Cannabis is currently classified along with drugs like heroin and LSD. The administration is expected to reschedule it into a category that includes Tylenol and steroids.
If you vote for either of these candidates, you’re encouraging the eradication of Palestine. We’re currently funding and arming them in their pursuit of genocide.
Kinda funny to see this sentiment here right below the MLK Jr. quote calling out your exact point of view.
who constantly says “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action;” who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a “more convenient season.”
As I wrote in a thread further down, discouraging people from voting is unethical disengagement. Trump’s base will vote for him even if he’s convicted of all 88 criminal charges, so your argument is falling on the ears of his opponents.
My point above is that the voting options are bad or worse for Palestinians. Worse also comes with harm to Ukrainians, Taiwanese, and Americans.
And Biden’s base will vote for him regardless of the number of dead innocent men, women, and children killed with US funding and weapons, so that should cancel out any support from Trump’s base.
Don’t speak about ethics while demanding that we support slaughter.
There’s no “bad or worse” here. If you vote for Biden or Trump, you’re voting to make things worse for everyone.
Meaning as long as shitty Republicans are around, the Democratic party can count on your vote, right?
Do you not see how that gives them zero incentive to rock the boat or make any of the drastic changes that are sorely needed?
Do you think one day the Republican party is just going to evaporate leaving the Democrats to ‘finally’ start doing all that stuff they’ve been promising us in order to get elected?
You’ve misinterpreted this quote. This is about violent protest and Democrats unwillingness to engage or support them during trying to forcefully take back the rights.
However that’s decidedly not the solution you have proposed. You’ve proposed inaction.
You’ve misinterpreted the quote here as King famously advocated for nonviolence, and at the time Democrats were the party of racists opposing integration and civil rights. In fact, this is so widely known that it now makes me question your motives here.
You may well ask: “Why direct action? Why sit ins, marches and so forth? Isn’t negotiation a better path?” You are quite right in calling for negotiation. Indeed, this is the very purpose of direct action. Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word “tension.” I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, so must we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood. The purpose of our direct action program is to create a situation so crisis packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation. I therefore concur with you in your call for negotiation. Too long has our beloved Southland been bogged down in a tragic effort to live in monologue rather than dialogue.
…We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly, I have yet to engage in a direct action campaign that was “well timed” in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word “Wait!” It rings in the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity. This “Wait” has almost always meant “Never.” We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that “justice too long delayed is justice denied.”
…I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
Actively choosing not to vote for one of two parties oppressing us and harming the nation is not “inaction.” I’d argue that continuing the status quo is the very definition of inaction as not only are you doing nothing to change things, you’re voting to perpetuate it.
Not voting does nothing. It doesn’t show that you disagree, it doesn’t prevent things from happening.
It is the ultimate inaction that agrees with the status quo. As fucked as the two party system we have is, not engaging with it still let’s it perpetuate. You can’t just wash your hands of the system with some dreams and wishes that inaction causes change. No one, and I truly fucking mean no one, is counting the people who don’t vote.
If you want to cause change, then marches, protests, and disruptions are the tools. Not sitting idly by while others make their opinions heard. Until we have a voting reform, this is the tool we have. So work towards changing or replacing that tool with something better. But don’t think not using it will somehow make a difference.
Edit: ah fuck, it’s this right wing conservative account that keeps popping up. I should block you, but it’s better to have opposing viewpoints and be able to respond than it is to allow you to speak without debate.
I sure hope that dude is a troll or a bot I really try to give most people benefit of the doubt but those might take the cake was the most insane takes I’ve ever heard.
Not voting does nothing. It doesn’t show that you disagree, it doesn’t prevent things from happening.
Voting for Biden didn’t change anything in 2020 either as now in 2024, we’re right back where we were in 2016 and 2020. Acting like we should just compromise our morals this time by supporting a guy funding and arming a genocide because ‘the other guy is so much worse’ is just a trap they’ve put you in because there is always going to be ‘the worse other guy’ so long as you help perpetuate this cycle.
Voting for Dems and Republicans is inaction as you’re doing nothing but maintaining their positions of authority and maintaining the status quo. The only way this could be seen as ‘action’ is if your goal is keeping them in power.
No one, and I truly fucking mean no one, is counting the people who don’t vote.
This is hilarious as the other guy replying just brought up the low Democratic turnout in 2016. People are absolutely counting this. The fewer people that support these two parties, the less power and influence they’ll have. This opens up space for alternative parties, the same as it would if we were talking about businesses like Walmart and Target. You think they’re behemoths that can just survive forever without any customers, but that isn’t the case.
