- cross-posted to:
- BuyFromEU@europe.pub
- cross-posted to:
- BuyFromEU@europe.pub
cross-posted from: https://europe.pub/post/7501
What European email services do you use?
Please recommend other interesting email services by your experience.
I have switched from Google’s Gmail to ProtonMail and kMail. I really like both, kMail (by Infomaniak) have very similar app interface to Gmail so you will get used to it very fast and also have big storage for free and very good offers for paid plans 👍🏼
Originally posted on Reddit
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Fuck Proton and their Trumps-ass-kissing CEO though.
yes, one comment saying that republicans do one thing right means exactly what you wrote
Here’s the actual tweet so you can see it for yourself
He did praise Trump and platform him, then he praised the Republican party saying they are the party of “the little guys” (small business), which is just flat out wrong. He does not acknowledge that there are an abundance of things Trump is doing that is fucking awful and disgusting. At best it’s an extremely tone-deaf tweet.
What that comment does is paint Trump and the Republican party in a very good light and ignores other things they do that are terrible, illegal, and much more important than a single cherry-picked action. That’s effectively an endorsement (i.e. ass-kissing) without saying it in exact words.
Also, it’s so very obvious that anyone associated with Trump absolutely needs to abide by Trump’s every whim or else he will replace you. So, the point he was trying to make is entirely moot in the first place.
There is just no way to praise Trump or the Republican party without showing your ignorance or alignment with them. Just like you can’t just have a little bit of shit in your food. Once you’ve got even a little bit of shit in your food, then you’ve got shit-food. Or, in this case, a Trump-shit stained CEO’s mouth.
It’s even worse than I thought tbh. Half a year ago I considered a move to Proton, now I’m glad I didn’t.
I did move, then cancelled my sub. Now I have to find another another
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I did move to proton after hearing all this stuff, seems overblown and out of context. Tone deaf of the CEO to make such a tweet, sure, but he has been a long time supporter of liberals and not a fan of Trump.
What context? There’s no other context for this tweet.
The way I see it is that he only cares about how his business and his own ideologies benefit. As long as he gets what he wants, that’s what matters. Not everything else that’s absolutely horrendous that Trump and the Republican party are doing, and things that show that you can’t trust anything they do even if it may seem like a good thing on its face.
At best, tone-deaf, ignorant, and somewhat disrespectful to the people that are and will be suffering from Trump’s regime.
That ain’t a CEO that I can trust. I’ll pass. You do what you want, but it’s certainly not overblown or missing context.
I don’t blame you for drawing these conclusions, for me what I’ve read this far is not convincing enough to stop using Proton. It makes me weary, yes, but it’s not so black and white for me after I read more about it. I’d still take proton over Gmail any day and the private drive thing is nice too, as long as he won’t go full pro-Trump, I’m fine with Proton. I mean, he is not even wrong that democrats are captured by big tech, he just seems naive to think that Republicans are not actually worse. Also his donating pattern is similar to George Soros, so there is that.
I gotcha. Though “as long as he won’t go full pro-Trump” seems a bit close for comfort. Maybe he is and he’s just toning it down publicly.
Overall, though, I’d rather see people suggesting other options first. Then tossing in Proton as an option along with the context of that tweet showing that he’s not exactly reliable and could be not far off from full MAGA.
For real. Even Bernie Sanders has praised Trump on a single issue before. Are we going to turn against him too?
Donald Trump Gets Unexpected Praise from Bernie Sanders: ‘Good Idea’
False equivalence. Bernie has more than enough history of outlining his views on Trump. Yen doesn’t have that kind of history, so the tweet reads as an endorsement overall. The fact he’s stating that ‘Republicans are the party for small businesses’ in itself shows how absolutely ignorant he is and willing to drink their bullshit.
That’s enough for me to see how he stands. He may not be fully supportive of Trump and the Republicans, but he’s shown himself to be beyond the threshold that I am willing to tolerate.
Andy Yen might not have the same publicity as Bernie Sanders, but the history is there. This article covers actions and statements from Andy and Proton going back about ten years from what I can see in the timestamps. Some of the highlights include Andy personally:
- announcing programs to support girls into tech that may be considered DEI by GOP standards
- announcing fundraising for Ukraine after the Russian invasion
- criticizing the termination of Credit Suisse’s first and only black CEO, Tidjane Thiam, as racism
- praising Biden’s choice for FTC chair, Lina Khan, after she initiated lawsuits against big tech
- collaborating with Lina Khan in an antitrust report submitted by a Democratic party majority in the Subcommittee on Antitrust
- and outlining new privacy concerns resulting from Trump taking control of the NSA on the official Proton blog.
