It’s not even that it’s “bad” therapy exactly. It’s clearly well intentioned and thoughtful, with a lot of thought put into it, and that’s a lot more than some people get from therapy if stories are any indication (and better than some other experiences I’ve had with it). But the part that shows up over and over again in the background is how focused it is on the individual. It sounds like it sort of makes sense at first, you are there to address your own problems, after all. But the thing is that a therapist has no solutions for what is beyond that. And the solution they often do have, in my experience, is some form of rugged individualism; be better at being you in a vacuum because you can’t control others and most things are outside of your control.
Self-improvement can be a thing, I don’t think that’s somehow wrong. Healing from trauma can be a thing. But the most abled, neurotypical, “healthy” of individuals in western capitalist society are still dealing with a lot of bullshit from capitalism itself and its consequences. Maybe I just wish people in mental health would call attention to that. I don’t expect the existing society to casually teach people how to be revolutionaries. But that doesn’t make it any less frustrating when you go to get help and feel like you’re being asked to either pretend a huge portion of what impacts you is not a factor, or take it like it’s some kind of inevitable stress of life and just cope.
It’s like this sort of “it doesn’t get better out there, so you have to make it better in here” is the best way I can think to put it. Like tacitly giving up on a fundamentally better world, even if that’s not the conscious intention.
Basically this
Or in the case of non-pill tactics, change your thought patterns, so you accept that “it’s always been like this throughout history” and “focus on what’s in your control.” 🫠
it’s always been like this throughout history
After all, as one German therapist said, “The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.”
Psych isn’t my field, but in dietetics and nutrition there’s a tendency to treat socioeconomic and societal issues (aka material conditions) as kind of a force of nature. This isn’t true for 100% of people in the field, but the ones that do catch on tend to end up in policy, advocacy, public health or other niches that actually try to work on systemic issues rather than in clinical settings. I wouldn’t be surprised if psych was similar; it’s not that those issues aren’t acknowledged by the field as a whole, but the individuals who end up in clinical settings don’t focus on them for whatever reason. There’s likely a lot more behind the scenes who are actually working for change, you just don’t see them because they’re not working with individuals.
Interesting, thanks for your perspective on it.
I had a couple hours free before work today and my cursed brain won’t let shit like this go without looking it up, so I went and did a quick scan of the literature. Like I said, it’s outside my field so I’m probably missing a lot of nuance (and I welcome any actual psychs to check in and correct me), but Psychiatric Epidemiology is a thing, and they’re well aware of the association between socioeconomic position and mental health. These seem to be the people working on policy, for example building an evidence base for UBI. Of course all that relies on governments that actually give a shit and are willing to listen to evidence, but yeah, class-conscious psychs are out there. They’re just not taking clients.
After engaging with these topics and having spent quite a lot of time in therapy I have also realized that capitalism is the cause of most mental health issues (or at least aggravates them to an extreme level), and mental health care exists to get you back to work. Because it has to work within the system which is causing the sickness it cannot address the core issues and is left with individualist band-aids.
I def feel that pull at times. Even though I think my therapist genuinely means well and wants for me to get my needs met, even though they seem overall patient with my progress, the curve of it def seems bent toward “get back on track” and the track is the status quo.
get back on track
In my experience it is very often the major goal behind that: Being able to work again. Even if doing trauma specific therapy, its quite usual that it is somewhere centered around that. This can be exhausting.
I had a whiplash moment in therapy (an intense inpatient program) where I was feeling the best I could remember feeling, but at the same time felt really sad about it because feeling good and being healthy means I have to go back to doing wage labour.
Bias warning- I’m a therapist and a Marxist. Sounds like you’ve got a mixed experience and are feeling a mixed connection with your therapist- which is technically the biggest indicator of success in therapy- if you vibe with your therapist. That said, it sounds like your also asking a lot and some of what your asking may be specifically unethical from a therapists code of conduct. I don’t get to tell you or anyone who to vote for; what religion you should be in; how you should perceive class relations; or if you should overthrow any particular economic system with a protracted people’s war; etc. That would specifically be an abuse of power and will(rightfully so) cost your clinician their license. Therapists are not labor organizers, nor do they know how change the socio-political climate of any country in the western world better than anyone else and they specifically have an obligation to keep their personal beliefs to themselves(no matter how much you want to suggest lenin’s ‘what is to be done’.)
And I get it, most people on here have had bad experiences in therapy(or at least the people that are vocal about therapy). That said, it is individual work unless you are doing couples or group work. That’s part of the therapist privilege and also their limitations- for 50 minutes I don’t care about your relationship with your father beyond how it effects you- bad relationship- cut the mfr out, good relationship- lets continue to use this as a support. Similarly, in couples counseling- my client is the relationship, I don’t care about either of the members of the couple other than how they support and/or do not support the relationship through their behaviors and thoughts.
