hopefully i don’t get called a lib for this but i have been feeling quite a bit of uncertainty when it comes to Jewish people who have been indoctrinated into Zionism and Americans , and partially people from other western nations , who have either due to economic distress or due to indoctrination joined the military . don’t get me wrong both are absolutely privileged , especially those Jewish people who live in occupied Palestine , however i feel that they aren’t fully responsible for their harmful beliefs . of course this doesn’t excuse acting on their beliefs , but from testimonies of people who have rid themselves of those beliefs its not an easy thing to do (i have been particularly affected by Matt Leib’s , of the BadHasbara podcast , comparison between fighting off his heroin addiction and his Zionism) .
they are of course not the people who are most victimised , however i feel somewhat uneasy about blaming them for not doing the work of deindoctrinating themselves , especially as , especially those who joined the American military , they are really mistreated . a lot of propaganda is explicitly about making those who benefit from the ideology maintained by it to feel unsafe , therefore , in their minds , justifying violent actions .
like this mostly matters for those who are on the path if deindoctrinating themselves , even if they themselves have not realised that yet , for example a ex military member who is struggling with trauma over actions they made in while deployed or someone who has been raised in a Israeli settlement questioning the morality of living there , beyond the usual labor Zionist stuff . i definetly don’t think that , sorry for the extreme example , someone who relives pressing down the trigger of a sniper riffle and the bloody effects of what happened after , especially if they were aware then or were made aware later that the person they killed was a noncombatant , that their actions were wrong . i think that helping them towards the realisation that its a wider issue is the better option .
like this isn’t very well put together but like just wanted to throw this out and have someone say if i’m not insane or just the usual over empathic stuff .
on language
feel free to replace each usage of “person” with “entity” , i wanted to make this more readable to those outside the ΘΔ space
It would seem to me a vicious cycle, and while cycles are certainly difficult and, the longer repeated, the more difficult they are to break; and with diligent, consistent effort, they most certainly can and are broken. Additionally, it fails where it’s always work and no play, because that is a huge cause of giving in to returning to a cycle, whether in conjunction with a government or societal institution which certainly has material interests in keeping the cycle repeating, even when it’s been somewhat destructive to the individual members of that culture or subculture, whether internally, externally or both. Then society complains about, and exacts some form of retribution for the natural consequences of that indoctrination. Psychological schisms lead to all sorts of material manifestations, none of them in the long term material interests of the culture, subculture, or individual. Immediate and intermediate gratification is extremely addictive to individual and institutions alike, and like most things that lean too far, for too long toward richness or leanness, undesirable manifestations begin to drip, then trickle, then flood individuals, institutions and whole cultures, in that order.
I absolutely agree on the difficulty, and additionally, the investment of time, effort and money. Notwithstanding, to my admittedly limited understanding, Spectrum B disorders are just that, on a spectrum that shifts in either direction to varying degrees, depending on the diagnosis and the afflicted individual. Moreover, it seems that while some of the afflicted are born that way, others are merely born with the potential that gets triggered by adverse conditions, in youth or as an adult. CPTSD can continue into full blown BPD, NPD, and even ASPD, left unabated and/or exacerbated long enough. It seems to me, for example, that if murderers can successfully be rehabilitated and reintegrated into Scandinavian societies, then the failure of programs like Operation Paperclip wasn’t in concept, but by design. We thought good jobs and a good enough material life and standard places of worship would patch up the multigenerational trauma of the body and psyche of those chosen for integration into US society, simultaneously having failed to address the same conditions that led to the same atrocities in our own society! The caveat is, forcing therapy, especially by woefully underqualified (whether in natural talent, training, or the ability to translate theory to practice) has the tremendous and demonstrated potential to do more harm than good. I think we should try anyway and am unequivocally opposed to the death penalty, unless the offender requests it, and relentless monotonous hard labor, unless the offender requests it, only to return to too small cages, overcrowded and unhygienic. I do believe better programs can and should be developed, and continue to be improved upon, post haste.
That leaves us with an urgent need for immediate intervention, and I still think it is better to convene a group of individuals who are trained in the necessary fields (medical, psychological, correctional, educational) to develop an actionable plan, instituted by well-trained, closely monitored personnel, before any intervention is undertaken, lest the situation is made worse, or we perpetuate the same atrocities we denounce, and continue the cycle anew.
If rehabilitation and reintegration fails, we address it case-by-case. Prison guards and medical personnel absolutely should be rotated out after a short time, maybe two years for guards, 3-5 for medical, so they can deal with healthier society and avoid becoming unwell themselves. Maybe they’d be interested in public parks, or art, or something, and after a time away, inform improvement plans for rehabilitative institutions and perhaps eventually allowed to do another short term rotation in the rehabilitative facility.
I’m sorry but i don’t understand what you’re trying to say. I don’t see how what you wrote relates to the topic of this post.
It’s late, but I wanted to come back to this momentarily. I think I was projecting too far, too fast. No revo is going to be perfect. We are perfectly imperfect beings, mistakes will be made, both revolutionary, and in any governmental and economical system that results thereater. My point is, in both, we can and should strive for as few as possible, because we want to establish that we are not exactly like what’s outgoing, or worse.
That may not happen immediately, but it can and should happen somewhat expeditiously.
ETA; as it stands, we may not be looking at revolution, but at filling a power vacuum, when the monied bail and leave the commoners without resources and unequipped to deal with massive, multiple crises, physically or psychologically. We’re going to need calm, steady presence.
I’ll sleep on it and reread it at some point in a few days. I’ll be pushed for time to clarify or reformulate a reply properly, until Monday or Tuesday.