Willis Star Trek: Voyager
      Musetta Vander Star Trek: Voyager
      Pablo Espinosa Star Trek: Voyager
      Paul Williams Star Trek: Voyager
      Peter Wick Star Trek: Voyager
      Richard Chaves Star Trek: Voyager
      Robin Sachs Star Trek: Voyager
      Russ Fega Star Trek: Voyager
      Sam Alejan Star Trek: Voyager
      Simon Billig Star Trek: Voyager
      Susie Stillwell Star Trek: Voyager
      Tami Peterson Star Trek: Voyager
      • Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        3 days ago

        That listing was just off the top of my head. Though the funnier connection is Hague (Robert Foxworth) “died” in B5 because his agent double booked him on DS9 as Layton so they brought in Ryan (Bruce McGill). There is even a funny outtake where McGill references it. Even funnier is the producers intended to get Everett McGill but got names mixed up and got Bruce instead

        • VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          3 days ago

          If they were asked to find ‘that McGill guy’ nowadays they might have turned up Bob Odenkirk or Michael McKean.