That said, whenever politics comes up in a session my usual blurb is “we can talk about this as much as you want, and you’ll find that I am going to consistently bring it back to you and how it impacts you and how we support and protect you, and you’ll also notice we will not be discussing any of my beliefs or values.” Therapy isn’t about me- it is about you, I watch clients fight their own class interests all the time but that’s not my job in the therapeutic setting and it is a very sacred trust(to me at least). I am only here to support your mental well-being(literally no one else’s in your life or community and) that’s why it is 70% effective, because there isn’t a conflict of interest, I remove all my personal interests as best as possible and we are only there to focus on you. Idk if that makes sense, but I thought I’d offer it- maybe it can help in figuring out how to get more out of your sessions, or in exploring if you may need to look for another outlet to best engage in activist/organizing works. Edit: spelling
It makes sense to me as therapy language, but some of it feels like it’s missing the mark on what I was talking about and where I’m coming from on this, which is unfortunately an experience I tend to see happen in therapy as well. It’s nothing personal and I emphasize over and over that I think my therapist means well (and I truly believe they do and I believe you mean well too). But there’s this thing I see therapists and/or those well-versed in therapy language do, where they come at something not with a tone of investigation, but a tone of what I can best describe in this moment as “gentle defensive individualism.” By this I mean, contrary to how they couch things in the language they use, the focus is not actually on the person they are talking to as a subjectively experiencing individual who can only be fully understood with in-depth investigation of their history, conditions, and quirks (and whose differences could be dangerous to the status quo). The focus is on an abstract representation of what healthy individual social behavior and thinking looks like, often through some kind of models containing “unhealthy” and “healthy” and then that is transplanted onto the current situation, whether it fits well or not. This is not a broad accusation that therapists aren’t ever doing investigation; they do and I’ve seen some of it firsthand. But I also see a fair amount of rushing to generalized conclusions in therapy language and in the way problems presented to a therapist get contextualized.
It may sound like I’m ignoring some of what you’re saying in the content of it, but the alternative I could think of would be to go through it beat by beat and I don’t think that would convey properly what is going on, as I see it. I also suspect that much of it would be me saying “I more or less agree, but that’s not really what I meant.” I will directly address one point though, that of abuse of power and the point of the role, and that’s to say that therapists cannot be unbiased no matter how hard they try to be and I think that needs to be acknowledged in the dynamic. You cannot compartmentalize your ideology and then act in a neutral way, outside of it. You might be able to act upon a different ideology, while compartmentalizing your real one, but it is still biased by ideology either way. Or to put it another way, no matter whether a therapist has any intent to abuse power, they are still furthering some kind of belief or framework about the world.
A person is putting their most vulnerable mental states in the therapist’s hands and the therapist is given a kind of power of influence over it, out of view of everyone else (unless the client shares their recollection of the session with others). The expectation, similar to an MD, is that the therapist will have expertise and solutions beyond the client’s understanding, which will help them live better. But if a therapist’s techniques are stuck in generalist modeling of the world born from a neoliberal, colonial framework of thinking, then the solutions will tend to be whatever is most aligned with that. I don’t think it’s a stretch to assume a connection there. I don’t think the therapist even necessarily needs to believe in it explicitly as concrete political ideology. If the tactics themselves are not neutral, then it matters little what the therapist personally believes; what matters more is what bias is carried in the tactics. The more important question, then, in my mind is the consideration of those tactics and what is behind them. So, there is the explicit promotion of ideology and then there is the implicit promotion of it, and it’s the implicit that is there no matter what, but that therapy language can sometimes obfuscate and which liberalism has a common practice of obfuscating more generally so that “we can all get along” (the contradictions swept under the rug).
well said
Totally, and thanks for such a comprehensive, though targeted response(i just mean i get you didn’t respond to everything and I get the “I more or less agree, but that’s not really what I meant.” vibe)- what your saying makes more sense to me now. Also, just to name- I don’t think me not fully understanding what you are/were trying to say has anything to do with me being a therapist per say, could just be a feature of two people passing notes about really complex ideas on the internet and I agree with you, I think we are both in this exchange fully in good faith. Everything from your OP(and this one) seemed sincere and I hope my response felt that way too.
Hearing this idea of ‘gentle defensive individualism’, I also wanna put out there again- maybe not the right fit. It sounds like you’re experiencing some alienation in the session, which is at the very least something to identify and explore between yall and potentially a less lib (individualist) clinician could be more effective…maybe? I do hear you saying you feel like they’re often trying to put things in a box- which is annoying to me as a clinician- Thats what we do for insurance companies: pretend to reduce a full, dynamic, complex human being into a dozen sheets of paper to get a stamp. Best practice we ought be doing for a cl is ‘tailor made’ tx tho.(edit: so if you aren’t feeling that, something may be off)
and 100, no such thing as un-biased, not how humans work and implicit bias regarding everything is totally baked in, best we do is name it, get good at recognizing it (retroactively, then next) in the moment, and then attempt to make intentional decisions around it. I am curious about what tactics you see as being liberally biased? I also hear something like the ideas your being presented with don’t acknowledge that things are fucked up, or that we live in a racist, sexist, classist, capitalist world(I’ll add on here something like “rooted in time”-like I would be awful at therapy for someone who was alive 150yrs ago cause our biases and context are so radically diverged- even if we were mostly using a technique, like EMDR or CBT or something)- which also annoys me! Because obviously we do and just like implicit bias, name it; recognize it; make intentional decisions around it- attempting to ignore it is literally the worst outcome decision.