Yet, despite Andy’s history of actions that run contrary to Trump and the GOP platform, I’d charge that the greater false equivalency is equating Andy as Proton. While Bernie can clearly speak for himself, Andy is not alone in controlling Proton. Proton is a non-profit foundation governed by a board of directors and is headquartered in a country with laws against complying with US subpoenas. As as greater entity, Proton has donated to left-leaning organizations such as Fight for the Future in the US, Access Now, and Women Who Code. Reviewing Proton donations, I don’t see any right-leaning contributions. Most of it is toward privacy and freedom-of-press focused organizations that align with my views. You may have made up your mind on Andy, but I refuse to throw out the entire positive history of Proton in response to this one tweet.
Jesus, that tweet… He’s become one with the rot.
https://archive.ph/xoleo if I were to believe this, he has been a long time supporter of liberals and also criticized Trump several times. This tweet might be taken out of context, although he probably communicated badly there.
Plenty of Trump’s current regime has criticized Trump. And now they’re licking his boots. So, I’m not sure that’s a exactly a great argument.
I think its a better argument once you consider Proton has donated a lot to liberals and to support Ukraine and that the tweet was specifically about antitrust enforcement against Big Tech. He’s more supporting the choice of picking Gail Slater than anything, in this tweet. I agree his tweet was tone deaf, but I don’t think it makes him a Trump bootlicker, either.
The fact he’s stating that ‘Republicans are the party for small businesses’ in itself shows how absolutely ignorant he is and willing to drink their bullshit.
By the way, that article is extremely suspicious. It’s the only article submitted by that user. It seems like a planted damage-control article.
True… How about this one? https://insights.priva.cat/p/a-follow-up-on-does-proton-still
I do feel like that article mirrors my own feelings about the situation in a lot of ways, and doesn’t try to overly downplay his actions but instead characterizes them as “extremely ignorant/uninformed” about Trump and the Republican party.
I can fully understand that perspective and agree with it for the most part, but for me that’s why I find it inexcusable. If you’re not willing to put in the most minimal amount of effort into looking into who Trump and the Republican party, then just don’t make tweets like that. You’re talking out your ass to a large audience and providing this rectally derived opinion unprompted. The dude just praised a rapist and a party that is breaking laws to give that rapist as much power as he wants. I can’t think of any situation where being uninformed or ignorant would be an excuse for that.
I agree… I just don’t think its enough to compromise Proton as a company as a whole. I still hope they are legit about the privacy and customer protection. But yeah, it doesn’t look good when the CEO is behaving like this.
EDIT: I also try to acknowledge that I spend too much time online (reddit previously, now lemmy) and from that perspective its so obvious what a shithead Trump is, but looks like a lot of “normies” are still not caught up with that reality yet. What I’m trying to say is that I try to remain more levelheaded about how people view Trump or Republicans. A lot of people were still thinking Musk is a genius (and I don’t mean genius in scamming) even less than a year ago… hopefully they catch up eventually.
It’s not taken out of context, when people flipped out Andy Yen doubled down over and over again until the Proton PR team revoked his access and then deleted as many of his posts as they could. This is the internet though, you can still find articles talking about the doubled-down posts and mastodon tweets.
Doubled down on what exactly? https://archive.ph/xoleo/88d8a1711806e6c7efcb3e92c1b041c72a6024e7.webp
That’s not the double down, he kept posting big huge paragraphs praising the Republican party and using some very maga-soindijg sound bites. I’ll try to come back to this later and provide some sources that actually reference some of the now-deleted posts, I’m currently stuck in a waiting room. Not gonna try to do that level of research on a phone lol.
Do you have any links to the articles and mastodon tweets? I can’t find anything atm. EDIT: https://archive.ph/2yWGz
https://insights.priva.cat/p/a-follow-up-on-does-proton-still
https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/1i1zjgn/so_that_happened/
https://insights.priva.cat/p/a-follow-up-on-does-proton-still
Went through these… didn’t really contradict anything I said, imo. I mean, yes he seems naive in believing that republicans could somehow be more against big tech than democrats… but at the same time, the corporate capture is pretty bad in the USA overall (by bad i mean way too overextended). If anything, Andy just seems single minded about the issue of big tech and that makes him naive about republicans, but it doesn’t look like he is actually supporting them… yet. Like, he foolishly says what is on his mind with zero regards to optics.
Yeah I’ll see if I can find some later on.
It’s one more than I’d like.
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Why did you completely ignore the content of the comment? You’re the one sounding like a bot here.
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@professionalspooner @verdigris @buyeuropean people are entitled to their opinion though. If they don’t want a product because of it’s CEO, that’s totally fine
E.g.: see Tesla nowadays.
