On April 15th, people from over 30 cities around the world will launch a global economic blockade answering the call from Gaza to fight for a liberated Palestine. 75 years and 182 days into this U...
your discourse is patronizing and disrespectful to me and my ability to understand what’s going on. you are hijacking a discussion about how to stop a colonialist genocide to wring your hands about oppressed people possibly winning and treating their occupiers like they’ve been treated.
I don’t believe you’re an anarchist because you are derailing a solidarity action and accusing anarchists of being antisemitic.
If you want to talk politics, you’re gonna have to accept the fact that people will have different opions. This isn’t hexbear where everyone with a different view is instabanned. I get that emotions are running high over the situation in Gaza, but try to respond in good faith instead of leaping to the most uncharitable interpretation possible.
You are incorrect about hexbear. I am an anarchist and post there almost exclusively, I have seen more vigorous debate there than any other left space. Hexbear actually allows proper arguments and doesn’t even have downvotes.
That’s unfortunate to hear, I don’t know the context of your experience so I can’t make any assumption, but it is just funny to me how much I see comments like that about hexbear, when I have found it to be very welcoming to diverse views (aside from pro-liberalism or fascism), and plenty of other anarchists on there agree. I wouldn’t have been drawn towards it if it weren’t for so many people saying they were ‘MAGA tankies’ etc.
if these same opinions were being voiced in c/politics or c/news, my pushback would be decidedly different. this is an anarchist community, and frankly i don’t believe the other user’s operating in good faith. just saying “i’m an anarchist” is a pretty thin shield for accusing principled organizers of antisemitism and derailing discussion about a global coordinated resistance movement.
i think it’s super cool that an admin is weighing in (since i think that means my reports are being read), but maybe we could get an anarchist to actually do some of the moderation here.
We read every report, but only take mod actions where it is warranted. Reading through what @flora_explorer@beehaw.org has posted here, I don’t see anything that would violate any instance rules. You are welcome to block them if you don’t want to engage with their arguments.
my concern isn’t instance-wide rules. as i said, in another community, my tact would have been totally different. my concern is whether this is actually an anarchist community or no.
What does being an anarchist community mean to you? To my mind, if someone self identifies as an anarchist then they should be welcome here. If they are just here for trolling then that’s another issue, but I don’t think it applies in this case.
It seems to me that you are the only person badjacketing in this post. If you think it’s a good policy to ban fellow anarchists for having a nuanced view on the Gaza situation, then you might want to check out hexbear - intolerant authoritarianism is their whole vibe.
Hm, OK I get that you are upset. And I really don’t want to derail anything here. My point is rather that we should try to be critical of ourselves as well. It is obviously easier to organize if there is one clear enemy, like Putin or Erdogan. The Ukrainian or Kurdish struggles have gained a lot of solidarity because these conflicts are easier to divide into good vs bad. In the Israel/Palestine conflict however I think we need to be careful. I see how deeply problematic the Israeli government is behaving and we need to organize and stand firm against it. But it is also true that antisemitism has a very long and complex history where the Israeli state plays an important role. This does obviously not excuse any violence or abuse by the Israeli state. And I don’t get why the US or the European nations fail to put sanctions on Israel. But at the same time, the Jewish people do need a safe place to exist and antisemitism is not a hoax made up by the Israeli government. While Jewish people from abroad may even speak against the existence of the Israeli state, antisemitic attacks in e.g. the US and Europe have increased. Only this week someone through a Molotov cocktail on a synagogue where I live (in Germany). Many synagogues here need police protection. The generation of my greatgrand- and grandparents have systematically killed Jews. Many states around Israel would have destroyed Israel long ago if they’d had the means to it. Again, I know this does not excuse any violence by the Jewish state. They should be held responsible for the horrible atrocities they are currently performing. But imo it just is not as easy to say that the whole state of Israel with all the people living in it is the enemy here. Netanyahu and his extremist Likud party for sure. But not Israel itself. I hope you can understand where I’m coming from and what my intentions are.
ETA: and yes, I really identify as an anarchist. To me this means that we should strive to live without hierarchies and without rulers. In my utopia there would be no nations, no borders, no capitalism, no money, no jobs etc. We would need to find ways to organize in better ways that benefit everyone and lets everyone participate to their own needs. But unfortunately it will be a really long struggle to get to this.
your discourse is patronizing and disrespectful to me and my ability to understand what’s going on. you are hijacking a discussion about how to stop a colonialist genocide to wring your hands about oppressed people possibly winning and treating their occupiers like they’ve been treated.