Again, I’m circling back to, it might be the match that isn’t quiet right, I have a lot of commie LAC/LPC/LMSW, etc homies who normatively name some of the above things, as is appropriate. I know this is going on and on and I hope you know I’m not trying to defend any of your helpful well meaning or otherwise therapists- I will say, in my personal experience therapists that are POC; LGBTQ+; trans affirming; not native to USA(im in the usa) are more likely to have competency in addressing the impacts that normative society has on folks. sorry for writing such a big response- also feel free to DM, happy to continue the convo in whatever space works, if you’d like.
When I was looking up CBT on Wikipedia because a friend of mine wanted to start it, I came down to the “critisisms” section and found a very interesting blog which might be worth a read.
https://melbournelacanian.wordpress.com/2014/02/03/a-critique-of-cbt-as-ideology-part-1/
I would argue most modern forms of therapy aren’t actually on the side of the individual, even if they seem like they are. They can’t address certain things that would empower you as an invidual, because it would be dangerous and also just not profitable.
And imo therapists don’t need to address or even recognize societal or economic problems, it’s out of their scope.
Anyway, take the blogposts with a grain of salt, I don’t know how accurate the critisism actually is.
Thanks for sharing it. Throughout reading it, I kept reviewing my experiences with therapy and comparing, going like, “Are they doing CBT? Oh no…” Best I can conclude, I don’t think they are as a forceful, streamlined practice, but they do seem to pull out elements of it like from a grab-bag of tools, or as a fallback when they don’t know what else to do with what I’ve said. The interesting thing though, is it got me thinking more about where the “pain points” are in therapy for me, for lack of a better phrase, and I think (I suppose unsurprisingly, if you consider the social tendencies of human beings) that I’m most happy at the end of sessions where I feel understood and supported, and most mixed or disturbed at the end of sessions where I feel misunderstood or like I have primarily been given a refresher on Mayo Clinic style descriptions of how I supposedly function and what I can do to fix it.
This line in particular from the article/essay stood out to me, so I took note of it:
As ever in psychology, qualitative phenemona are distorted to the point of destruction when forced to submit to some quantitative fetish.
So something like (I’m making this up as an example, not citing from actual anxiety measurement charts): an English language statement with a personal and subjective history behind it like “I feel anxiety when talking to other people” gets transformed into a +1 on a measurement for “anxiety disorder” and then if you get enough +'s, you get a diagnosis with anxiety disorder. This diagnosis is then treated as if it is identical to all other forms of anxiety (because it is now a neatly categorized and studied disorder), you get told it’s being perpetuated by all of the same sources (the “mind and body”, sources which are always internal… and this is a critical part, them being always internal makes them non-falsifiable and so easy to universalize across culture, background, etc., and pave over with a statistics-based aesthetic of empiricism), and can be “fixed” with the same generalized solutions (bring your thinking and behavior back in line with the status quo from wherever it has gone off to that is incompatible with it).
This is not to argue there isn’t any commonality in psychological struggle. There probably is a lot of commonality, at least within same cultures and conditions. But the particular problem form of clinical commonality I’m focusing on, which relates to what the article is talking about in my interpretation of it, is a commonality developed out of a very distorted and biased lens, and one which puts on a pretense of not being a distorted and biased lens, and that presents major problems.
Me too comrade, as someone who has been through a lot of traumatic and unjust shit in my life therapy always left a bitter taste in my mouth as what I wanted wasnt just my own peace of mind, but restorative justice; I wanted what happened to me to never happen to anyone else.
So what if im ok?
Other people are going through the same as me and they arent!
It just never felt fair you know?
Im smart enough to know that their is no entirely unique lifestory, if you’re experiencing something its because it has a material base, and as such other people are also going through it as well.
I also feel the pressure of therapy not to make things better, but to provide me with enough behavioral psychology reprogramming that I can numb myself to the pain rather than again, actually dealing with the root causes that keep reproducing these outcomes.
It feels like the bandaid handed down by capitalists as they saw your legs off.
No justice, no peace - liberal and class society is inherently unfair and proletarian justice would fix that.
I also feel the pressure of therapy not to make things better, but to provide me with enough behavioral psychology reprogramming that I can numb myself to the pain rather than again, actually dealing with the root causes that keep reproducing these outcomes.
I think I know what you mean here. Not to say my experience is one of therapists never trying to get me to do anything different (there is that too, in my experience) but there is also a certain degree of “fix the thought patterns” stuff that I hear, which seems more about “bearing the cross” than dealing with the sources of suffering directly. Not that it’s presented to me as religious in my case, but it does remind me in this moment of the Christian and Catholic connotations to do with suffering.
Often my issues with therapy is how much there’s little to be done, specially when they decide that “actually you should consult a psychiatrist”. There are sorts of problems that are too common, specially for disabled people, that could easily be solved by some intervention. But oftentimes the only solutions are individual, not because of therapy itself but rather because the social services for those are rather scarce or nonexistent.