Logline
A distress call from Lt. Noonien-Singh compels Spock to disobey orders and take the USS Enterprise and its crew into disputed space, risking renewed hostilities with the Klingons in a bid to aid their shipmate.
Written by Henry Alonso Myers & Akiva Goldsman
Directed by Chris Fisher
A note about episode discussions on startrek.website
Right now, the plan is to post the /c/startrek discussion when the episode drops on Thursdays. Once the global community has had some time to watch and digest what they’ve seen, the /c/daystrominstitute discussion will go live on Sundays for a more in-depth analysis. This is subject to change as we evaluate what works best for the community as a whole.
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Constructive Criticism - criticism is welcome, but please put some effort into explaining why you did or didn’t like something. Just saying something was “good” or “bad” isn’t exactly laying a foundation for discussion.
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I just love this show, the feeling I get when the intro rolls is the same as when I was I was 15 watching the TNG intro on TV. The characters all feel special and unique even if I’ve seen every episode of every series.
Regarding Nurse Chapel almost dying - this is one of the TV/movie tropes that I think is such a cheap and terrible device and I am tired of it. Discovery was full of these scenes where they make you believe a main character really almost died, only to survive after all, and having their crew mates weep for them (I am looking at you Burnham). There are much better ways to create good drama.
@triktrek Oh, boy - Can we talk about “Picard”?! Data dies in Nemesis, a great and noble sacrifice. Which is then diminished, because we brought him back for Picard! The staff didn’t think the Nemesis sacrifice was a worthy sendoff, or perhaps *they* wanted to do the sending off. So we’ll kill him again, this time with feeling! But, season three, the old gang is all getting together again. Maybe we can resurrect him one more time? (I’m aware of the supposed differences, but really. It was Data.)
And they killed off Picard! Another great and noble sacrifice! But no, not really, let’s bring him back as an android, you’ll never notice the difference! 🙄
It’s really at the point where a character’s death is robbed of all drama, because there’s always a way to resurrect them. It was a dream, they were in the Mirror universe, the mycelium network made a copy, etc.
I agree. That’s why it would have actually been shocking if there were to really kill Chapel. I only watched Games of Thrones lately (yeah I know), and boy was I shocked at the various kills of main characters.
It makes even less sense on a prequel show where you know the characters are for sure around longer.
I’d normally agree with you but I don’t think they were trying to fool the audience in this case. It was more about shocking Spock’s emotional reaction.
Still, there’s better ways of showing that than the almost dying trope.
spoiler
Nurse Chapel is in TOS - so there wasn’t really any risk that she was going to die here.
Yeah, putting aside that not everyone has seen TOS who is watching this show, I didn’t interpret this as some kind of attempt to make the audience think Chapel was going to die. The purpose of this happening was all about what it shows about Spock and the scenes and character development that come from that.
And I think in this case it was quite effective and I wouldn’t change it to something else. Spock was holding off the order and he was really upset because he didn’t want to give the order that kills Chapel and M’Benga (though he has more attachment to Chapel). The threat to their lives is a vital part of this story they’re telling about Spock and it wouldn’t have the same effect if they changed the situation to something else. Seeing him have to give the order, then have them be possibly alive, but then having Chapel seem to be dead and Spock himself bring her back was very powerful for me and I don’t think that could be replaced with something else or a different kind of situation and have the same impact on either Spock or the audience.
Both the scene in the transporter room and in sick bay later were excellent excellent scenes for Spock and highlights of the episode for me. Ethan Peck’s acting was really strong in those scenes too — I’m so glad to have him playing Spock.
undefined> I’d normally agree with you but I don’t think they were trying to fool the audience in this case. It was more about showing Spock’s emotional reaction.
Yep that was my take as well.
In the last scene it did seem odd that m’benga was absolutly fine yet chapel was still in effectively ICU
As someone who actually enjoyed Discovery, that’s one of the things I couldn’t stand about it. And it really disappoints me that they used it here. You can’t have the stakes of every damn episode be that high, so it really bothers me that we get it in the first episode of the season. I really hope it’s not a sign of things to come.
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I concede that point but I still hate that plot device.
