bigender and agender people who identify or live as women are permitted to post here. This space is intended to be a women-only space, not a transphobic or gatekeeping one. Cis men and binary trans men who don’t identify as women are not women and don’t belong. Bigender people who are men and women are welcome if they choose.
Women only… trans women are women, and transphobic or gender critical talk isn’t allowed. Anyone under the trans umbrella (eg non binary) is welcome
Are you just suggesting the edit made to the sidebar be made to this body text as well, i.e. that instead the body text says:
Women only… trans women are women, and transphobic or gender critical talk isn’t allowed. Any woman-identified person under the trans umbrella (e.g. non-binary, bigender, agender) is welcome.
Not all bigender, agender, or non-binary people identify as women, being listed as examples of trans people who might identify as women and are welcome is not necessary for their inclusion, and the language before is actually more inclusive by stating “anyone under the trans umbrella is welcome”. I’m not sure what problem is being solved here.
EDIT2: After thinking on it, I guess the idea is that by explicitly listing that non-binary, agender, and bigender people who identify as women can participate might it make some people feel more welcome.
I don’t think there is anything necessarily wrong with this, but the rule should be read as general, and we don’t want to give the impression that only those kinds of trans people that are listed as examples can participate.
A trans man like Leslie Feinberg would also be welcome despite being much closer to a binary trans man, for example.
The rules are more like guidelines than narrowly applied laws, and I just want to avoid implying any variant that isn’t listed is somehow not as welcome, the guideline is meant to work that way (and variants not listed are just as welcome as those that are).
It’s the post body text on this current post we’re replying under.
men we appreciate your interest but please do not comment
If a bigender person who is a woman and a man read this, she’ll feel that she’s being told not to comment, because she’s a man. Excluding men will exclude some women, because some women are bigender men.
oh, you’re talking about the body text of this post? This is a meme post, not a rules or policy page.
We have seen participation from trans men without issue already, I don’t think this body text in a random post is going to make a huge difference - the rules and the sidebar already explicitly includes women-identifying bigender people.
Avoiding microaggressions is an important part of curating a space that feels inclusive. Explicit rules don’t do much to make minorities feel included if those minorities feel that the implicit rules are different from what’s being said. I saw a Reductress article a while ago that really speaks to this issue and made me think. Now, the accusation in the article isn’t what I think is going on here, and I don’t mean to be as confrontational as the article is, but I think it’s a really good read for anyone, and especially anyone curating a women’s space who wants to be trans inclusive.
Thanks non binary is included and I’ve put trans+
Right, but your post here says men aren’t welcome, and some trans women are also trans men. Gender isn’t a binary, it comes in infinite combinations.
Yes I know. In the UK we put trans+ for all genders under the trans umbrella
bigender and agender people who identify or live as women are permitted to post here. This space is intended to be a women-only space, not a transphobic or gatekeeping one. Cis men and binary trans men who don’t identify as women are not women and don’t belong. Bigender people who are men and women are welcome if they choose.
OP should edit the post body to avoid making women who are men feel like men are unwelcome.
Sorry, I’m not entirely following your statement, who do you consider “women who are men”?
EDIT: I assume you’re talking about this post’s body text:
Are you just suggesting the edit made to the sidebar be made to this body text as well, i.e. that instead the body text says:
Not all bigender, agender, or non-binary people identify as women, being listed as examples of trans people who might identify as women and are welcome is not necessary for their inclusion, and the language before is actually more inclusive by stating “anyone under the trans umbrella is welcome”. I’m not sure what problem is being solved here.
EDIT2: After thinking on it, I guess the idea is that by explicitly listing that non-binary, agender, and bigender people who identify as women can participate might it make some people feel more welcome.
I don’t think there is anything necessarily wrong with this, but the rule should be read as general, and we don’t want to give the impression that only those kinds of trans people that are listed as examples can participate.
A trans man like Leslie Feinberg would also be welcome despite being much closer to a binary trans man, for example.
The rules are more like guidelines than narrowly applied laws, and I just want to avoid implying any variant that isn’t listed is somehow not as welcome, the guideline is meant to work that way (and variants not listed are just as welcome as those that are).
It’s the post body text on this current post we’re replying under.
If a bigender person who is a woman and a man read this, she’ll feel that she’s being told not to comment, because she’s a man. Excluding men will exclude some women, because some women are bigender men.
oh, you’re talking about the body text of this post? This is a meme post, not a rules or policy page.
We have seen participation from trans men without issue already, I don’t think this body text in a random post is going to make a huge difference - the rules and the sidebar already explicitly includes women-identifying bigender people.
Avoiding microaggressions is an important part of curating a space that feels inclusive. Explicit rules don’t do much to make minorities feel included if those minorities feel that the implicit rules are different from what’s being said. I saw a Reductress article a while ago that really speaks to this issue and made me think. Now, the accusation in the article isn’t what I think is going on here, and I don’t mean to be as confrontational as the article is, but I think it’s a really good read for anyone, and especially anyone curating a women’s space who wants to be trans inclusive.
https://reductress.com/post/4-inclusive-statements-that-arent-women-and-non-binary-people-i-consider-women/