Hey, as a non-authoritarian leftist, I can assure that MLs are just a subset that really wants to pretend they’re spearheading the Left to fulfill their bloodbath fantasies. There’s lots of us that don’t like them and aren’t like them at all.
Anarchists: Are we a joke to you? Yes? Fair enough. We’ll be over listening to folk punk and reminiscing about Dr. King being right in his Letter from Birmingham Jail.
The extremists in the anarchist movement are the ones who pretend everyone would just work together fine and self-organize if there was no government at all, aren’t they? Or am I thinking of a different group.
Those aren’t extremists, they’re children. I’m not saying that as an insult, I mean it literally.
Actual, practicing anarchists are extremely bureaucratic. Ironically, anarchy in practice produces large, democratic governments that change slowly. Hilariously, a small republican government is best suited for making rapid progress. Note the lower case (d) and (r) - I’m referring to ideology, and not political parties.
Anarchists create institutions that reflect democratic values, and when everyone must be given a chance to have a say, meetings are huge and take for-fucking-ever (speaking from lived commune experience here). Cliques and factions form and work together to shut down proposals they don’t like. Its actually a very conservative ideology - nothing changes quickly.
Very fair points and thanks for the acknowledgement that those who think that abolishing political structures will solve everything are not really ideological extremists but, at best, extremely naïve and in need of personal growth.
There are so many flavors but, without some form of non-democratic structure (or, I don’t know, high-speed telepathy?), rapid change is indeed not readily possible in most anarchic systems, without a unifying external force like a disaster. I don’t think that that’s necessarily a bad thing though. In current social structures, the populace has been forced to go faster and be more productive so that the ultra-wealthy and others high in the socioeconomic hierarchy can enjoy their leisure. A lot of people suffering from mental health problems rooted in stress and anxiety would be greatly benefited by this changing.
I’d say that those “extremists” are more likely people who are young (either biologically or in exposure to anarchic philosophy) and a bit naïve. They may have their heart in the right place from the perspective of those of us who have been about for a while but, likely are lacking in real-world experience with anarchic social circles and challenges that they have (wreckers, narcissists, cliques, etc).
What you’re mentioning is more of the shallow view of anarchism that’s most frequently portrayed as the alternative to the other popular Mad Max view that right-of-center groups like to use to portray “anarchy”. Neither are great at showing the full gamut of anarchic philosophy nor particularly accurate portrayals of extant or historical approaches to non-hierarchical societies.
Big up to the Anarchists. I’d love to be one but the best I could do is some evenings and every other weekend. I’ve become a decadent westerner in the last couple of decades. Sad face.
To me, the most important role of anarchism is as a “North Star”. My ideal society (something like anarcho-syndicalism) is not going to happen in my life. Easier to accept as a full adult. However, that doesn’t mean abandoning the ideals. It means examining them and the pre-conditions necessary to achieve them. Things like cultivating community and encouraging pro-social behaviors that are necessary to change culture for the better over time.
Maybe when xers, millennials, zoomers, and alphas are and to finally take the reins and have some semblance of control over their own lives we will be able to see more change but for now, building and support is needed so that we don’t repeat things like the failed revolution in Iran that led to a theocracy.
Thank you for your inspirational pep talk. I hear what you say. I especially like that you have hope in the coming generations. I’m gonna go away and reflect on my cynicism now.
Like, MLs are doing literally what Marx saw in 1848 and spent the rest of his life firmly against - you can’t just will a revolution into existence. Even if the world would be better if you could. You can make a good go of it, you can die nobly in the attempt, you can even maybe overthrow the current elite - but what comes next is not going to be socialist, it’s not going to be a worker’s state, and very likely it’s not going to last. No matter how hard you believe in the virtue and intellect of your vanguard party.
Everyone’s just throwing away their masks left and right. Left is becoming full-blown marxist/leninist, right is becoming actual nazis.