Don’t watch SW Episode IX then lol, I think they had like five or six fakeout deaths? jfc
Yeah, that was pretty dumb too.
Pelia is like “I have been alive for hundreds of years and I’m going to make that everyone else’s problem.”
- I am 100% here for the chaotic energy that Carol Kane is going to bring to this show.
- The Klingon captain had exactly the right amount of swagger and sassiness that a TOS-era Klingon captain is supposed to have. I’m glad that they’re moving on from some of the Discovery Klingon characterization while also resisting the urge to jump right to them behaving like TNG Klingons.
Hemmer was my favorite character from season one, and is very difficult to replace in my heart. But Carol Kane is one of those actors you just can’t help but love to see on screen (in any capacity). It’s going to be very hard to be upset knowing she’ll be around.
I do wish we were able to keep Hemmer around longer.
Completely agree with both points. The Klingons were altogether great - makeup and hair were perfect, and the captain at the end was the icing on the cake
Ortegas inverted her controller settings as everyone should 🎮
Honestly Inverted Stick for Flight controls makes so much more sense on controller because that’s what you would do with an actual flight stick
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I’m so happy to have SNW back. Whoever decided to put Carol Kane in the show needs to get a raise; she is absolutely spectacular. I’m very curious to see where her character goes.
I enjoy the idea of Spock being more emotional it really puts it into perspective that Vulcans have emotions they just try to keep them under lock and key and Spock being half human is having a harder time with that compared to most Vulcans is… relatable.
I did not like weird green super power drug that Chapel and M’Benga took to fight the the Klingons. It came from no where, the shot on the eyes right out of Dread made me think it was literally Slo-Mo from that movie. It really wasn’t necessary, they could have just grabbed phasers somewhere instead.
I’m not realy sure how I feel about them using the term false flag in Star Trek. The plot makes sense but still it’s a very charged term today.
That green drug was basically Underdog’s super energy pill. An unnecessary ‘pocket frannistan’ solution to the problem of escaping the Klingons.
Yes, what was up with the green stuff?? I thought maybe I missed something from last season and kept watching thinking I’d remember but… Nope. I was half expecting them to get time-accelerated like in TOST Wink of an Eye episode, so they could just zip past all the Klingons.
I enjoyed her in Gotham & Kimmy Schmidt.
Yeah, the drug scene didn’t feel great to me, they literally could have just found phasers or found a cleverer way around it.
I was wondering if you could explain the issue with the term ‘false flag?’ As far as I was aware, it’s when party A carries out an action and tries to frame party B for it - which was exactly what was happening here.
I was trying to figure out how to explain it succinctly and found this link which does a way better job than I could have: https://www.adl.org/glossary/false-flag
Ah, I understand your comment better. I am still not sure it’s enough to turn it (generally) into a no-go term. Plenty of news outlets have been commenting on Russian false flags against Ukraine and that’s used more in the context of how it’s used in this episode.
Fair.
Also, doesn’t the term date back to the Age of Sail? And TOS was explicitly supposed to be Horatio Hornblower in Space. It makes sense thematically to use nautical terms.
I loved that they gave Dr. M’Benga some screentime front and center and showed that he can throw down if necessary, even if it was with the help of some super serum stuff. And while I even loved his (and Nurse Chapel’s ) elaborate fight scene and enjoyed the way they filmed it, I’m also not sure if it quite fits with Star Trek. Just not sure yet with the excessive slow motion. The camera angles however were some great artistic choice. But overall one great start to season 2.
My gut feeling is that with a couple changes this episode would have hung together better-
- Have them take a shuttle instead of the Enterprise. This lowers the stakes for our command crew and simply makes more sense than half the crew (that wasn’t on leave) agreeing to steal a ship. It also means they need to figure out a different way to deal with the fake Federation ship at the end of the episode is some way other than ‘shoot it with bigger guns’
- Have Chapel and M’Benga do something within their character strengths to escape instead of magic drug that lets them hand-to-hand fight their way through a dozen or more Klingons.
That said, there were a lot of things I DID like about the episode, including the Klingon Captain at the end and the new Chief Engineer.