I don’t believe you’re an anarchist because you are derailing a solidarity action and accusing anarchists of being antisemitic.
If you want to talk politics, you’re gonna have to accept the fact that people will have different opions. This isn’t hexbear where everyone with a different view is instabanned. I get that emotions are running high over the situation in Gaza, but try to respond in good faith instead of leaping to the most uncharitable interpretation possible.
You are incorrect about hexbear. I am an anarchist and post there almost exclusively, I have seen more vigorous debate there than any other left space. Hexbear actually allows proper arguments and doesn’t even have downvotes.
That has not been my experience, but I’m glad it works for you.
That’s unfortunate to hear, I don’t know the context of your experience so I can’t make any assumption, but it is just funny to me how much I see comments like that about hexbear, when I have found it to be very welcoming to diverse views (aside from pro-liberalism or fascism), and plenty of other anarchists on there agree. I wouldn’t have been drawn towards it if it weren’t for so many people saying they were ‘MAGA tankies’ etc.
if these same opinions were being voiced in c/politics or c/news, my pushback would be decidedly different. this is an anarchist community, and frankly i don’t believe the other user’s operating in good faith. just saying “i’m an anarchist” is a pretty thin shield for accusing principled organizers of antisemitism and derailing discussion about a global coordinated resistance movement.
i think it’s super cool that an admin is weighing in (since i think that means my reports are being read), but maybe we could get an anarchist to actually do some of the moderation here.
We read every report, but only take mod actions where it is warranted. Reading through what @flora_explorer@beehaw.org has posted here, I don’t see anything that would violate any instance rules. You are welcome to block them if you don’t want to engage with their arguments.
my concern isn’t instance-wide rules. as i said, in another community, my tact would have been totally different. my concern is whether this is actually an anarchist community or no.
What does being an anarchist community mean to you? To my mind, if someone self identifies as an anarchist then they should be welcome here. If they are just here for trolling then that’s another issue, but I don’t think it applies in this case.
an anarchist community doesn’t allow badjacketing and punching left, something this user is doing.
if it were up to me, we would have the same policies as reddit’s anarchism subreddit.
and they would not tolerate this user’s comments.
It seems to me that you are the only person badjacketing in this post. If you think it’s a good policy to ban fellow anarchists for having a nuanced view on the Gaza situation, then you might want to check out hexbear - intolerant authoritarianism is their whole vibe.
i was called antisemitic
that’s not what it’s about. it’s about bad faith accusations of antisemitism against principled organizers.
Hm, OK I get that you are upset. And I really don’t want to derail anything here. My point is rather that we should try to be critical of ourselves as well. It is obviously easier to organize if there is one clear enemy, like Putin or Erdogan. The Ukrainian or Kurdish struggles have gained a lot of solidarity because these conflicts are easier to divide into good vs bad. In the Israel/Palestine conflict however I think we need to be careful. I see how deeply problematic the Israeli government is behaving and we need to organize and stand firm against it. But it is also true that antisemitism has a very long and complex history where the Israeli state plays an important role. This does obviously not excuse any violence or abuse by the Israeli state. And I don’t get why the US or the European nations fail to put sanctions on Israel. But at the same time, the Jewish people do need a safe place to exist and antisemitism is not a hoax made up by the Israeli government. While Jewish people from abroad may even speak against the existence of the Israeli state, antisemitic attacks in e.g. the US and Europe have increased. Only this week someone through a Molotov cocktail on a synagogue where I live (in Germany). Many synagogues here need police protection. The generation of my greatgrand- and grandparents have systematically killed Jews. Many states around Israel would have destroyed Israel long ago if they’d had the means to it. Again, I know this does not excuse any violence by the Jewish state. They should be held responsible for the horrible atrocities they are currently performing. But imo it just is not as easy to say that the whole state of Israel with all the people living in it is the enemy here. Netanyahu and his extremist Likud party for sure. But not Israel itself. I hope you can understand where I’m coming from and what my intentions are.
ETA: and yes, I really identify as an anarchist. To me this means that we should strive to live without hierarchies and without rulers. In my utopia there would be no nations, no borders, no capitalism, no money, no jobs etc. We would need to find ways to organize in better ways that benefit everyone and lets everyone participate to their own needs. But unfortunately it will be a really long struggle to get to this.
the whole state of israel and its supporters are the enemy.
nazis in ukraine aren’t my comrades either.