If you want to cause change, then marches, protests, and disruptions are the tools.
It’s funny you bring that up because college students are currently doing that on campuses and college administrators along with Democratic and Republican leaders are siccing the police on them and disparaging them in the media.
Not sitting idly by while others make their opinions heard.
Are you not hearing my opinion here?
Until we have a voting reform
When will we have it? It sounds like you’re passively waiting for it to arise by doing nothing other than electing the same people each election.
Edit: ah fuck, it’s this right wing conservative account that keeps popping up.
🙄 typical misinformation. I challenge you to quote or link to even one right-wing viewpoint I’ve given at any point in time.
You’re right upon submitting it to scrutiny of the source that had originally broke down that quote I believe I was incorrect about the part of the violent protests.
I’m very aware that it was about the Democrats lack of support for his movement and their inaction during that time. The failures of the democratic party are very clear.
I’ve never taken issue with what you’re saying. You can repeat it as much as you want, not even telling you to delay action I wish you would take action right now. What you are encouraging though is absolutely inaction in every sense of the word.
To put your logic to the test please explain to me how the 20-year low of voter turnout for the Democrats in 2016 was able to meaningfully affect policy.
As I said before, both of these parties represent the status quo so there’s no motivation for them to create any meaningful policy when they know they’re still going to retain roughly 50% of the government at any given time.
Democrats have held a super majority multiple times over the years and the best we got from that was a Republican crafted healthcare plan that cemented the role of private insurers into law and ensured that there’d be zero political will to meddle with healthcare again for a very long time. That’s the best we get from them even after being good little minions and ensuring they could control the whole show with our votes.
Well, no, that’s the one thing you can’t really argue. Biden is indistinguishable from Trump on Israel.
It’s difficult for neoliberal types to wrap their head around, but there is no meaningful difference because neither will stop Netanyahu and the IDF from doing what they’re doing. Biden has not been a moderating force here, he’s been a validating force. Biden sees Palestinians as subhumans the same way Trump does.
I disagree. Trump said the problem with Israel’s actions in Gaza is that they keep recording it, and that they should just finish the job. Netanyahu is so fond of Trump, he inaugurated a town after him in Golan Heights.
So Trump would suggest (again?) that they not record their atrocities…that’s the difference.
He doesn’t need to be president to suggest that.
Him giving them propaganda advice is immaterial to the fact that neither Biden nor Trump are or would do anything to hinder the actual genocide.
Netanyahu doesn’t have to like Biden, and in fact he routinely pisses right in Biden’s face and then goes and keeps doing what he’s doing. But yeah, Biden hasn’t publically suggested they should stop recording their atrocities. Oh man, what a fucking hero he is. It’s night and day!
Biden should be acting on the genocide but he isn’t and neither will Trump. The only two people capable of being in office in the next 4 years.
So pressure Congress, protest and do everything you can but in the meantime those two are nothing alike on most other issues and being a single issue voter has never made the system better.
You vote uncommitted/blank for the presidency if you want to communicate your unwillingness to tolerate democratic complicity in genocide to the Democrats.
The Uncommitted primary votes mean nothing if people aren’t credibly willing to follow through when Biden gives anti-genocide protestors the finger.
So you’re suggesting Trump then? I’m not sure if you’re aware of the state of the US election system, but there are two candidates that have a chance of being elected. One of them has a voter base that will vote regardless of criminal convictions for attempting to overturn an election, inciting an insurrection, and selling national secrets.
Unfortunately, if you view a vote as being complicit you’re complicit no matter what.
Because with the two party bias there are only two people capable of being in that office and not voting for either of them is still a vote in and of itself.
To be clear I don’t care who you vote for but you need to accept the reality that you are choosing one of the two whether you mean to or not.
That’s why Congress is the only realistic way we can pressure our political system to stop what’s currently going on. The government doesn’t stop at the president and plenty of our Congress supports it too which is what allows it to be the way it is.
there are only two people capable of being in that office
No, anyone eligible is capable of holding that office. The reason why it’s typically only a member of one of two parties is because of people like you to continue to give them your vote and pressure others to do the same.
I wish you all the luck in the world but I can tell you now that it is not me acknowledging the fact that our system has an inherent two party bias that assured the last 50 years of one of the two parties.