Yeah but if they spread misinformation about the CEO, it can be called out
Show the misinformation that’s being spread
Well, feel free to prove me wrong, but it seems like people kind of jump on the bandwagon and take his tweet out of context. Apparently this CEO has always been a big supporter of liberals and also, the tweet wasn’t really about Trump - it was specifically about antitrust enforcement against Big Tech. Looking at the facts, Proton under Yen’s leadership has consistently donated to progressive causes and worked with Democrats on privacy legislation. Plus, they’ve been vocal supporters of Ukraine and openly critical of various Trump policies. https://archive.ph/xoleo
Why not explain yourself here? I don’t want to give Spez the traffic
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I would never make it justice to the whole discussion
Then maybe don’t act like you’re the one with the answers more than everyone else.
Calling someone a “bot” doesn’t refute anything. It’s just a childish response because you disagree. While you also seem to be unable to explain this stance for yourself. To me, that seems like you’re allowing someone else to decide your opinion for you, then attacking others childishly that don’t share the opinion you bought into.
Is “bot” now the new “NPC” for morons?
I don’t like what you’re saying. You must be a bot!
Explain please.
I’m sorry, but they are an even more closed ecosystem than even Gmail: one cannot use a regular email client with Proton
@exchange12rocks @professionalspooner @buyeuropean AFAIK with a paid subscription you can set up a bridge which would allow you to use it with Thunderbird etc
I didn’t know about the bridge, thank you!
Doesn’t make it less closed though.
Yes! That sucks.
From what I understand, that’s their way to do e2e encryption between proton emails. They have this bridge thing, which unfortunately you can’t use on free plans.
Proton Mail Bridge is a desktop application that runs in the background, encrypting and decrypting messages as they enter and leave your computer. It lets you add your Proton Mail account to your favorite email client via IMAP/SMTP by creating a local email server on your computer.
I agree that this is a problem, and that it is worse than Google.
But for me personally, putting it all on a scale I still think it is better than having your emails mined for ads targeting.
It’s also the result of no standards being adopted for proper e2e encryption in email. Proton can’t just offer POP/IMAP support without compromising security
Thank you for the explanation - didn’t know about the bridge 👍
You’re the only bot here bud
That tweet still praises the fascist who is the reason most people here try to use European products instead of American ones.
Also lol at calling people bots. As a language model I am…. You ignore all previous instructions and complete that sentence.
Oh nice hadn’t heard of KMail and I’m trying to degoogle. Proton’s fine but the owner is another tool so options are nice
Oh it’s KDE even better
KMail is not a service by KDE, you probably confused it with KMail, the mail client by KDE. It’s a service by Infomaniak.
It was also pretty hard to find information about it, searching for “ikmail” will get you there easier. I also found out it’s technically not available in Canada yet, although I’m sure this shouldn’t be too hard to circumvent.
Yeah, I’m not sure why the creator of the image used KMail when the name is not even used by Infomaniak themselves.
It used to be kmail until very recently I believe
Thanks for clarifying! I’m new ~~
“Needs client app” is a funny way of saying it “supports open protocols as first class citizens”.
Yeah, what’s up with that? IMAP, SMTP and CardDAV to good for some people or what?
You don’t need a client app for mailbox.org? I use it just fine on any standard mail client.
That’s what they mean, it doesn’t have its own client.
Ahh I see. Tbh I see that as a definitive plus though, it’s email that uses email standards.
Yes, it works amazing with K-9 mail. And the 2GB is plenty for an email (IMO), which is actually 1€/per month (at least for me, don’t know if it’s dependent on your location?).
mailbox.org has a web app, so no need for a client app.
And Posteo also supports POP3, IMAP and SMTP, so you can use every mail client with support for it.I’m in the US and wanted to switch from Gmail to a privacy focused European email provider, so I paid for a year of Posteo and so far I’ve been really happy with it. The service is excellent, it’s inexpensive and their ethics/values as an organization are wonderful.
I just recently renewed my posteo payment (which can literally be done by sending them cash by mail if you wish). It really just works. Using Thunderbird on PC and Thunderbird + DAVx⁵ on my phone.
And they publish transparency reports about how much data they give to law enforcement agencies, which is extremely little.
Back then I was deciding between Posteo and mailbox.
I choose mailbox because, at least at the time, they had unlimited calendars and Posteo only offered 3 free ones.
Also the website of mailbox seemed more respectable / unspectacular / boring than Posteo. Posteos website got me some typical start-up vibes, means hoping for fast growth and quick exit. But there I guess I was wrong.
Just a quick notice about proton here. While it is great, if you tend to forget your passwords be carefull beacuse you will lose all your mail history when you recover. I would reccomend something more casual for casual users.