Hey, as a non-authoritarian leftist, I can assure that MLs are just a subset that really wants to pretend they’re spearheading the Left to fulfill their bloodbath fantasies. There’s lots of us that don’t like them and aren’t like them at all.
as if there’s not enough killing all over the world and in our very schools, these fucks always want some kind of civil war.
sick fucks.
Anarchists: Are we a joke to you? Yes? Fair enough. We’ll be over listening to folk punk and reminiscing about Dr. King being right in his Letter from Birmingham Jail.
The extremists in the anarchist movement are the ones who pretend everyone would just work together fine and self-organize if there was no government at all, aren’t they? Or am I thinking of a different group.
Those aren’t extremists, they’re children. I’m not saying that as an insult, I mean it literally.
Actual, practicing anarchists are extremely bureaucratic. Ironically, anarchy in practice produces large, democratic governments that change slowly. Hilariously, a small republican government is best suited for making rapid progress. Note the lower case (d) and (r) - I’m referring to ideology, and not political parties.
Anarchists create institutions that reflect democratic values, and when everyone must be given a chance to have a say, meetings are huge and take for-fucking-ever (speaking from lived commune experience here). Cliques and factions form and work together to shut down proposals they don’t like. Its actually a very conservative ideology - nothing changes quickly.
Very fair points and thanks for the acknowledgement that those who think that abolishing political structures will solve everything are not really ideological extremists but, at best, extremely naïve and in need of personal growth.
There are so many flavors but, without some form of non-democratic structure (or, I don’t know, high-speed telepathy?), rapid change is indeed not readily possible in most anarchic systems, without a unifying external force like a disaster. I don’t think that that’s necessarily a bad thing though. In current social structures, the populace has been forced to go faster and be more productive so that the ultra-wealthy and others high in the socioeconomic hierarchy can enjoy their leisure. A lot of people suffering from mental health problems rooted in stress and anxiety would be greatly benefited by this changing.
I’d say that those “extremists” are more likely people who are young (either biologically or in exposure to anarchic philosophy) and a bit naïve. They may have their heart in the right place from the perspective of those of us who have been about for a while but, likely are lacking in real-world experience with anarchic social circles and challenges that they have (wreckers, narcissists, cliques, etc).
What you’re mentioning is more of the shallow view of anarchism that’s most frequently portrayed as the alternative to the other popular Mad Max view that right-of-center groups like to use to portray “anarchy”. Neither are great at showing the full gamut of anarchic philosophy nor particularly accurate portrayals of extant or historical approaches to non-hierarchical societies.
Big up to the Anarchists. I’d love to be one but the best I could do is some evenings and every other weekend. I’ve become a decadent westerner in the last couple of decades. Sad face.
To me, the most important role of anarchism is as a “North Star”. My ideal society (something like anarcho-syndicalism) is not going to happen in my life. Easier to accept as a full adult. However, that doesn’t mean abandoning the ideals. It means examining them and the pre-conditions necessary to achieve them. Things like cultivating community and encouraging pro-social behaviors that are necessary to change culture for the better over time.
Maybe when xers, millennials, zoomers, and alphas are and to finally take the reins and have some semblance of control over their own lives we will be able to see more change but for now, building and support is needed so that we don’t repeat things like the failed revolution in Iran that led to a theocracy.
Thank you for your inspirational pep talk. I hear what you say. I especially like that you have hope in the coming generations. I’m gonna go away and reflect on my cynicism now.
Please be sure to draw a clear distinction between Marxism and Marxism-Leninism.
Like, MLs are doing literally what Marx saw in 1848 and spent the rest of his life firmly against - you can’t just will a revolution into existence. Even if the world would be better if you could. You can make a good go of it, you can die nobly in the attempt, you can even maybe overthrow the current elite - but what comes next is not going to be socialist, it’s not going to be a worker’s state, and very likely it’s not going to last. No matter how hard you believe in the virtue and intellect of your vanguard party.