Believe it or not US presidents have had blood on their hands for years. Even seemingly peaceful actions like the withdrawl from Afghanistan get blood everywhere. If elections could stop the bloodshed they would have.
The reality is voting does affect some things but its going to take far more than a vote to stop the killing.
Ok, you don’t believe in democratic rule and things like our country being complicit in bloodshed and genocide are a foregone conclusion, got it. Blocked.
“bloodshed and genocide are a foregone conclusion”
-things nobody said
What part of “Its going to be harder than just voting” do you not understand?
Stopping violence means putting your life and wellbeing on the line. No amount of online virtue signaling will stop a genocide.
Are you just simply incapable of imagining that but much much worse? Like seriously. I get it dude, what the Israeli government is doing is fucking monstrous. And anyone paying attention to anything knows that not re-electcing Biden will make the nightmare several orders of magnitudes more awful.
That’s my whole point. Yeah it’s bad right now, but it can and will get worse if Trump is elected. This is a fact.
There is no restraint placed on Israel, they are doing exactly what they would do under a Trump admin because you can’t do less than nothing.
It’s like saying “I know we left the door unlocked and open and that’s how the burglers got in, but can you imagine how much worse it would’ve been if we had removed the door from the hinges?”
I can only assume you haven’t actually been paying attention to what’s happening in Gaza. It is a genocide. Israel is doing exactly what they want with no restriction.
Trump literally moved our embassy to Jerusalem. You’re a fucking fool if you think Trump and the psychotic dispensationalists that make up his base wouldn’t make that situation much much worse, then I honestly do not know what to tell you. These people literally want more of this shit because they think it means the rapture is coming. And yes, that is a significant portion of his financial base. That isn’t fringe Republican stuff anymore.
Shit is really fucking bad over there, but if you don’t think it can get worse (and do so with direct aid and support of the US government), then you must understand very little about human behavior.
If you vote for Trump over Israel, then you’re encouraging the eradication of the Palestinians.
That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t protest, but the options for Israel at the polls are support vs. encouragement.
Edit: It’s everything else that really differs, and should be taken more seriously.
If you vote for either of these candidates, you’re encouraging the eradication of Palestine. We’re currently funding and arming them in their pursuit of genocide.
Kinda funny to see this sentiment here right below the MLK Jr. quote calling out your exact point of view.
As I wrote in a thread further down, discouraging people from voting is unethical disengagement. Trump’s base will vote for him even if he’s convicted of all 88 criminal charges, so your argument is falling on the ears of his opponents.
My point above is that the voting options are bad or worse for Palestinians. Worse also comes with harm to Ukrainians, Taiwanese, and Americans.
And Biden’s base will vote for him regardless of the number of dead innocent men, women, and children killed with US funding and weapons, so that should cancel out any support from Trump’s base.
Don’t speak about ethics while demanding that we support slaughter.
There’s no “bad or worse” here. If you vote for Biden or Trump, you’re voting to make things worse for everyone.
I’m not part of Biden’s base, Trump made my choice for me by becoming his opponent.
Meaning as long as shitty Republicans are around, the Democratic party can count on your vote, right?
Do you not see how that gives them zero incentive to rock the boat or make any of the drastic changes that are sorely needed?
Do you think one day the Republican party is just going to evaporate leaving the Democrats to ‘finally’ start doing all that stuff they’ve been promising us in order to get elected?
I absolutely see the problem. That doesn’t mean I’m stupid or arrogant enough to sit out and make things worse.
You’ve misinterpreted this quote. This is about violent protest and Democrats unwillingness to engage or support them during trying to forcefully take back the rights.
However that’s decidedly not the solution you have proposed. You’ve proposed inaction.
You’ve misinterpreted the quote here as King famously advocated for nonviolence, and at the time Democrats were the party of racists opposing integration and civil rights. In fact, this is so widely known that it now makes me question your motives here.
Actively choosing not to vote for one of two parties oppressing us and harming the nation is not “inaction.” I’d argue that continuing the status quo is the very definition of inaction as not only are you doing nothing to change things, you’re voting to perpetuate it.
Not voting does nothing. It doesn’t show that you disagree, it doesn’t prevent things from happening.
It is the ultimate inaction that agrees with the status quo. As fucked as the two party system we have is, not engaging with it still let’s it perpetuate. You can’t just wash your hands of the system with some dreams and wishes that inaction causes change. No one, and I truly fucking mean no one, is counting the people who don’t vote.