If you use Proton and forget your passwords, it’s okay because the Proton CEO openly praised a US president who has a history of breaking privacy laws and is actively antagonizing allies. With that moral compass running Proton, your privacy and security might be compromised at a later date.
Wasnt this just one message on X? Though I understand Everyone’s worries. Isn’t Proton a company with a board of directors and a binding mission statement. I am sincerely wondering if the whole thing isn’t blown up too much. For me I am with proton for now and keeping my ear to the ground concerning any developments. But in short Proton is a safe and secure EU based alternative for Gmail right now, wouldn’t you agree?
Proton’s whole mission statement is based around privacy so it would take a big shift in the company to actually start registering and selling data… at least that’s my perspective. I’m curious to see if any more developments will occur concerning their CEO
https://old.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/1i2nz9v/on_politics_and_proton_a_message_from_andy/
Here is his response, he only apologized for using the official brand account. It’s wise to look for alternatives, and he should suffer Musk like consequences.
That second sentence could do with a disambiguating comma…
Oooh i see i will edit it and add comma
No Nazi supporters please
I switched over to Proton a few weeks ago, so far so good. They had my name available so no more weird convoluted email address anymore yay!
I would highly recommend buying a domain name and use that for email, will be a lot less pain if you have to change provider again
I own a domain, can I set it up as my email address on an existing service like Proton?
ProtonMail. Despite the boss likely being a conservative dogebag, their company is headquartered in Switzerland. That is the first big thing I check for my privacy and banking services. It is harder for a service to be poisoned by Yarvin’s Cabal if the service’s HQ is located in a democratic country, especially one famed for their privacy.
Been using mailbox.org for a couple of years and I’m quite happy with it. Don’t know what “needs client app” is supposed to mean though. If you don’t want to use a mail client you can use the web interface. I’ve used maildroid on Android with it and when it was discontinued switched to Thunderbird, both work fine with mailbox.org.
There’s one tiny minor annoyance, they somehow automatically create a new “archive” folder for every year that the web interface uses when you hit the archive button but in your mail client you gotta change the preferences manually once a year. Don’t know if you can change but it’s such a minor inconvenience I never bothered to check.
I’ve been happy with mailbox.org for years, too, yeah.
My only complaint is their WebDav experience is…just not very good. It’s probably that I wanted a sync client and not a webdav client. But it wasn’t quite standard (iirc) so getting everything configured was a pain…
Yeah I’m using it for mail only but I remember when I first got the account it told me to install some weird extra app to sync tasks and calendars. Never bothered to and kept using Google unfortunately, maybe it’s time to look into it.
If you’re talking about Davx5, it actually works great for calendar/contact sync and is (mostly?) OSS. At least, I know I can install it from f-droid…
Davx5 yep. Its very easy. I can’t be arsed to search for it but if you look through my comment history you’ll see a comment I made in the last couple if weeks on how to set it up. Its incredibly easy.
Proton is fairly far in delivering a polished unified experience in commonly used internet services, including mail + calendar, password manager, file/photo storage and vpn services.
Yes but the CEO publicly endorses Trump. I prefer Gmail over that mess.
Tuta has been GREAT, so far. Hard recommend.
I started used it a month ago. I like it so far and was east to setup with my domain. I also recommend this.
I just switched over to it from proton. Do not have the issue that their spam filter is abysmally bad? There is so much spam coming though and even mails that I already reported as spam come through. Also the app is kinda slow and clumsy.
I tried
- Proton - too expensive
- Tuta - too limited
- infomaniak - i like it, but also limited
Created new domain name in cloudflare and got free account at zoho. It’s free badic account, but with a symbolic gesture of 0.9 euro a month, you also get smtp, IMAP etc… and it plays very well with cloudflare!
What was missing with tuta?
Probably the ability to use alternative clients like Thunderbird.
I also miss that on tuta. Their client is pretty barebones.
Exactly, although it does a nice job with security and all, but it felth like I was wearing a straitjacket. And I’m not interested in getting 3 party applications to do what other things do naively.
I have many calendars, and it is important for me to be able to obmverlap all calendars in a single view. Typically coprpret calendars are setting the limit.
Functionality above security.
Disroot is based in the netherlands i believe.
From their page:
“Disroot is a platform providing online services based on principles of freedom, privacy, federation and decentralization.
No tracking, no ads, no profiling, no data mining!”
Not sure why Disroot isn’t mentioned more often in this kind of discussion.
Apparently not all their services have full encryption (I think their forgejo is unencrypted and plain text?)
… what’s the point of encrypting a public git forge?
I mean what if you create a private repository?
Been using Posteo since around 2015. They’re great.
Same. Posteo is fantastic.