I liked it, but it didn’t have enough Pike.
Really delighted with this episode.
No complaints. Can’t really buy into the nitpicks on this one. It seemed completely Trek, and gave many of the ensemble their moments to shine. Production design gorgeous, virtual staging more seamless, costumes excellent, vfx great.
I like how M’Benga has hoarded the green vial as part of his lingering trauma. Better, we finally see a physician giving himself the juice instead of Kirk or some other command officer. In fact, one has to wonder if McCoy carried a stash provided by M’Benga.
Spock’s unresolved feelings for Chapel are well crafted and mirror the lingering pain we see her left with in TOS. It makes those scenes with Chapel in TOS comprehensible instead of cringe-inducing.
For the love of Pete can we stop with all of the lame catch phrases and dumb jokes? Spock should have just uttered something simple suiting the Vulcan personality/character, like “proceed”. But no, we have to get a lame line one step above a fart joke…
I really don’t get why people are so upset about the warp catchphrase thing. I think its great that there’s a tradition through Trek lore. It reinforces to me that these are all people. People working hard to advance themselves to the point they daydream of sitting in the Captain’s chair. Every single Trek nerd can empathize with that daydream.
@arod48 @startrek For me, it breaks the suspension of disbelief. The whole “catchphrase” conversation was, for sure, a writer’s room thing that leaked into the scripts. It might be an interesting thing to reflect on for the writers and the fans, but it rings untrue when the characters spend so much time on it.
It reminds me of all those “Let’s put on a show!” situations in various movies and TV shows. The characters in those programs probably wouldn’t be inclined, but for the the entertainment community that produced the show, it’s second nature, and often allows them to entertain the audience by letting the actors show off their other talents (viz Picard lustily quoting Shakespearean sonnets to impress some Ferengi). Sure, it’s entertaining, but if you want to suspend disbelief and get into a story about highly trained people helming a starship, bristling with weapons and technology, it’s jarring.
IMHO, of course 😉
I find those episodes and movies in general annoying when it happens. Like it’s so transparent this entire thing is just a giant love letter to hollywood, filled with inside jokes that only people in the entertainment industry would really get. I guess I find it so annoying because it shows how out of touch many of these people are, which sheds a little light on why/how all of our favorite franchises are being systematically destroyed.
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I think it would have been better as a comic moment towards the end of the episode, as they leave to come home… In the tense moment of stealing the ship and answering distress call it felt very forced.
Spock should have just uttered something simple suiting the Vulcan personality/character
I would argue that that’s exactly what he did. That line was very representative of where his character is in this episode - stressed-out and awkward.
Enjoyed pretty much everything in this episode except the magic super steroids. The sequence went on for so long… I assumed that I had forgotten something from last series because there’s no way they would have had this to hand the whole time and never thought to use it during any one of the many life and death emergencies?
That aside. Loved the rest of the episode and looking forward to where things go from here (plus really really happy to have weekly Trek again!)
there’s no way they would have had this to hand the whole time and never thought to use it during any one of the many life and death emergencies?
Ah, yes, the star trek classic!
I do agree, though. It was too long and too effective. A quick burst to make their way past the medical guards and into a turbolift would have been more believable and better paced.
I want to see some serious side effects from that play out to explain why people don’t use it more often.
Reminds me of a character in The Expanse who gets illegal hormone gland implants that can be activated for a burst of heightened awareness. The drawback is twofold. When the activation wears off the user experiences debilitating nausea for several minutes. Over the long term the illegal part comes into play because you know those things aren’t rated for health and safety. This character requires regular blood transfusions/dialysis due to toxin buildup from shoddy workmanship.
Anyway, that’s an entire tangent. I’m excited to see if there are interesting complications from a doctor who’s strapped with combat drugs of questionable ethics.
I was thinking of the Expanse too during this episode. I really would love for Star Trek to take more notes from that series, but maybe “realistic” science is too much to ask from a show with warp drives and transporters and phasers.
I liked how they explained the red rings around the planet. Water ice with significant iron contaminants would be reddish indeed, though more of a light pink instead of a deep blood red.