If you want to cause change, then marches, protests, and disruptions are the tools. Not sitting idly by while others make their opinions heard. Until we have a voting reform, this is the tool we have. So work towards changing or replacing that tool with something better. But don’t think not using it will somehow make a difference.
Edit: ah fuck, it’s this right wing conservative account that keeps popping up. I should block you, but it’s better to have opposing viewpoints and be able to respond than it is to allow you to speak without debate.
I sure hope that dude is a troll or a bot I really try to give most people benefit of the doubt but those might take the cake was the most insane takes I’ve ever heard.
Voting for Biden didn’t change anything in 2020 either as now in 2024, we’re right back where we were in 2016 and 2020. Acting like we should just compromise our morals this time by supporting a guy funding and arming a genocide because ‘the other guy is so much worse’ is just a trap they’ve put you in because there is always going to be ‘the worse other guy’ so long as you help perpetuate this cycle.
Voting for Dems and Republicans is inaction as you’re doing nothing but maintaining their positions of authority and maintaining the status quo. The only way this could be seen as ‘action’ is if your goal is keeping them in power.
This is hilarious as the other guy replying just brought up the low Democratic turnout in 2016. People are absolutely counting this. The fewer people that support these two parties, the less power and influence they’ll have. This opens up space for alternative parties, the same as it would if we were talking about businesses like Walmart and Target. You think they’re behemoths that can just survive forever without any customers, but that isn’t the case.
It’s funny you bring that up because college students are currently doing that on campuses and college administrators along with Democratic and Republican leaders are siccing the police on them and disparaging them in the media.
Are you not hearing my opinion here?
When will we have it? It sounds like you’re passively waiting for it to arise by doing nothing other than electing the same people each election.
🙄 typical misinformation. I challenge you to quote or link to even one right-wing viewpoint I’ve given at any point in time.
You’re right upon submitting it to scrutiny of the source that had originally broke down that quote I believe I was incorrect about the part of the violent protests.
I’m very aware that it was about the Democrats lack of support for his movement and their inaction during that time. The failures of the democratic party are very clear.
I’ve never taken issue with what you’re saying. You can repeat it as much as you want, not even telling you to delay action I wish you would take action right now. What you are encouraging though is absolutely inaction in every sense of the word.
To put your logic to the test please explain to me how the 20-year low of voter turnout for the Democrats in 2016 was able to meaningfully affect policy.
As I said before, both of these parties represent the status quo so there’s no motivation for them to create any meaningful policy when they know they’re still going to retain roughly 50% of the government at any given time.
Democrats have held a super majority multiple times over the years and the best we got from that was a Republican crafted healthcare plan that cemented the role of private insurers into law and ensured that there’d be zero political will to meddle with healthcare again for a very long time. That’s the best we get from them even after being good little minions and ensuring they could control the whole show with our votes.
None of that addresses my critism of your point of view.
This is literally advocating for inaction. Not even local participation or groups they can support in the meantime to achieve your goals.
Well I think I’ve got as much out of this as I possibly can. At this junction I will agree to disagree.
Well, no, that’s the one thing you can’t really argue. Biden is indistinguishable from Trump on Israel.
It’s difficult for neoliberal types to wrap their head around, but there is no meaningful difference because neither will stop Netanyahu and the IDF from doing what they’re doing. Biden has not been a moderating force here, he’s been a validating force. Biden sees Palestinians as subhumans the same way Trump does.
I disagree. Trump said the problem with Israel’s actions in Gaza is that they keep recording it, and that they should just finish the job. Netanyahu is so fond of Trump, he inaugurated a town after him in Golan Heights.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/04/politics/trump-israel-comments/index.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/netanyahu-inaugurates-trump-heights-israels-newest-town-on-the-golan-heights/2019/06/16/2207cd24-9041-11e9-956a-88c291ab5c38_story.html
So Trump would suggest (again?) that they not record their atrocities…that’s the difference. He doesn’t need to be president to suggest that.
Him giving them propaganda advice is immaterial to the fact that neither Biden nor Trump are or would do anything to hinder the actual genocide.
Netanyahu doesn’t have to like Biden, and in fact he routinely pisses right in Biden’s face and then goes and keeps doing what he’s doing. But yeah, Biden hasn’t publically suggested they should stop recording their atrocities. Oh man, what a fucking hero he is. It’s night and day!
Biden should be acting on the genocide but he isn’t and neither will Trump. The only two people capable of being in office in the next 4 years.
