It’s not even that it’s “bad” therapy exactly. It’s clearly well intentioned and thoughtful, with a lot of thought put into it, and that’s a lot more than some people get from therapy if stories are any indication (and better than some other experiences I’ve had with it). But the part that shows up over and over again in the background is how focused it is on the individual. It sounds like it sort of makes sense at first, you are there to address your own problems, after all. But the thing is that a therapist has no solutions for what is beyond that. And the solution they often do have, in my experience, is some form of rugged individualism; be better at being you in a vacuum because you can’t control others and most things are outside of your control.

Self-improvement can be a thing, I don’t think that’s somehow wrong. Healing from trauma can be a thing. But the most abled, neurotypical, “healthy” of individuals in western capitalist society are still dealing with a lot of bullshit from capitalism itself and its consequences. Maybe I just wish people in mental health would call attention to that. I don’t expect the existing society to casually teach people how to be revolutionaries. But that doesn’t make it any less frustrating when you go to get help and feel like you’re being asked to either pretend a huge portion of what impacts you is not a factor, or take it like it’s some kind of inevitable stress of life and just cope.

It’s like this sort of “it doesn’t get better out there, so you have to make it better in here” is the best way I can think to put it. Like tacitly giving up on a fundamentally better world, even if that’s not the conscious intention.

  • amemorablename@lemmygrad.mlOP
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    14 days ago

    It makes sense to me as therapy language, but some of it feels like it’s missing the mark on what I was talking about and where I’m coming from on this, which is unfortunately an experience I tend to see happen in therapy as well. It’s nothing personal and I emphasize over and over that I think my therapist means well (and I truly believe they do and I believe you mean well too). But there’s this thing I see therapists and/or those well-versed in therapy language do, where they come at something not with a tone of investigation, but a tone of what I can best describe in this moment as “gentle defensive individualism.” By this I mean, contrary to how they couch things in the language they use, the focus is not actually on the person they are talking to as a subjectively experiencing individual who can only be fully understood with in-depth investigation of their history, conditions, and quirks (and whose differences could be dangerous to the status quo). The focus is on an abstract representation of what healthy individual social behavior and thinking looks like, often through some kind of models containing “unhealthy” and “healthy” and then that is transplanted onto the current situation, whether it fits well or not. This is not a broad accusation that therapists aren’t ever doing investigation; they do and I’ve seen some of it firsthand. But I also see a fair amount of rushing to generalized conclusions in therapy language and in the way problems presented to a therapist get contextualized.

    It may sound like I’m ignoring some of what you’re saying in the content of it, but the alternative I could think of would be to go through it beat by beat and I don’t think that would convey properly what is going on, as I see it. I also suspect that much of it would be me saying “I more or less agree, but that’s not really what I meant.” I will directly address one point though, that of abuse of power and the point of the role, and that’s to say that therapists cannot be unbiased no matter how hard they try to be and I think that needs to be acknowledged in the dynamic. You cannot compartmentalize your ideology and then act in a neutral way, outside of it. You might be able to act upon a different ideology, while compartmentalizing your real one, but it is still biased by ideology either way. Or to put it another way, no matter whether a therapist has any intent to abuse power, they are still furthering some kind of belief or framework about the world.

    A person is putting their most vulnerable mental states in the therapist’s hands and the therapist is given a kind of power of influence over it, out of view of everyone else (unless the client shares their recollection of the session with others). The expectation, similar to an MD, is that the therapist will have expertise and solutions beyond the client’s understanding, which will help them live better. But if a therapist’s techniques are stuck in generalist modeling of the world born from a neoliberal, colonial framework of thinking, then the solutions will tend to be whatever is most aligned with that. I don’t think it’s a stretch to assume a connection there. I don’t think the therapist even necessarily needs to believe in it explicitly as concrete political ideology. If the tactics themselves are not neutral, then it matters little what the therapist personally believes; what matters more is what bias is carried in the tactics. The more important question, then, in my mind is the consideration of those tactics and what is behind them. So, there is the explicit promotion of ideology and then there is the implicit promotion of it, and it’s the implicit that is there no matter what, but that therapy language can sometimes obfuscate and which liberalism has a common practice of obfuscating more generally so that “we can all get along” (the contradictions swept under the rug).

    • UhhhDunkDunk@lemmygrad.ml
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      13 days ago

      Totally, and thanks for such a comprehensive, though targeted response(i just mean i get you didn’t respond to everything and I get the “I more or less agree, but that’s not really what I meant.” vibe)- what your saying makes more sense to me now. Also, just to name- I don’t think me not fully understanding what you are/were trying to say has anything to do with me being a therapist per say, could just be a feature of two people passing notes about really complex ideas on the internet and I agree with you, I think we are both in this exchange fully in good faith. Everything from your OP(and this one) seemed sincere and I hope my response felt that way too.

      Hearing this idea of ‘gentle defensive individualism’, I also wanna put out there again- maybe not the right fit. It sounds like you’re experiencing some alienation in the session, which is at the very least something to identify and explore between yall and potentially a less lib (individualist) clinician could be more effective…maybe? I do hear you saying you feel like they’re often trying to put things in a box- which is annoying to me as a clinician- Thats what we do for insurance companies: pretend to reduce a full, dynamic, complex human being into a dozen sheets of paper to get a stamp. Best practice we ought be doing for a cl is ‘tailor made’ tx tho.(edit: so if you aren’t feeling that, something may be off)

      and 100, no such thing as un-biased, not how humans work and implicit bias regarding everything is totally baked in, best we do is name it, get good at recognizing it (retroactively, then next) in the moment, and then attempt to make intentional decisions around it. I am curious about what tactics you see as being liberally biased? I also hear something like the ideas your being presented with don’t acknowledge that things are fucked up, or that we live in a racist, sexist, classist, capitalist world(I’ll add on here something like “rooted in time”-like I would be awful at therapy for someone who was alive 150yrs ago cause our biases and context are so radically diverged- even if we were mostly using a technique, like EMDR or CBT or something)- which also annoys me! Because obviously we do and just like implicit bias, name it; recognize it; make intentional decisions around it- attempting to ignore it is literally the worst outcome decision.

      Again, I’m circling back to, it might be the match that isn’t quiet right, I have a lot of commie LAC/LPC/LMSW, etc homies who normatively name some of the above things, as is appropriate. I know this is going on and on and I hope you know I’m not trying to defend any of your helpful well meaning or otherwise therapists- I will say, in my personal experience therapists that are POC; LGBTQ+; trans affirming; not native to USA(im in the usa) are more likely to have competency in addressing the impacts that normative society has on folks. sorry for writing such a big response- also feel free to DM, happy to continue the convo in whatever space works, if you’d like.