I suspect there would have been a lot more dust and rough surfaces just from the rugged nature of space itself, but those transparent crystals sure looked pretty.
M’Benga had it. It sounds like he’s maybe not supposed to have it.
I like to call it space meth, or smeth for short.
Thoughts and observations written as I watch- I’ll be putting this on both Reddit and Lemmy, since infinity diversity/infinity combinations:
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Wheeee, NCC-1701 in the Star Trek tag!
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Previously: Last season happened.
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Little ships flying!
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Wonder who the lawyer that Una and Pike have tried to reach is.
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Oh, hey, the Vulcan musical instrument whose name I can’t remember!
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“Fascinating.” “Isn’t that usually his line?”
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The fellowship on archeological medicine? Is that a reference to Dr. Korby?
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“We must steal the Enterprise.” Buddy, if I had a nickel every time someone had to steal the Enterprise, I’d have several nickels.
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Lt. Mitchell gunning for series regular next year with how much screen time she’s had early on this episode.
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Okay, having Carol Kane is already paying dividends.
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And, yeah, Carol Kane doesn’t need alien makeup to be an alien. She’s already an alien.
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I’m still not sure if the emphasis one the warp catch phrase is amazing or annoying, but this scene was funny.
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KLINGON UPDATE: RIDGES!
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So clearly La’An’s augmented ancestors were genetically engineered to drink a lot. Which, y’know what? Fair.
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Ah, the borderlands, where utopian rules go away and everyone becomes a Ferengi.
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Congratulations to Uhura on graduating from the Academy.
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Ah, the old “I have technology that I’m totally not making up that will blow you up” bluff!
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New transporter chief?
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Okay, so the angry borderlands people are trying to do some sort of false flag thing.
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Redundant Klingon organs, the old standby.
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Roided-up doctors can tell you what bones they broke as they break them.
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These are obviously Discovery sets.
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This action scene, while well-done, is way too long.
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A D7!
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“We’ve gotten out of worse.” “No, not really!”
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“This I’ve got to see!”
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I wonder if “Lanthanite” is a synonym for “El-Aurian”
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Pelia knowing that being on the Enterprise means adventure is further proof that those ships are goddamn weirdness magnets.
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Gorn. Yes, it stretches canon but fuck it the Gorn are awesome we’ll come up with an explanation later.
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“For Nichelle”
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Overall, while not one of the better episodes, it still was a good start to the season. It wrapped up one of the hanging threads of last year (La’An), we continued to see some of Young Spock’s struggles with his emotions before he became the more-Vulcan Spock that Nimoy was in the main TOS series, and we got our first look at Carol Kane as the nutty new engineer. Overall, I’ll call that a win!
“For Nichelle”
I cried. I also teared up a little bit when Celia briefly channeled Nichelle early on in the episode.
Yeah that got me too.
@FormerGameDev @Continuumguy me too
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I think this got things off to a reasonable start, but it doesn’t feel like the strongest episode out of the gate. Maybe it’s because the show deliberately chooses not take on the cliffhanger of the last season in the first episode. Starting the season with only part of the cast undertaking the mission I think also makes the episode feel a bit slight.
It’s also a bit of a darker episode than the last season, but I’m not sure if engaging with the Klingon civil war aftermath is actually necessary in this episode. In fact, leaving out the Klingon stuff here would make it a bit less stodgy to me. I guess there is some curiosity as to what SNW characters were doing during the war, but it really feels like here, the only reason they framed this entire episode around the war was so that M’Benga and Chapel could juice themselves up with a substance that they never quite introduce before using it and Die Hard Klingons for a chunk of the episode. There’s maybe some M’Benga trauma, but giving the character another trauma moment where some (particularly Ortegas) remain comparatively lightly characterized feels…meh.
It’s probably all the Discovery elements, both in plot and in set design on screen, that make me feel this way, but I was hoping that Discovery would learn the best lessons from Strange New Worlds. This episode has me slightly worried that instead of that, Strange New Worlds may be learning some bad lessons from Discovery. That said I’m hoping things get better across the season. I thought this was good but just not quite what I wanted from the season opener.