So pressure Congress, protest and do everything you can but in the meantime those two are nothing alike on most other issues and being a single issue voter has never made the system better.
Ah yeah, I forgot, being against democratic complicity in genocide is being a “single issue voter”. I really need to get my priorities straight!
“Protest and do everything you can, just as along as you’re not willing to back it up with action.”
Let me ask this- Who do you suggest people vote for in order to not be supporting Israel?
You vote uncommitted/blank for the presidency if you want to communicate your unwillingness to tolerate democratic complicity in genocide to the Democrats.
The Uncommitted primary votes mean nothing if people aren’t credibly willing to follow through when Biden gives anti-genocide protestors the finger.
So you’re suggesting Trump then? I’m not sure if you’re aware of the state of the US election system, but there are two candidates that have a chance of being elected. One of them has a voter base that will vote regardless of criminal convictions for attempting to overturn an election, inciting an insurrection, and selling national secrets.
You vote that way in the primary, not the general. All you’re doing is ensuring the worst possible outcome, rather than the one you claim you want.
Unfortunately, if you view a vote as being complicit you’re complicit no matter what.
Because with the two party bias there are only two people capable of being in that office and not voting for either of them is still a vote in and of itself.
To be clear I don’t care who you vote for but you need to accept the reality that you are choosing one of the two whether you mean to or not.
That’s why Congress is the only realistic way we can pressure our political system to stop what’s currently going on. The government doesn’t stop at the president and plenty of our Congress supports it too which is what allows it to be the way it is.
No. It’s not. It’s explicitly a non-vote.
Then you’ve failed to grasp the implicit bias that is baked into our political system.
I’m not saying it’s right we should absolutely be trying to change that. However it’s the truth.
Until we get something like ranked choice voting we are stuck voting for the best of two or giving power to the worse.
No, anyone eligible is capable of holding that office. The reason why it’s typically only a member of one of two parties is because of people like you to continue to give them your vote and pressure others to do the same.
I wish you all the luck in the world but I can tell you now that it is not me acknowledging the fact that our system has an inherent two party bias that assured the last 50 years of one of the two parties.
Believe it or not US presidents have had blood on their hands for years. Even seemingly peaceful actions like the withdrawl from Afghanistan get blood everywhere. If elections could stop the bloodshed they would have.
The reality is voting does affect some things but its going to take far more than a vote to stop the killing.
Ok, you don’t believe in democratic rule and things like our country being complicit in bloodshed and genocide are a foregone conclusion, got it. Blocked.
“bloodshed and genocide are a foregone conclusion” -things nobody said
What part of “Its going to be harder than just voting” do you not understand? Stopping violence means putting your life and wellbeing on the line. No amount of online virtue signaling will stop a genocide.
Nobody here is stupid enough to fall for this bullshit… We all know how Trump feels about Israel, strongman leaders, and ethnostsates.
Trump takes office Jan. 20, and by the end of month, Netanyahu has a blank check to carry out his genocide.
But maybe that’s what you want…
Netanyahu already has a blank check. They’re sniping children in the streets you dolt.
Are you just simply incapable of imagining that but much much worse? Like seriously. I get it dude, what the Israeli government is doing is fucking monstrous. And anyone paying attention to anything knows that not re-electcing Biden will make the nightmare several orders of magnitudes more awful.
That’s my whole point. Yeah it’s bad right now, but it can and will get worse if Trump is elected. This is a fact.
There is no restraint placed on Israel, they are doing exactly what they would do under a Trump admin because you can’t do less than nothing.
It’s like saying “I know we left the door unlocked and open and that’s how the burglers got in, but can you imagine how much worse it would’ve been if we had removed the door from the hinges?”
I can only assume you haven’t actually been paying attention to what’s happening in Gaza. It is a genocide. Israel is doing exactly what they want with no restriction.
Trump literally moved our embassy to Jerusalem. You’re a fucking fool if you think Trump and the psychotic dispensationalists that make up his base wouldn’t make that situation much much worse, then I honestly do not know what to tell you. These people literally want more of this shit because they think it means the rapture is coming. And yes, that is a significant portion of his financial base. That isn’t fringe Republican stuff anymore.
Shit is really fucking bad over there, but if you don’t think it can get worse (and do so with direct aid and support of the US government), then you must understand very little about human behavior.
You are either a Russian troll or you have been heavily indoctrinated.
You are either a Russian troll or you’ve been heavily indoctrinated.